Discussion Winter Magic 2020

[FieryArien]

Interesting perspective. I love the shuffleboard because it gives 100% guaranteed control of what prize I get.
I don't understand how you think it gives less control than a random chance chest.

In the last rotating chest event (or one of the last ones - it’s hard to keep track when they are throwing events at us with such a cadence) I haven’t won the “1 relic” price. Not even once. Not because they were not in the chests, but because I avoided such chest. For some people daily prize (or evolving main prize) isn’t the sole goal of the event.

In this event hardly anything interests me in the board. It feels like disappointing clicking before finding the box I actually want. In the rotating chests I aimed for the “best for daily (or elsewhere the best for main)” chests, but not exclusively - I often chose a bit worse chest where (majority of) the consolation prizes interested me. Often I “won” even though I didn’t win (the daily).

 

[BluebellLadybird]

Mmm
I remember reading complaints about the three chest system, 4 years ago.

They won't keep everyone happy

 

[Deleted User - 1829734]

With the chests you can make a choice of which one you would prefer to open of the options, with the shuffleboard it's so much more down to luck of how many boxes etc you need to open before you get what you were after. Yes if you open all the boxes you will 100% get what you are after (daily prize or whatever), but that can use so many more keys etc in the process

 

[Killiak]

The shuffleboard eats up your keys at an alarming rate, for what is essentially a guaranteed daily.

I think the main complaint is with all the crappy prizes mixed in there. With chests you can at least choose which chest you pick, and know before hand wat your odds at each prize are. You can choose a chest that holds things you want, or at the very least do not dislike.
The shuffleboard will give you junk, no matter what you do.

 

[Sir Derf]

Now I understand..

"100% guaranteed control of what prize I get" = guaranteed to get the daily prize I want by opening up to 16 boxes on the day the prize is being offered.

Gotcha.

 

[Timneh]

To be honest I don't know why we even comment on things in this game anymore because most of us know that before we hit the first key on the keyboard what we say is going to make zero difference to what the devs do in the future. If we say we love something we will get it again, if we say we hate it we will still get it again.

 

[Sir Derf]

The shuffleboard eats up your keys at an alarming rate, for what is essentially a guaranteed daily.

I think the main complaint is with all the crappy prizes mixed in there. With chests you can at least choose which chest you pick, and know before hand wat your odds at each prize are. You can choose a chest that holds things you want, or at the very least do not dislike.
The shuffleboard will give you junk, no matter what you do.

"...at an alarming rate..."

25 keys per box. Really? How low should it be to no longer be alarming, let alone favorable?

And 25 keys on the first box with 1 in 16 is 6.25%, or about the 6% chance of the 26 key chest of the most recent Autumn Zodiac.
If you end up opening 4 boxes, spending 100 keys, you've opened 4 of 16, or 25%, better cost per odds than the higher chests of that Autumn Zodiac.

With overall odds to get the prize in the 200s of keys and worst case near 400, what is it you want?



"With chests you can at least choose which chest you pick, and know before hand wat your odds at each prize are."

One in 16 (for the Daily). then 1 in 15. Then 1 in 14. etc. Not that mysterious.

 

[Sir Derf]

@Timneh I don't know that they did it in response to our feedback, but I see this version of the shuffleboard as a large improvement over the earlier one. Removing the randomly uncovered Reshuffle greatly changes the mechanics and odds of the game. Removing the randomly uncovered Reveal and Double transformed a purely random game to one where you can employ strategy.

 

[Pauly7]

With the chests you can make a choice of which one you would prefer to open of the options, with the shuffleboard it's so much more down to luck of how many boxes etc you need to open before you get what you were after. Yes if you open all the boxes you will 100% get what you are after (daily prize or whatever), but that can use so many more keys etc in the process

This isn't the case. On average you will use considerably less keys winning a daily than with the three chest system.

 

[Deleted User - 1759805]

This event is pretty good if you want daily prizes (especially if it's just 1 or 2 variants). I've got 15x Goblin shops with just ~3000 keys. This might be a lucky case, but the worst cases are shored up by being able to use reveal/x2 combos.

But 3 chests were likely to be much better for KP/AWKP farming (big portion there would be coming from filler prizes).

 

[Pauly7]

I've got 15x Goblin shops with just ~3000 keys. This might be a lucky case,

Not even all that lucky. With the best strategy it will cost, on average, 3,225 keys to win 15 dailies.

 

[Gargon667]

This isn't hypothetical and it is applicable. These chests that I outlined (and it's not a proposal) is what the line up may appear like now if they brought that system back. We didn't like the prizes then, but they were 10 times better than they are now. Inno does not want to give us anything at all that we would like to win so there would be no possibility to "theme" a chest or give you something that you could strategise over wanting to win.

I'm not saying the shuffleboard is amazing. I would like there to be more choice, of course, but there would be no point in giving us more choice when they aren't going to give us anything that we want to choose. Within the parameters of what is on offer, then we might as well have the shuffleboard.

Yes, the strategy is limited, but it is a whole lot better than it was in its last iteration. We are at a point now where the only thing that we may want to win is the daily prize. In this scenario we are now guaranteed of winning that prize within a certain amount of event currency. There wasn't that guarantee in the last version of the shuffleboard, there wasn't that guarantee in the 3 chest system, and there definitely wasn't that guarantee in the Misty Forest.

So 375 is the maximum amount of event currency that you can ever spend in seeking out the daily prize. On average it will cost about 220 when factoring in the cost of shuffling (I haven't done exact maths). In the last 3 chest event, the very best average chance you could give yourself of getting that daily was 362 currency - and that was only if you picked the very best chest every time, which wasn't possible - plus there was absolutely no guarantee.

If we accept that they aren't going to give us anything else that we want except that daily, then logically how is this now worse?

If the problem is that it is just mindless clicking with no perceived options, which is just boring @Gargon667, then I agree 100%, but that's a whole other matter.

I disagree 100% the daily prizes are so bad I prefer NOT to get them. Last event there was not a single one of interest. This time the best is a 10 squad troop instant, which I can just as well get from the 2 5ers in the shuffleboard, so the daily is minimally better than the random stuff we pick up automatically, so in my book you can scrap even thinking about daily prizes. The grand prize is of some interest, depending on everybody´s preference of course, but this particular one is of little interest to me personally. Which leaves absolutely nothing when playing a shuffleboard.
Btw the reshuffle now costs as much as opening 2! presents (for no prize at all!). Before it at least was only a dud in the presents, so for having the choice to use it when you like it, you have to pay double the price.

And since you repeat exactly what you have said before I can only repeat what I said. The last time we had 3 chest system is not that long ago. Even though general prizes were already bad the chests still were acceptable good, in fact they were the best part of the prizes, when dailies and grand prizes were already meh. What you propose for chests has absolutely no base on any fact, nothing anywhere close to your proposition has ever existed. It has never been that bad and I personally would bet you anything you want that chests would not be as bad as you think. Simply because of the higher price they would have to contain somewhat better stuff which I then can customize to what I want. Those prizes would most likely be better than the daily garbage we get offered (like last time we had chests).

 

[Gargon667]

Just went back to the thread of the previous Winter Magic, which had the Shuffle Board with the embedded Reveal, Double and Reshuffle, and found the following



Here, the cost per present is half, all gifts have rewards, and early reshuffle costs.

Utilizing Intelligent Reshuffle Strategy, with an average cost of 253 keys/daily, this event is 228% as good at daily payoff compared to the previous Shuffleboard outing. Better strategies at about 215 keys/daily make it nearly 270%.

215 keys/daily means an average of about 7 presents/daily, where the previous shuffleboard 579 ribbons/daily meant about 11.5 presents/daily.


I wonder if Shuffleboard haters have given this version a proper consideration?

That event had an endless questline, so your calculations are completely pointless. No matter how bad the odds you could always gain far more from that event than from any event after that.

 

[Gargon667]

With the chests you can make a choice of which one you would prefer to open of the options, with the shuffleboard it's so much more down to luck of how many boxes etc you need to open before you get what you were after. Yes if you open all the boxes you will 100% get what you are after (daily prize or whatever), but that can use so many more keys etc in the process

The problem with the shuffle board is that usually there is pretty close to nothing on a board that I want. I can open the whole thing and get nothing of interest. Well I get guaranteed to be bored out of my mind picking up one relic after another... I rather open a couple of boxes and at least have a chance for something useful.

 

[Deleted User - 1829734]

Precisely. I'd rather open a chest and know I was getting one of four things, and I can choose which group of four that might be, than open a box and get one of sixteen things.

And I'm not always after the daily. Quite often I'd go for a chest that had a greater chance of giving me something else, because that was what I was really after.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

the daily prizes are so bad I prefer NOT to get them.

The problem with the shuffle board is that usually there is pretty close to nothing on a board that I want.

What would you like to see?
I had a peek at your city, and... well... it seems to have everything. There's just not a whole lot of room for improvement.

Also, you mention that you don't like the shuffleboard because of the prizes offered, but those are 2 totally different things.
If it was the 3-chest system with the exact same prizes would you like that better, and why?
If the shuffleboard had the exact same prizes as the chests in the last 3-chest event that you did enjoy, would you like it?
Lumping prizes and format together in feedback is very confusing.

 

[Pauly7]

I disagree 100% the daily prizes are so bad I prefer NOT to get them. Last event there was not a single one of interest. This time the best is a 10 squad troop instant, which I can just as well get from the 2 5ers in the shuffleboard, so the daily is minimally better than the random stuff we pick up automatically, so in my book you can scrap even thinking about daily prizes. The grand prize is of some interest, depending on everybody´s preference of course, but this particular one is of little interest to me personally. Which leaves absolutely nothing when playing a shuffleboard.
Btw the reshuffle now costs as much as opening 2! presents (for no prize at all!). Before it at least was only a dud in the presents, so for having the choice to use it when you like it, you have to pay double the price.

And since you repeat exactly what you have said before I can only repeat what I said. The last time we had 3 chest system is not that long ago. Even though general prizes were already bad the chests still were acceptable good, in fact they were the best part of the prizes, when dailies and grand prizes were already meh. What you propose for chests has absolutely no base on any fact, nothing anywhere close to your proposition has ever existed. It has never been that bad and I personally would bet you anything you want that chests would not be as bad as you think. Simply because of the higher price they would have to contain somewhat better stuff which I then can customize to what I want. Those prizes would most likely be better than the daily garbage we get offered (like last time we had chests).

Whether you are trying to get the daily or one of the other prizes doesn't matter. It's the same for anything that you do want to get.

As you say, I have been repeating myself, so I will try it from one last different angle.

You are right, the possible three chest items I listed probably weren't right as they assumed each one would cost a smaller amount of currency to open, similar to the shuffleboard. So would the following work for you?:

Chest 1 = Costs 100 to open
1 x daily prize - 18% chance
1 x mage battalion (10 squads) - 18% chance
1 x MM spell - 34% chance
1 x nothing - 30% chance

Chest 2 = Costs 85 to open
1 x daily prize - 16% chance
12 x KP - 18% chance
1 x IM spell - 33% chance
1 x 5% coin rain - 33% chance

Chest 3 = Costs 60 to open
1 x daily prize - 12% chance
1 x 3X2 culture building - 18% chance
5 x relics - 40% chance
1 x PoP spell - 30% chance

I'm quite confident that this is a reasonable consolidation of the shuffleboard prizes into a 3 chest system. Yes the prizes have worsened considerably since last time we saw the three chests. Perhaps this would work better for you. Yes, you can give yourself a bit of a greater chance of winning troops over KP, but on the flip-side nothing is guaranteed here, so you could still waste all your currency not getting the one you want at all.

 

[DeletedUser6472]

I went all in on Goblin Gift Shops with +3K of event currency. In my lucky city I got 16 buildings and in my unlucky one - 13 buildings (note that my unlucky city is...*drum roll* - Elven, of course! Humans have even better RNG set up). They will be great to substitute my Father Trees of Candy Canes from chapter 15. However, last year I went also all in on Trees of Candy Canes and had 23 of them in my lucky city and 18 in the unlucky one. That time I had +5K of event currency, because this year the prize that I wanted came earlier and I had less currency to spend on it, whereas last year Trees came at the very end of the event... The shuffle board this year offers greater return on investment in terms of event currency spent, it's just the filler prizes are dismal and this tendency of nerfing everything is depressing.

 

[Pauly7]

That time I had +5K of event currency, because this year the prize that I wanted came earlier and I had less currency to spend on it, whereas last year Trees came at the very end of the event

You may be happy to know that the Goblin Gift Shop is coming back for a second day at the end.

 

[Sir Derf]

I went all in on Goblin Gift Shops with +3K of event currency. In my lucky city I got 16 buildings and in my unlucky one - 13 buildings (note that my unlucky city is...*drum roll* - Elven, of course! Humans have even better RNG set up).

Wait, what??!?

Humans have a better a better RNG set up than Elves, in a Shuffleboard event? How do you picture this game has been implemented? That there is a pool of unpicked prizes, and every time you select a box, the RNG is used to randomly pick the prize from the pool? And that, rather than all the prizes in the pool have an even chance for both races, 1 in 16, then 1 in 15, then 1 in 14, etc, that there is a different weighting per race? Maybe humans with 16 boxes have 1 in 17 odds for each non-Daily and 2 in 17 for the Daily, then 1 in 16 for non-Daily and 2 in 16 for Daily, etc?

As opposed to how the game presents itself operating? Randomly shuffle all the prizes, and your choice of 1 out of 16 boxes, 1 out of 15 boxes, 1 out of 14 boxes is what drives your 'luck'?