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Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

DeletedUser1925

Guest
How can you say it will be cheaper if we will need much more units?
 

DeletedUser3

Guest
The cost per unit will be cheaper, especially for the upgraded units, since they will cost the same as the base unit. At the same time though, the squad size upgrades will give you bigger increases in your battlefield squad size than is currently the case. So while individual units will be cheaper to train, and in any case no more than at present, if you have a very large squad size, it may be that the total cost for a full battlefield squad will still be more than at present, but for most the costs will indeed be cheaper or about the same.
 

shadowblack

Necromancer
If I understand correctly, it will be like this:
- Squad Size upgrade 1 - 3 (3*1)
- SSU 2 - 6 (3*2)
- SSU 3 - 9 (3*3)
- SSU 4 - 12 (3*4)
- SSU 5 - 15 (3*5)
And so on. So the first three Squad Size Upgrades will gives less of a bonus than before, the fourth will be the same as before,a dn the rest will be better than before. So yes, we should have bigger squad sizes... IF I understood correctly the idea.
 

Valnad

Spellcaster
If I understand correctly, it will be like this:
- Squad Size upgrade 1 - 3 (3*1)
- SSU 2 - 6 (3*2)
- SSU 3 - 9 (3*3)
- SSU 4 - 12 (3*4)
- SSU 5 - 15 (3*5)
And so on. So the first three Squad Size Upgrades will gives less of a bonus than before, the fourth will be the same as before,a dn the rest will be better than before. So yes, we should have bigger squad sizes... IF I understood correctly the idea.

That is my understanding of the original post as well.

I have three questions which I think needs to be addressed as soon as possible:

1. How will this affect the current armories?

Will they add more units to the maximum training size or will it stay the same? Because if it stays the same, you just nerfed the Dwarven Bulwark, which I believe was supposed to be buffed just a week or two ago? :D

2. If everything else changes, why not multiply the current amount of troops each player has with the same factor as each unit type's decreased value?

I don't really understand the advice about us sacrificing expensive units now, if the enemy armies will stay exactly the same after the change? Which brings us to...

3. How will this affect the enemy army sizes in provinces?

Will they get bigger? If not, it would be better for everyone to just keep their troops. Especially if you have unlocked a few chapters already (which the majority of the players have, thus increasing their army size post-change).
 

DeletedUser2103

Guest
As I understood they tell us to use them now because they will be downgraded, so use them while they still have there full power.
And if you don't want to spend them, you probably should at least stop training troops the week or so before the upgrade, since you are basically wasting resources.

One interesting question is what will happen to the smaller players, they will be punished by the x3 squad size change (it breaks even at squad size 7 and gets to about 150% at squad size 12) and they will also be punished by have weaker units.
Lets say they downgraded the units to 75% of the current power then you will need to be at least at squad size 11, just to keep the power you have today. If they downgraded them even more you probably will need to be in Dwarves.
 

Tonton-des-bois

Illusionist
I hope I'm wrong and it will be cumulative as you are thinking guys ;)
 

Killiak

Artisan
I don't really understand the advice about us sacrificing expensive units now, if the enemy armies will stay exactly the same after the change?

Because after the change, people will need to train a lot more to keep up their number of squads, which you can accelerate for diamonds.
Sacrifice now, BUY BUY BUY later.


Cynicism aside, we only have 1 post to go on. I certainly hope we will get more and much deeper details in the near future.
 

DeletedUser1925

Guest
Remember InnoGames updates are not for free. Still another thing to derail things from Orcs dungs, broken runes code, broken neighborhood, broken basic quests, drone riders, mercenary camp...


Will you finally fix squad size of InnoGames squads or they will still be able to cheat with more units than squads allows?

Edit: Zanyah - 2016-09-01 - Edited disrespectful phrasing.
 
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Tiriake

Soothsayer
I don't understand why I need to get rid of my current troops..

But besides that I think that it's a really good thing that they finally started to re-design battle system.
 

DeletedUser1925

Guest
Also InnoGames will make them weaker so you will have to build AWs that boosts troops...

Once they "fix" (still ~25-33% GMs) neighborhood then IgNNOrance will drop help from 8h to 6h or less... so another AW will become more useful.

I can go on and on...

Edit: Zanyah - 2016-09-01 - Edited disrespectful phrasing.
 
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DeletedUser1414

Guest
i have 28 squads of Blessed Paladins and 42 of the scared priest am i know to just wiped them out ebcause they are useless sorry i just dont understand, this is the first time i have played agame like this so some things still confuses the heck out of me must be showing my old
 

Arjavh

Guest
One of the things I really liked about all the squad size upgrades being set at 12 was that this size was evenly divisible by all the units sizes. So for each upgrade you added the following number of units to each deployed squad.

12 - Size one units ( Axe Barbarian, Sword Dancers, Archers, Crossbowmen, Cerebus )
03 - Size four units ( Priests, Sorceresses )
02 - Size six units ( Paladins, Golems )
01 - Size twelve units ( Treants )

Now with adding multiples of 3 for each squad size upgrade you are going to end up with fractional amounts of units as your squad size is not always a multiple of 12. I think it will cause more irritation.
 

DeletedUser1353

Guest
I don't understand why I need to get rid of my current troops..

But besides that I think that it's a really good thing that they finally started to re-design battle system.

1 squad now will be worth less after the upgrade since more units will be needed for each squad then, so thats why they advice us to use the troops now when they are worth more. At least thats what I got from the post.

To make it a bit more clear: if 1 dollar now can buy 2 beers and after the update 1 dollar will only be enough for 1 beer then you'd buy beer with the dollars you have now before the update.
After the update you'd also "earn" more dollars which should make up for the bigger squad sizes.
 
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Tiriake

Soothsayer
1 squad now will be worth less after the upgrade since more units will be needed for each squad then, so thats why they advice us to use the troops now when they are worth more. At least thats what I got from the post.

To make it a bit more clear: if 1 dollar now can buy 2 beers and after the update 1 dollar will only be enough for 1 beer then you'd buy beer with the dollars you have now before the update.
After the update you'd also "earn" more dollars which should make up for the bigger squad sizes.

Yes, I understood that the squad size will be bigger and the stats for the troops will go down. Just how much are they going to downgrade the stats for troops, so that it would make sense to get rid of my troops now?
I mean the squad size will be bigger. So in order to fill it with troops, I need to train more troops. The amount of troops we can train depends on how many armories you have. Even if they shorten the training time, we still need to train longer in order to fill the bigger squads. So for me it makes no sense to get rid of my troops.
 

DeletedUser1353

Guest
Yes, I understood that the squad size will be bigger and the stats for the troops will go down. Just how much are they going to downgrade the stats for troops, so that it would make sense to get rid of my troops now?
I mean the squad size will be bigger. So in order to fill it with troops, I need to train more troops. The amount of troops we can train depends on how many armories you have. Even if they shorten the training time, we still need to train longer in order to fill the bigger squads. So for me it makes no sense to get rid of my troops.

I think they will just be worth less after the update so it makes sense using them now, but it would'nt hurt with a bit more information about the changes before going on a sacrificing spree I guess. :p

"Of course everything else around it will then have to be rebalanced accordingly as well, but this change allows us to balance the battles way better in the future." Not sure what this means, if the stats of the units will change or if its about the enemy squads getting bigger too or both.
 

shadowblack

Necromancer
The new strengths and weaknesses are going to take some time getting used to. Some of the changed are pretty major:
- Until now Heavy Ranged was strong against Heavy Melee, but now Heavy Ranged will be WEAK against Heavy Melee
- Currently Light Ranged is useless against Mages. Under the new system Light Ranged will be strong against Mages
- Light Melee goes from being strong against Heavy Ranged to being weak against Heavy Ranged

Depending on the new unit stats and unit bonuses this might finally make Light Ranged units useful...
 

Arjavh

Guest
Depending on the new unit stats and unit bonuses this might finally make Light Ranged units useful...

I agree, light ranged units were the ones that were very useful initially but gradually seemed to get too weak to be worthwhile fairly early on. As you pointed out, it will really come down to how/if the stats of the units are re-balanced . If the re-balance helps them in addition to having a Ancient Wonder that buffs them in Chapter 3 they might make a comeback for me.

I do like the idea of each unit having two units that they are good against and two units they are weak against. The only negative for me is that the humans have two light melee units and no heavy ranged unit. I always liked my Elven city a bit better for fighting as I really liked the golems, but the more I played my human city I did find the speed of the cerebus to be helpful in weakening opponents with spellcasters, mortars, archers. And they were cheap enough to replace quickly.
 

Valnad

Spellcaster
Why is everyone dead sure on the troops having weaker stats after this change? Did I miss that piece of information somewhere in the announcement?

IF the stats stay exactly the same, it makes no sense at all to just waste troops now for the sake of "getting more power" out of them. If we get bigger armies after the update, we'll need more troops anyway. Wasting a resource just because it will or might be worth less in the future is still wasting. If you keep it, you will still be able to use it whenever you want and/or need it.

Even if my troops will not be as effective later as they are now, there may not be any scenarios in which fighting with them is a good option right now. In fact, that is usually the case, aside from the tournaments (where your troops actually stand a chance of winning the battles). So I'll take my chances and post-change I will have more troops to being with, albeit they might be weaker versions.
 

Arjavh

Guest
I don't think there is any reason to waste your current units. I would just continue to play normally at this point. Especially as these changes are weeks away, at best. The only thing they are really saying is that the advanced units will become 'cheaper' on a per unit basis as they say they are no longer going to be increasing the per unit cost as they go from sword dancer I to sword dancer II to sword acrobat. This would lead me to think that you may not want to build a whole bunch more advanced units when the implementation is imminent as the advanced unit's cost will be lower than before.
 
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