1. Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?

    Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!

    Dismiss Notice

Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Muf-Muf, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. JackLuyt

    JackLuyt Scholar

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    I think you are confusing me with someone else! :)
    I never said 'unplayable' - I did 32 of the quests on day one, only with the help of a few Instants, no Diamonds. It is a very easy event - though rather repetitious and dull.
    But the artwork and technical execution is, as always, quite outstanding!

    What I DID say is that it is sloppy design work to copy-and-paste old quests that the developers have acknowledged need improvement - and which HAVE been improved in events subsequent to the Woodelvenstock model on which this event is based.

    It would have been so easy to make some minor adjustments to this set of quests...
    Though who knows?
    The design team have shown that they are open to listen to player's feedback - so perhaps they WILL make a few changes before the event goes live.
    It was in the hope of that happening that I made that remark originally!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  2. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Harder? Yes, certainly, but "proven to be unacceptable"? I disagree. Maybe some players want events to always be easy, but I don't.
    It was funny finishing the Halloween event in 15 minutes, but I don't think it was fun.
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  3. JackLuyt

    JackLuyt Scholar

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    I don't think that events should be 'easy' - though in fact this one is,
    :)

    What I DO believe is that Events should not interfere with your normal game, nor disrupt your city architecture; the two should be complimentary, not conflicting.
    There are quests in this set that force me to make the choice of either giving up early, or doing things that are not in tune with my chosen style of play (like 'over-scouting')
    It would be so easy for the event designers to give alternatives to these - and they have done it before, in events subsequent to the one from which this set of quests was copied.

    Another example: Just about everyone was overjoyed in the last event when they allowed Tournament Encounters to count for the event.
    Disallowing this is, for me, a giant leap backward.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    Timneh and m4rt1n like this.
  4. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Correction: just about everyone who wanted the game to be significantly easier was overjoyed.
    The problem is when this is taken too far and if you are just getting prizes for doing things you were going to do anyway, what is the point?
    Didn't we all make fun of the "everyone gets a blue ribbon just for showing up" generation?

    Scouting and clearing provinces on the world map helps your city to progress and become better. I see nothing wrong with quests promoting that.
    They are IMO far more logical than "Upgrade 4 buildings to level 4". Those don't help anyone outside of maybe chapter 1 or 2 players.
    Better would be "Upgrade 2 residences to your max level or have 6 residence at your max level"

    Rewards for making progress.
     
    Lelanya and JackLuyt like this.
  5. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Please don't try to speak for all of us.

    I, for one, like having options. So having a choice between Province Encounters and Tournament Encounters makes me happy. That has nothing to do with wanting the game to be easier (or harder). I'm sure I'm not the only one. So don't act like everyone wanted the "tournament encounters" option just to make the game easier (especially when some tournament encounters can be more difficult than province ones).
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  6. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Read my statement again.
    I did not say that everyone who was happy was someone who wanted it to be easier.
    I said that everyone who wanted it to be easier was happy.

    Those are 2 VERY different things.
    Well, I'm pretty sure that having options makes it easier, so it would seem that you, for one, like that it was easier...
     
  7. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    I did read your post. First JackLuyt said:
    Then you "corrected" that statement:
    Making it seem like Jack was somehow wrong and only those who wanted the game to be easier were overjoyed. If that's not what you were trying to imply, then you should not have singled out only those players and ignored everyone else.

    You are making a wrong assumption here - that having options automatically makes the game easier. It is possible for all options to have the same difficulty. It is also possible that when new options get added they are actually harder than the old ones. So no, having options does not automatically make things easier - though in many cases options at least make games more fun by offering choices and making players think about what to do instead of everyone doing the exact same thing (of course, there are some cases where options are offered just for the sake of having options, but that's a whole other topic).

    As I mentioned in my previous post, some tournament encounters can be more difficult than province ones, so having the option to do tournament encounters instead of regular ones does not automatically make the game easier.
     
  8. Lelanya

    Lelanya Shaman

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Some great points made here and I think we are not so far apart either. Sure it's easier to do tournament for many of us. It was great that new players were pointed that way.

    Winter Event is meant in part to keep us from missing our neighbours and fellows over the holiday season, and we get lots of time to accomplish the event
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  9. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    "just about everyone" was IMO an exaggeration from being in an echo chamber. I believe that Facebook especially overrepresents casual players.

    my "correction" was in making the statement more accurate. To do so I made the obvious connection between allowing tournaments to count as solve quests and an easier game.

    Come on man it's simple logic.
    • Adding more options cannot make it harder, right? Even if the new option is harder, as long as you have the original option, there cannot be an increase in difficulty.
    • So that leaves either no impact at all or easier as the outcome, correct?
    • Well if it had no impact, why did it make you and others happy? No impact should mean no change in how you feel. Ergo the result was not that it had no impact.
    • What does that leave?
    • Having options makes it easier, and having options made you happy.
    • Having it easier made you happy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  10. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    While I agree that "just about everyone" was an exaggaration, it is hard to tell just how (in)accurate it is. In my opinion your "correction" went too far in the other direction and I am honestly not convinced that your version is more accurate. For starters, like I already said, tournament encounters CAN be more difficult than province ones, so having them count doesn't automatically equal an easier game.

    (emphasis mine)

    Wrong. You are making a wrong assumption here.

    Like I said, I like having options - as long as they are meaningful ones, at least (if you want an example of options that are not meaningful - just look at all the Crafting recipes that let you make 5 Relics...). Having meaningful choices makes me happy even if they don't make the game easier for me (in some cases even if they make the game harder for me). In my humble opinion Elvenar could use some more meaningful choices.

    P.S.: Speaking in general (not just about Elvenar), this:
    is also wrong. You are making the assumption that the addition of a new option does not result in the removal or change of an existing option. Now in most cases this is true, but not always. I have seen cases where a poorly-balanced option was removed and replaced with multiple harder ones - but they were better balanced, more rewarding, and overall more satisfying. So yes, it is possible for the addition of new options to make things harder - though it is admittedly a rare occurance, usually reserved for when beta testing new additions to a game.
     
  11. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Yeah, I said that. Right there "as long as you have the original option"
    Where an option was added with nothing subtracted, the difficulty does not increase.

    Where this exchange originated was mostly for me about motive and if we are being honest, the players who rejoiced about having a second option were not simply happy that it existed. They used it, and it wasn't because it was harder.:D
     
  12. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    sounds like about 3 of you are debating your choices of words when none of us really write w/ the accuracy or technicality of someone w/ a law degree in the first place.
    so how about some brainstorms for new quest ideas? maybe some very difficult quests that are optional and not sequential?
    maybe quests that are slightly easier but randomized so that we have to play the odds and be prepared to complete as many different ones as possible? that could be interesting. instants are making things too easy for most of us.
    new quests could be...
    use 8 spells.
    sell a level 8 building (we can always rebuild. could be scaled to each chapter). :(
    sell 2 event buildings:confused:
    upgrade a wonder (easier option available for younger cities):)
    sell a wonder:mad:
    forge 1 rune
    earn 1000 tournament points
    build or sell 3 portal buildings
    win 10 fights in a row without surrendering?;)
    win 3 fights w/ less than 5% casualties:D
    win a fight w/ 0 casualties:p
    craft 2 items:rolleyes:
    unlock 1 squad sizeo_O
    collect 4 times from a factory w/ an orange spell on it before the time runs out (this would be a hard one for me):eek::eek:
    just thoughts. difficult quests could be declined. if we are lucky enough to be in a position to take advantage of something hard, then we can be rewarded well for it. someone mentioned how everyone gets a blue ribbon just for showing up seems dumb. i agree. how about adding some nice rewards for those w/ skill or good luck while still having plenty for more casual players to win?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  13. JackLuyt

    JackLuyt Scholar

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    I love it!
    Repetitive more-of-the-same quests are, in my opinion, dull and boring - and not really FUN - which is what events should be, I believe!
     
    yo momma love me likes this.
  14. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Necromancer

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Nice list but if some of them became mandatory without a choice there would be uproar.

    I do like the option you point to as a suggestion for double option quests

    For instance,

    Upgrade a building to level 8 OR sell a building level 8 or above.
     
    yo momma love me likes this.
  15. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    My dream for quests for years has been that they would remove the cycling quests and replace them with Achievement style quests like you propose, just not in any set order.
    Other crazy ones with a time limit would be fun too like
    "gain 100 loot" followed by "gain 100 granite" followed by "gain 100 ambrosia" and only by doing all of them within the time limit do you get the prize/achievement.
     
    Cerebros and yo momma love me like this.
  16. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    yeah, upgrade to 8th or sell an 8th would be cool:D. a slow option or an easy quick option w/ a high cost. make us choose between 2 difficult choices. upgrade a wonder or sell a wonder. we'd probably want to build a junky wonder first to sell it. those that were clever and realized that this quest could come up might have prepared and had a level 1 wonder ready for it just in case they got this quest. maybe everyone gets 100 quests? decline as many as you want.:cool:
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  17. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    portal related quests could be cool. it would be like winning a small lottery if you were in the right chapter.
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.
  18. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    For events, I always thought that adding a decline option with a penalty would be a simple fix for most complaints.
    The penalty would just be 1x or 2x the reward.
    e.g. if you want to skip a quest like "scout a province" that rewards 40 snowflakes, you can do so...for a cost of either 40 or 80 snowflakes.
     
    yo momma love me likes this.
  19. JackLuyt

    JackLuyt Scholar

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Here's a peep at the Winter Event.

    You are welcome to share it with friends, fellowship and neighbors who do not play on Beta.

    We do lots of newsy videos like this - watch out for them!

     
  20. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    the things i would most like to see are randomized quests.
    maybe 200 possible quests w/ only 100 given to us so that we can decline or accept whichever we want and have to choose which ones were worth doing? that would make it hard to prepare for each quest and we wouldn't be 100% certain that we will even get any particular quest in the first place. they could mix in plenty of old, generic quests too.
    i would also like to see 2 options to complete quests. for example...
    upgrade a building to 10th level (scaled to chapters maybe) or pay 8 kp.
    collect 20 moon splinters or pay X amount of goods.
    earn 4 wonder badges or 1 treant badge.
    earn 2 farmer badges or pay 50% of your capacity in supplies or gold.
    i know badges are for adventures but i mean complete the same requirements.
    some quests could cost too much time or too many resources for the reward. some wouldn't. it would be up to the player to measure the cost, time needed, and reward. luck and flexibility would play a big part in our success.
    it might take a bit of work to setup in the beginning but the random nature would save the game makers effort in the long run since they could use almost the exact same plan for each event and each event would be a different experience for every player each time. they might even sell more diamonds to players that don't want to complete or skip quests.
     
    SoggyShorts likes this.

Top