DeletedUser6472
Guest
I'm not a specialist, but how would you explain that in EVERY event my human city gets more daily prizes than elven city does??? Do you know much about RNG? maybe you could explain to me how that is possible?
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Discussion Winter Magic 2020
- Thread starter anonglitch
- Start date
Sir Derf
Adept
How would I explain it? There are many ways I could explain it. But I don't have to. The usual way things like this are supposed to work, the person making the claim (as in "Humans have a better RNG set up") is supposed to explain/prove their claim. You have the burden of proof. The other person doesn't have to prove the negative.
If we're going to operate with speculation, well then we could both literally describe anything.
You want an explanation from me? I already gave you one in my previous post. But, I'll give you a couple more...
If we're going to operate with speculation, well then we could both literally describe anything.
You want an explanation from me? I already gave you one in my previous post. But, I'll give you a couple more...
- Elves could ignore 1 out of every 3 successful Dailies and rerun the RNG.
- You could be misrepresenting your observations
- You might not have equally followed the same strategy in both cities
- You could simply legitimately have had equally fair RNG implementations, and actually had better results from Humans versus Elves.
Killiak
Artisan
Yes. Really. My comment, and opinion, is related to the rewards you can get, and the control you have over it.
It's not about the keys per box, and it's not about lowering, so it would be nice if you could stop trying to make it about that and being disingenious about the intent of my post.
That said, the prizes we can get for our keys have, in fact, worsened. In terms of total keys versus rewards we can get, the events have been on a downward trend.
You can be contrarian about it, but everybody has noticed it.
DeletedUser6472
Guest
The point of my original post was about the better shuffleboard this year, than the previous. I didn't make any claims, it was a joke to go with my other posts about inferiority of elven cities compared to human ones. You don't have to be so serious, this is not a rocket science conference, it's just a game
.Sir Derf
Adept
Folks, I can only go off of what you write. That I might focus on one part of a larger whole, or maybe infer what was not meant to be implied, well, that's how communication works (or doesn't).
Killiak, you wrote that "The shuffleboard eats up your keys at an alarming rate", and so I questioned what would make a non-alarming rate. I think it's a reasonable response to what you wrote.
Regina8, if your initial reference was meant as a joke, I suggest its presentation was ambiguous in it's intent. Your follow-up, asking me multiple direct questions, allows for more room for misinterpretation in your intent.
Killiak, you wrote that "The shuffleboard eats up your keys at an alarming rate", and so I questioned what would make a non-alarming rate. I think it's a reasonable response to what you wrote.
Regina8, if your initial reference was meant as a joke, I suggest its presentation was ambiguous in it's intent. Your follow-up, asking me multiple direct questions, allows for more room for misinterpretation in your intent.
DeletedUser6472
Guest
*drum roll* was an indication of it being a joke, the other questions were out of interest
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Killiak
Artisan
You are disregarding the context of the post, and are derailing the focus of the discussion. Personally, I even think you do it on purpose.
My post is clear as to why it eats up your keys, because this shuffle concept gives you less control and insight into what you will be receiving while at the same time reducing the overall value of rewards. Not to mention the overall rewards have been doing nothing but decline through the events.
The focus of Inno through the last events has been nothing but reducing rewards versus the effort put in, and this event is no exception.
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
But it literally shows you exactly what you will get if you open all 16 boxes. 100% accurately no RNG at all, perfect control.
The only thing that can happen by chance is that you get the things you want before opening all 16 and then you can choose to move on to the next shuffle.
How is that LESS control than the click & pray chest systems?
Killiak
Artisan
I pick a chest, I have 1 in 4/5 options that I can see in advance, where I might like or make some use out of 2 or 3 of the potential rewards. There are 3 chest options, so I can narrow my choices down.
With the shuffle-nonsense, you get 16 options, with zero narrowing down, and no choice but to keep clicking to have finally get what I was aiming for. And to top it all off,should I be ever so lucky to get past 1 relic, 1 kp and 1 enchantment I get 30 of in the tourney anyway, and then hit what I wanted; I get to put down even more keys to get ANOTHER board full of things I did not want, but have a huge chance at getting without ever being able to narrow it down further than 2 known squares.
But you already know this. You are clever enough to know the limitations and problems with this type of reward system, so I do have to wonder why you feel the need to ask questions you already know the answer too.
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Sir Derf
Adept
Actually, it's really an interesting dichotomy.
With the rotating Chests, you have 'control' in that you get to pick your preferred potentials, but aren't guaranteed an outcome.
With the Shuffle Board, you are guaranteed an eventual outcome, but don't have control over how soon it will come.
With the rotating Chests, you have 'control' in that you get to pick your preferred potentials, but aren't guaranteed an outcome.
With the Shuffle Board, you are guaranteed an eventual outcome, but don't have control over how soon it will come.
Gargon667
Mentor
In general I would say this is getting somewhat closer, but I mean this is rather hard to say. I don´t understand why you insist on making up completely new chests? The chests have been rather constant with minor changes in cost and prizes. The only big change I remember was when they replaced time boosts with troop instants. I would say if you want to create the most likely chests would be to take the 9 chests from last chest event and reduce the prizes in there to lower denominations...without changing too much otherwise. Maybe increase the cost a bit if you think that likely. I mean costs are rather unimportant, because it always relates to the amount of currency that can be gained. If they make the event longer like this winter event we get more currency which results in more rewards if the cost per chest is the same.
There are 9 chests and your 3 would be the mid to high price options.
A chance for NOTHING is unrealistic, has never happened before and I see no reason why they would do that. Replace it with some garbage price like runes...
A3x2 culture building? where do you get that from? does that even exist lol? Anyway, there were never any crap culture buildings in any of the chests, i don´t see why they would add them.
Your daily price chances are relatively high, the smaller boxes all had 5% or 10% chance, but then as I said yours are the bigger chests where we used to have 15%, 20% or 30% (for 180 chest), they used to have them in 5% steps and I see no reason why they would change that either.
Anyway as always the point of chests is that I can customize, if I want to get troop instants I can pick troop instant chests and if I want KP I pick Kp chests etc. Of course I don´t get a guarantee for anything, but I don´t need guarantees, what I need is an increased average of getting what i want. I don´t care if I get 90% garbage as long as I get on average 10% of what I want, rather than getting a guarantee to get 5% what I want.
Gargon667
Mentor
You are talking about 2 different things as has been mentioned before. The shuffleboard is as you say, you get all the junk in there guaranteed. with 1 choice of reshuffling early. You have total control over getting everything in there. You find that good.
I am on the other side: i do not want to be guaranteed all this garbage. I want a higher chance for a few valuable items that I can choose over other prizes. The chests allow you to control what prize you get, by choosing certain chests which means you can 100% exclude certain prizes (by not choosing a chest). If I don´t want runes I can decide not to open a chest with runes, therefore I have 0% chance to get runes. Instead I can get a relatively high chance to get a troop instant or whatever I want.
The chests let you control (up to a certain point) what you get, there is of course no guarantees at all, but instead you get an average of certain rewards. The shuffleboard means you and everybody else gets everything at the rates predetermined by the game. You have no choice at all over what you get (now with the new system you get that tiny extra of choosing the reshuffle), instead you get a guarantee of getting exactly what the game wants you to get. If you like the prizes contained in the shuffleboard then that is the better option for you. If you don´t like them you are better of with a chests system where you have an actual choice. And no I am not saying you get 100% good prizes at all, but you can increase the chances of getting something you really want and you can exclude a few things you absolutely hate, the intermediate stuff will most likely be the same.
Pauly7
Magus
The whole point of this exercise is to demonstrate that people are actually disapproving of the prizes that are being offered in this event, not in the mechanics of the shuffleboard. My possible chests are not compared to how 3-chest systems were before, but to what they may look like now if this event's prizes are translated into this system. That's why I have a 1 x nothing, and why I have a 3x2 culture building - it's just a scaling up of the 2x1 buildings that are given out in the shuffleboard. (Actually 3x2 culture buildings do exist - today's daily is one.)
As an aside, and this is up for debate, I think that the reason we haven't seen 3-chest events in a while is because they don't want to continue offering the better level of prizes that they used to, and if they put out what I outlined above there would just be uproar. The shuffleboard allows them to downgrade prizes whilst having a chance at veiling that they have done so.
So yeah, there would be other chests at differing amounts, but I've just tried to give an example of three.
Once we're past all that, if you still prefer the idea of hitting that troop instant chest and giving yourself a better, but not guaranteed chance of hitting that prize then yes - you prefer the three chest system, and no further arguments from me. When you boil it down to just the difference in mechanics, however, I'm sure you can see that the shuffleboard, per se, is not necessarily worse for the player base in general.
Gargon667
Mentor
You are correct my city if finished building I have zero use for buildings from an event. I am 100% only interested in instants. The daily prize instants have been reduced to more or less the same I can get from chest rewards, sometimes even worse, which means daily prizes are of no more interest whatsoever. I am interested in evolving buildings, if they produce interesting things, so I do like the witch hut from last event, while the owls this time are pretty worthless to me and will most likely not get placed until they let us teleport evolving buildings. So the only thing left of interest are the direct chest rewards. And if you look at the shuffleboard you can probably see why i don´t like them. The chest system allows me to customize what I get and therefore even if the overall chest contents are the same as on a shuffleboard, I can make sure to exclude some I absolutely don´t want to get and I can increase the chances for some I do want. Yes I understand that is a very small benefit, but it the last little remnant of useful rewards. and the shuffleboard kills the last little bit. Honestly if they don´t stop that I will stop wasting my time clicking thousands of times. If honestly I can´t get more than a minimum of useful stuff, what´s the point of doing all this silly clicking? I kill 1000 squads of troops every week, if the entire rewards from a 1 month event is 100 squads of troops, I see no reason for the clicking. 10% of 1 weeks tourneys? for 1 month of clicking? Not likely.
Gargon667
Mentor
That is exactly the point. I want troop instants and very little else.
That I agree 100% on, the reason why they keep pushing this silly format so hard: it is because it is a huge nerf on rewards that is harder to spot than if they did the same nerf on the chests. Which is btw another reason why I prefer the chests, they can´t nerf them as bad as they already have nerfed the shuffleboard, or if they do they are up for an huge increase in bad backlash. Not saying that is a guarantee, but there is a chance at least, which there is not with the shuffleboard.
Twigjam
Spellcaster
I criticised the event because it's shuffle board again but I came back to say that you're absolutely right Pauly, it's much better this time! I've managed to get everything I wanted and much more building wise and some nice KPs etc. I shouldn't judge before I try something I suppose.
BluebellLadybird
Adventurer
I have hit the dreaded 'fight and win 8 encounters' which means I need to wait for the next spire to start and hope for the best there.
Killiak
Artisan
Putting a little festive flag on a pile of poo might make it look better, but in the end it is still a pile of poo.