Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[DeletedUser1829]

I'm quite lost. How do I know what level/ring/era etc. I am and where I am supposed to be?
Right now, I am basically collecting coins, supplies, & manufacturing goods. There doesn't seem to be anything else that I can do.

Using the table I posted on the previous page look at your current research era and find it in the table in the era column. Then go to the far right column for expected provinces. Alternatively find your next chest to unlock for the next era and add 20 and you should be somewhere in there.

If I read this table correctly, we are supposed to have only slightly more than the required minimum.
That doesnt allow us much leeway.

In my case I will have to wait for approx 20 weeks before I am supposed to get another province.
Bummer.

Basically yes the comment was 10-20 expansions above the chest so if you use the chest to get a minimum and the chest +20 to get the maximum you will have an idea of the range. Ouch 20 weeks , the change wont hurt players starting today as they cant get past the "expected point" but it has a lot of pain for those past this point right now. They have mentioned the idea normally when you approach the limit is to focus on tournaments to meet your fighting crave.

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

Basically yes the comment was 10-20 expansions above the chest so if you use the chest to get a minimum and the chest +20 to get the maximum you will have an idea of the range. Ouch 20 weeks , the change wont hurt players starting today as they cant get past the "expected point" but it has a lot of pain for those past this point right now. They have mentioned the idea normally when you approach the limit is to focus on tournaments to meet your fighting crave.

The change hurts new players because it greatly slows down the first two chapters. I started on Beta just to try the new battles and multiple times I had to just stop all fighting for a bit until I unlock the next squad size upgrade, else I would be suffering heavy losses. Tournaments are unlocked at the end of Chapter II, so until then provinces are the main source of extra KP.

There's also the fact that there are plenty of Heavy Ranged enemies, and they happen to have an attack bonus against both Light Melee and Light Ranged - the only types of units you have for most of Chapter II. In that situation the best you can do is rely on numbers (and good terrain, if you are lucky) to overcome the enemy, which doesn't make the game particularly fun.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please note the below is actually what Inno is doing and can be confirmed by the mods (I am sure..) My opinion is below that, the first paragraph is fact and matches otherwise seemingly inexplicable decisions

Essentially Inno wants to restrict the capacity to play in your own way, as they believe that the game will be more fun if you have to strategize to get ahead. They are doing that by forcing the players to build certain buildings (MA, armouries, barracks, merc camp etc) so they know how much space you have. They then have further restricted your capacity to get away from their idea of a restricted game by making the battles harder, or require orcs etc. This matches with why they believe in the MA, as once the restrictions are fully in place, you will need to use the MA, whereas right now you don't.

Note, I think this is a terrible idea. I (now) understand why they are doing what they are doing, I can see the master plan they talk about. I also understand when mods say "balance" they specifically mean "restriction" BUT don't see it as a bad thing, as they believe that a fun game is one that needs thought and work. They are both right and wrong. Completely correct in that the driving force behind staying with a game is interaction and challenge. Completely wrong in thinking that restricting options is the best way to achieve that.

By restricting options, the player is forced to think and consider, plus when new chapters come out, it requires a refresh and renewed interest, which is good for both parties. The downside is that the player looks to see how they can get ahead (as is encouraged and good) and sees multiple ways they can do that. Until they are told they can't. Strategizing within a small ecosystem is always worse than strategizing in a large one.

Inno, you have made several mistakes.

• Not telling people this is your plan
• Making this your plan (for the above reasons)
• Not making it clear that the battle redesign was required to allow new troops and it is required for "the plan"
• Saying "balance" is required, rather than "restrictions are good for you, it forces more thought and strategy"
• Expecting people to like your plan

Ultimately it is Inno's game to succeed or fail, if they had of been upfront that this was their plan and how they believed the game would be the most fun, I would have left ages ago. At least be honest about what you are doing, then you will get honest feedback and not the rage you are currently getting.

I repeat.. This is a horrible, horrible master plan. No game ever has been better off with a smaller tech tree, or less options. Show me a game where a tech tree is not a tech tree, that people like. Show me a game where being able to play through it in 3 different ways, all successful, is a bad thing

 

[DeletedUser2103]

All the information I have relayed has come from community managers like muf-muf or marindor from different forums (here, US or beta). People are welcome to read the numerous pages to find that information. As the saying often goes "don't shoot the messenger".

My beta town has 48 provinces unlocked and I have won all but 1 fight out of 6-8 fights there, a mix of province and tournaments. It is slow going for me on beta as I have had to rearrange my town and strategy so I can produce more troops so I can take on more fights and learn. I have also had to research the extra techs that became available to me like golem and sorceress which I will need to win certain fights and need to build up those troops.

Now my win rate is stacked as I intentionally stacked it by choosing fights of a certain criteria that would increase my likelihood of winning, so I can increase my familiarity with mine and the enemy troops and thus increase the difficulty a bit at a time.

There are things I don't like about the update and I feel sorry for those beyond the inno expectation but I am determined to figure out how to work with this or prove them wrong with facts based on their own arguments which is the only thing they will listen to, or everyone stops fighting (note I said fighting not playing as they would have to expect people to quit over this but not expecting people not to fight)

Just one question, so you as an expert player that have tons of knowledge of this game and probably has read everything there is to know about the new battle system still have problems winning the easiest fights in the game. And you still don't think there is a problem with the new battle system. In a normal game everything would be really easy in the beginning and then they would add another foe and you learn to battle that one and so for. But in this game is not like that and they switched it from being not that easy to being really or even impossible. With doing stuff like making you fight battles against opponents that have big bonuses against light meal and rangers while that is the only troops you have at that moment.

So my question is why are you sucking up to Inno instead of seeing the problem with the game that actually exist atm? Is it because your dream is to be one of the mods, or do they give you some extra diamonds or what?

As it is now Inno is burning the rope at each end. At one part making the big players/spends leave and at the same time killing the fun for the new players. I mean how many of the new players do you think will look throw all the game to find that there is a link to a forum and then read so much threads so they understand that there is another forum with the prefix beta. and after that read throw all that forum to see that there actually is a thread there that has a link to a facebook post that has some info on how you should do to win the basic fights. And even if they get this far that post only covers the basic even if you read all the 20 pages of it.
My guess is 0%

So even thou you think you help the game by being nice to Inno, you are not. Every hour that this update exist it is making new players quit the game, so please help make them understand that this is a bad idea. So being patience is not an option and having to wait until part 2,3 or 4 or this update is not an option either since all new players have quit long before that happens.

 

[Valnad]

I'm >50 provinces short of the members in my fellowship who seem to have the most provinces unlocked.
My progess in the world map can hardly be considered "power gaming". I have focused on unlocking the tech tree rather than the map.

But I've done a few fights here and then and I also participated in most of the weekly tournaments. So I knew how to fight prior to the update.

All of that will end now though. I just checked the 5 zones available to me and choose the most easy of the 40 battles in total that I can initiate right now... only to be pummeled in the first round. My 5 x swords suddenly lost the entire initiative to 2 enemy archers and 3 mages. I surrendered as soon as I could and escaped with "only" ~40% losses.

Mind you that the setup of this battle was supposed to be working in my favour. I used the troops that are supposed to be best at countering a combo of mages and archers. When you get 40% casualties before you even get a chance of doing anything at all you might as well just quit instead.

My remedy for this new insanity will me to negotiate away e v e r y t h i n g.

And when they nerf that as well I will finally decide to quit. At some point, every adult must learn how to walk away from problems. And Elvenar is becoming less of a game and more of a problem with each new update they release.

 

[DeletedUser2423]

I have paid attention to the new design and carefully set up a battle today. I was against three mages, one ranged. L1 So I matched it with two sword dancer L2 and three archers. Archers are designed for the mages right. So I move my archers in first move (Difficult map). Then their three mages take out in their first move, two 114 size squads of my archers and half the remaining squad. Before I even get off a shot. Clearly I surrendered. That was over a day of making archers done in a second. I should not have lost that even by the new rules. Craaaazy !! I am so glad I held back from that 11000 diamond purchase.

 

[DeletedUser1282]

Sorry, inno, but the new battle layout is entirely FRUSTRATING! The number of troops is 1/5 of what I trained. The training is as "expensive" as before but trains in under 1 hour. Too fast! The troops have lost power to defeat enemies. WHY??? Elvenar was supposed to be a nice little relaxing game. Now it's turned into an American war game. NOT funny at all and not nice.

NB: This is a COMPLAINT (will probably not be listened to and moderated away)

 

[DeletedUser1282]

I tried some fights and got annihilated. So then, I experimented with the fights: I tried a Level One Tournament fight (I usually just pay to cater), and *just barely* scraped a win. If I can only just barely scrape a win on a Level One Tournament fight, something is seriously wrong. Stymying the rate of progress too by limiting how many provinces you can solve - effectively penalising your *good* players - really sucks. Do these people not know how good game play works? This game is not fun anymore.

Entirely agreed. The game lost its fun altogether. Just like forge of empires, inno have destroyed a lovely little game.

 

[DeletedUser1282]

First was that stupid Orcs and Goblins,I hate it!That was a big mistake from you!
Now this incredible mess with troops and provinces armies,I was waiting for you remove Orcs from the game and the problems with fights in provinces and the costs of negotiate it have a good attention from you,but no you just did mess up more than before.
When I did start to play Elvenar I really did like it,was some sort of a game I did look for.Unfortunately you guys did mess up too much and the game now it is more upsetting than I ever thought that could be.
Guess it is time for me to say Good Bye.You deserve lose players,hope others will quit too!

YES, thank you! - Well done for this post. I am nearing the end, too. And another thing: Why does this German company americanise everything? Would it not be interesting to have something from the far east or the Southern Earth's hemisphere? Sorry guys, you lost it, and it's good to see that I am not the only one.

 

[DeletedUser]

The new battle system is impossible. Everyone in my fellowship - players of all different levels/stages of the game - is finding it impossible. I've got all the squad size upgrades I can possibly get for where I am in the research tree and I am still facing squads 2-3 times the size of my squads, they do WAY more damage to me than I can do to them (even when using the strategy of which type works best against which type) plus the computer often seems to get the first go so they wipe out half my troops before I can even get a hit in. The melee units that are stronger against ranged units can't even get near enough to get a hit in on the ranged units before they are annihilated.

I fall into Mykan's "first group" of players who have more provinces than Inno expects us to have, therefore I will NEVER be able to win a fight now. But, as others have pointed out, probably about 90% of players fall into that group because the game requires you to get expansions to be able to get enough space to build what you need to build... and most people are going to do that by clearing provinces rather than by spending huge amounts of diamonds!!

So what Inno have basically done is trashed the game for 90% of their players. Cos that's a really good idea? :/

Am thinking seriously about quitting. If I hadn't already spent money on diamonds, I'd walk away right now.

Edit: I've actually double-checked and I have 70 provinces and have not long started Chapter IV... so I actually MEET Inno's expectation of 60-70 provinces at that stage. And I still CANNOT win a single battle. I am still being faced by MASSIVELY large squad sizes and being dealt much more damage than I am able to deal.

In a recent battle I sent a squad of 71 sword dancers (cos they'd already taken a massive hit and that was all that was left) up against a squad of 68 sorceresses... according to the new system the sword dancers are stronger against the sorceresses. What effect did my attack have? 12. I killed 12. I had a larger squad size than them and am supposedly stronger against them but I still only killed 12. :/

 

[DeletedUser219]

The new battle system is not impossible.
It is difficult, as it is not finished yet, there are 2 further stages.
In the next stage Humans and Elves will have access to the full range of Units that they need, and should find that a proper tactical analysis will improve their chances.

90% of players have never gotten much past the Tutorial, much less involved in the battle system. 90% of the remainder have concerned themselves more with gaining rank than developing their city. Rank is not an important part of this game as far as the developers are concerned, and I applaud them for that choice.

If you are seriously thinking seriously about quitting, please do. Don't just hang around here moaning about how bad it is, dampening the spirits of those who can see how good it is, even in its imperfection.

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh no, are the many many of us who are not happy about this harshing your buzz? What a shame! How inconsiderate of us to voice legitimate concerns about how this has affected the playability - and the enjoyment - of the game. How hard it must be for you to have to listen to so many people complaining... it's ALMOST like there are lots of lots of people who play this game and lots of lots of them are finding the new battle system to be completely unworkable.

FWIW I don't give a stuff about rank, I don't even know what the ranks are. I want to be able to enjoy building and developing my city, attaining new research and new things to build and upgrade and develop, and being able to battle WAS a big part of that, both in terms of the enjoyment of the battling itself and in terms of being able to complete provinces and earn expansions for my city, AND complete tasks that are battle-related.

Since the upgrade I now absolutely cannot complete any tasks that require winning a battle, I don't get ANY enjoyment from battling as I just get wiped out in a couple of rounds, and it is going to be MUCH harder and slower for me to develop my city and implement any upgrades etc as I am going to be massively struggling for space.

So tell me again how good this game is, despite it's "imperfection"?

 

[DeletedUser363]

90% of the remainder have concerned themselves more with gaining rank than developing their city. Rank is not an important part of this game as far as the developers are concerned, and I applaud them for that choice.

Just how do you know what people are thinking when playing this game? Are you trying to say that you have contacted everyone to find how they play the game...or do you just have a crystal ball? Most people I know are not concerned about rank, and you loved mentioning in another thread (Battle) that you beat those above you by staying when they left..showing you take note of the rank, if you didn't care at all you would not be commenting on 'those above you'

Those of us that are VERY unhappy with they current situation are allowed to voice our views, this forum is not just for those who want to say how wonderful INNO is, and just because we say that we are thinking of leaving doesn't mean we have to when you think we should.

If our posts are dampening your spirits...don't read them....or is that too complex?

 

[DeletedUser219]

It is too soon to judge the new battle system, it is not complete yet.
More units are coming, including Cerberus for Elves, which should do better against those sorceresses than the Sword Dancers did.

@Tikococo yes, you are allowed to express your views, and I am allowed to say that you are foolish in holding those views. And I am also permitted to point out that threatening to leave if you have no intention of doing so is less an expression of a view than it is extortion.

If you don't like that, don't read it. But it may be too late for that.

 

[DeletedUser363]

threatening to leave if you have no intention of doing so is less an expression of a view than it is extortion.

It's nice to see how open someone is to others views that anyone he disagrees is classed as foolish..it's a good job we all don't think that way..what a dreadful place the world would be

Extortion???? what planet are you living on, we are not threatening to leave with no intention, we have said we will if things, in our opinions , don't improve..that's NOT extortion, that's honesty.
It appears you would rather everyone that is not happy just leave...and you can play in peace and quiet...sorry, that won't happen, and it's not fair on INNO if we do, they need to know what players think of their actions...good or bad.
You were the one that doesn't like reading posts with different views to yours...as they dampen your spirits, I never said I have a problem with reading others opinions.

 

[DeletedUser]

...

90% of players have never gotten much past the Tutorial, much less involved in the battle system. 90% of the remainder have concerned themselves more with gaining rank than developing their city. Rank is not an important part of this game as far as the developers are concerned, and I applaud them for that choice.

...

Yeah, going to call you on the assumption. Also going to call you on the whole rank is not important to the devs thing. If you play how they want, that is 4 manufactories, AW, armouries etc, it gives you a much higher rank than if you play in a specific fashion, such as catering. So I would go as far to say that rank is an indication of how "well" you are playing the way they want. I am much lower ranked than others in my FS, but further ahead on the tech "tree". Inno wants you to slow down and enjoy playing tetris, I don't.

 

[DeletedUser2054]

I've been keeping silent on this so far, but have been keeping up on it. I'm just going to say, I'm in the category of those who are "right where they should be" and can't win a single battle, but I'm also not going to get frustrated to the point of fighting with anyone on the forums or threatening to quit. I just feel if I'm at the point where I'm going to threaten quitting then it's just time for me to leave.

I know the battle system is incomplete and I'm going to reserve complaints or praise until it is done. I just started focusing on different aspects of the game, and while my expansion has been slowed it hasn't been halted. I can't say I'm necessarily happy with every step INNO has taken, but I'm still able to find enjoyment in the game, just my opinion, take it as you will.

 

[DeletedUser363]

I can't say I'm necessarily happy with every step INNO has taken, but I'm still able to find enjoyment in the game

I'm pleased you can still enjoy the game, I have friends that still enjoy it as well, that's good, carry on having fun

 

[DeletedUser363]

I have friends that still enjoy it as well

I spoke too soon, the friend that was the main supporter of the change has just realised that where they are an elf they can no longer get anywhere, at least their human avatar is a bit more successful at the moment

 

[DeletedUser2571]

The new battle system is not impossible.
It is difficult, as it is not finished yet, there are 2 further stages.
In the next stage Humans and Elves will have access to the full range of Units that they need, and should find that a proper tactical analysis will improve their chances.

90% of players have never gotten much past the Tutorial, much less involved in the battle system. 90% of the remainder have concerned themselves more with gaining rank than developing their city. Rank is not an important part of this game as far as the developers are concerned, and I applaud them for that choice.

If you are seriously thinking seriously about quitting, please do. Don't just hang around here moaning about how bad it is, dampening the spirits of those who can see how good it is, even in its imperfection.

I like the voice of reason.
But this doesnt make much sense.

The next stages will not do anything for the current problem.
New provinces are at least 3x as hard as they used to be. New units will not solve that.
Especially since they are not intended to do so.

In the end it will all work out. But it will take a VERY long time.

I understand the need for change. No change is bad. But bad change isnt good.