A game should be fun ... this has become just a chore.

[Gargon667]

I think it's time for Inno to admit their mistake... Don't worry, we're all human, we all make mistakes. But please do the right thing and fix it!

It was not a mistake, it was intentional. And I agree with Inno that a nerf was in order. But they being a company will never openly state it was a nerf, so they call it a change.

The good thing is at least they gave us the 4 in 1 to soften the nerf, but do not believe there was the option to keep the old tourneys. The nerf was certain to come, the 4 in 1 was the optional part.

 

[Sir Derf]

Problem - "difficulty now met in the tournament and the decimation of our troops", or to rephrase "decreases troops"

Reaction - Provide the ability to produce 3x the troops as previous, or to rephrase "increases troops".

Please explain how this "does not address" the problem?

 

[C-Nymph]

Problem - "difficulty now met in the tournament and the decimation of our troops", or to rephrase "decreases troops"

Reaction - Provide the ability to produce 3x the troops as previous, or to rephrase "increases troops".

Please explain how this "does not address" the problem?

Because you can throw as many troops as you wish into an encounter, but if the difficulty is too high, meaning the battle is unwinnable, the amount of troops you send into battle will not matter! Unwinnable = unwinnable, no matter how many troops you have or can produce!

 

[Gargon667]

I personally like most of the tourney changes, I have two major concerns (well 3 now with the latest beta change):

This is a city building game and building/upgrading buildings is commonly accepted as a goal of such games, hence the name, right?

1. Non-military AWs have become a disadvantage to your city. They make progress harder not easier, since the benefits are small, while the negative effect on tourneys is big. The best thing anyone can do now is delete half of their AWs. AWs that were useless before have now become outright negative, others that had small advantages have now become useless. To fix this problem, these AWs have to either be removed from the calculation or they have to get major upgrades, to make it worth having them again. We do not need to discuss AWs like Flying Academy or Needles, of course their benefits outweight their cost in tourneys, but the likes of the 2 Lighthouses etc. are impossible to keep for anyone interested in tourneys.

2. Progress in general becomes a burden rather than helpful once you reach sufficiently high levels of progress, due to the multiplicative nature of the formula. Yes each factor in itself has the potential to help you higher in tournaments/spire, and therefore should be included. If the the parts were added instead of multiplied, there was no problem, each part would contribute by itself and it would not lead to a runaway increase in difficulty. Progress would always stay ahead of difficulty. The multiplication makes it so that at some point difficulty will rise faster than progress to deal with that difficulty. this I find was the biggest flaw in the system.

3. The new problem added now in beta: A completely unnecessary newly introduced imbalance between humans and elves by allowing all 3 buildings to produce simultaneously. Humans have been somewhat better fighters even before, but most of their advantage could be compensated by elves upon completing chapter 15. Now this is impossible. Humans have now double the amount of high quality troops from barracks and Merc Camp as elves do (no high quality troops in elvish barracks. Solve the problem: Upgrade at least 2 elvish barrack units to become comparable in quality to human barrack units.

 

[Sir Derf]

Ahhhh, I see what you see now.

I politely suggest that your use of the phrases "difficulty now met in the tournament and the decimation of our troops" was an understatement to the point of a straw man to your own position. "Difficult" != "Unwinnable" and "decimation" (original or modern definition) != "no matter how many troops you have or can produce".

 

[C-Nymph]

Ahhhh, I see what you see now.

I politely suggest that your use of the phrases "difficulty now met in the tournament and the decimation of our troops" was an understatement to the point of a straw man to your own position. "Difficult" != "Unwinnable" and "decimation" (original or modern definition) != "no matter how many troops you have or can produce".

It would help if you would quote people when you are reacting to them, as now you are mixing @Joemork's and my reactions... We are two different people. I was only helping you (Sir Derf) see what he (Joemork) meant, as you asked for someone to explain it to you (and you hadn't quoted him so in my opinion you were asking anyone, which is why I replied).

 

[Timneh]

Of course the devs are listening, as they, believe it or not, want all the players to be as happy as possible for a successful game.

They have a damn strange way of showing it.

 

[Maillie]

The devs did "listen" to the complaints about the miniscule reward of sentient goods in the Moon Bear ... well, sort of. I was the vociferous one in Beta as 2460 Sentient Goods in an entire day just made no sense at all. Listen? Yes.

Then came the nerf to go along with it. Just when they decided to allow us to brew troops in all three buildings they removed the supplies from the Moon Bear. Who needs supplies when you are making troops in three buildings simultaneously? /s

Then they added a very small amount (generally known by the term "significant increase") to the once a day collection. I can now make MUCH less tier 5 in 24 hours in my new and improved Moon Bear than I can in 3 hours in my boosted tier 5. This is my regular tier 5 with an MM spell, and the significantly increased Moon Bear. The lower left of the 1st pic shows my 3 hour amount of t5 sentient goods. (12,077) The right pic is the new and improved Moon Bear t5 amount for 24 hours. (4350) Sigh

 

[DeletedUser7426]

Absolutely Right Nettromancer, as a medium player who really loved playing tournament and have been preparing to reach big scores as my big fellows all this time, this new absurd tournament format just have vanished that, I mean, yes INNO can elevate difficulty to make tournament harder, INNO can put mixed enemies so you have to deal with a new way of fighting tournament provinces, BUT THIS IS JUST MADNESS.
You´re only capable to get Enemy Squad Sizes beyond 15th-16th if you have lot boosters, if you get bunch of UUUs, Dwarven Armorers, if you got a Phoenix bird at 10th level, or several brown bears AND EVEN LIKE THAT, you´ll have enormous loses, and even with 5hr boosters, diamonds or whatever you could get from Spire the capability to recover from the loses in long run won´t be sustainable (as me and many other are facing now in Crystal tourney)... And all this for what? All this much harder and more expensive form of tournament for what? The same rewards as the old tourney??? This is unfair by every point you see it, no excuse for INNO forcing this crap in Elvenar.

@Muf-Muf INNO I am a constant diamond buyer, you can check all my transactions, but if you want to lose costumers, with this new way of tournament format you´re doing great.

hERE HERE ,LIKEWISE .when i loose to an all lt melee & lt range who have 2 x the squad size advantage and i use hvy combos and 2 dwarven armorers 2 unit strength and mage enchants the algorithym sucks .i also manually fight seldom cater.I hate unlevel playing fields Anywhere

 

[DeletedUser9214]

So when the community was asking for @Silmaril to the point of exhaustion and exasperation, they opted to elect two more forum moderators... I wonder what difference this makes?

Hearing bad news from another person doesn't change the nature of the news.
Or to be more specific, having two more people to ignore our feedback doesn't make it less ignored...

 

[Maillie]

Hearing bad news from another person doesn't change the nature of the news.
Or to be more specific, having two more people to ignore our feedback doesn't make it less ignored...

In all fairness, I might be frustrated with recent changes, but I can't blame the Forum Moderators, new or old. The new ones came in when the subject of tournament changes in beta (after release) was practically blowing up the internet with 73 pages, 1441 replies, and a whopping 91,326 views at this time. They can only deliver our EN cities' feedback, which I'm sure they're doing, but they can't mend any disasters. I doubt very much that they're ignoring our feedback.

 

[Herodite]

In all fairness, I might be frustrated with recent changes, but I can't blame the Forum Moderators, new or old. The new ones came in when the subject of tournament changes in beta (after release) was practically blowing up the internet with 73 pages, 1441 replies, and a whopping 91,326 views at this time. They can only deliver our EN cities' feedback, which I'm sure they're doing, but they can't mend any disasters. I doubt very much that they're ignoring our feedback.

We're really not

On a more personal note I've been blown away by the amount of feedback received for this change. I've read through all of these comments and can see i'm amongst passionate and dedicated players!!

You're all wonderfully Hardcore

Herodite.

 

[Pauly7]

This is my regular tier 5 with an MM spell, and the significantly increased Moon Bear. The lower left of the 1st pic shows my 3 hour amount of t5 sentient goods. (12,077) The right pic is the new and improved Moon Bear t5 amount for 24 hours. (4350) Sigh

The only thing I will say in the Moon Bear's defence, is that those 4,350 T5 goods aren't costing you any other resources to gain, so it isn't directly comparable to a manufactory, which uses population, culture, plus other goods to convert. I still don't want the bear. They would have to make it actually significantly better. If they doubled the population then we might be talking.

 

[Pauly7]

We're really not

Of course not, @herodite, but there's a world of difference between moderators reading comments and any of this being meaningful to the developers.

 

[DeletedUser7526]

We're really not

On a more personal note I've been blown away by the amount of feedback received for this change. I've read through all of these comments and can see i'm amongst passionate and dedicated players!!

You're all wonderfully Hardcore

Herodite.

You do see that people have been wronged, right?
When you run a 5 year game, people have not only invested money (expansions) but also emotions and toil ( AWs ).
It is a bit stupid when paid customers and hard work intending benefits are penalised.
Probably, Inno’s big mistake was thinking we wouldn’t figure out the formula by data fitting and hoped to get away with it. You underestimated us, as always.

 

[Herodite]

@JollyElf I've seen some extremely detailed responses and that shows us that you are carefully and diligently comparing the recent changes. That's great news for us because it allows us to feedback personal results as well as comments. We are listening

 

[Silmaril]

I am sorry to hear that the fact we have recruited two new Forum Moderators to the team has upset you in some way @Ephraim Heart.
As you can appreciate from our advertisement to recruiting takes time and we are very blessed a grateful to add more to our team of volunteeres here to better assist with the Forum.
I can confirm that all feedback is being collated and all is fed back to our developers, hence the changes you are able to see in the bi-weekly Release Notes.

 

[DeletedUser7526]

I am sorry to hear that the fact we have recruited two new Forum Moderators to the team has upset you in some way @Ephraim Heart.
As you can appreciate from our advertisement to recruiting takes time and we are very blessed a grateful to add more to our team of volunteeres here to better assist with the Forum.
I can confirm that all feedback is being collated and all is fed back to our developers, hence the changes you are able to see in the bi-weekly Release Notes.

No one is upset about forum managers per say. Thanks for doing your job. Good day ahead Silmaril.

 

[C-Nymph]

This is an excellent illustration of forum members saying A and Inno team reading B...

No one said that the recruitment of new forum members upset them, just that they’ve given up expecting it to make a real difference...

 

[Timneh]

As has already been said the addition of more mods is not the issue, all the mods can do is forward the feedback to the devs. It is the devs that are the problem when they seem to disregard that feedback and just do what they want to do anyway and not give even a tiny response to the feedback that they "are looking forward to getting". Do they not realise that it makes it look like they do not care about the people that are actually keeping them in their jobs ?