Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[DeletedUser1829]

So now we can only reach the rune shard level of tournaments if we are one of the select few who - in a non fighting based game - have spent copious time studying and practicing the battle system in minute detail AND are at the stage of the game as regards expansions Inno desires, and that = the battle system being "more fun" and accessible to all?

With the difficulty of the last tournament round at 1.8 to 1 I expect only skilled fighters will achieve that. It is feasible to negotiate to that final round in a few provinces each week, there is a level of learning the catering system when it comes to tournaments to maximise your goods investment. People have had some success with auto-fights in tournaments using the key province unit but it is still early days as far as strategy goes.

Tournament fights wont be impacted by your province scouting (to our knowledge) as the ratio is fixed for each star level. Inno have stated this is the source of fighting designed for those who wish to do this while they wait for provinces

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, to be fair, I think they actually said "easier to understand" you know, because of the battle pentagon thingy. Easier to know which unit to use against which enemies.

I thought it was easy to understand before tbh. I doubt anyone who struggled with the previous battle design will be more successful or more interested in it now.

With the difficulty of the last tournament round at 1.8 to 1 I expect only skilled fighters will achieve that. It is feasible to negotiate to that final round in a few provinces each week, there is a level of learning the catering system when it comes to tournaments to maximise your goods investment. People have had some success with auto-fights in tournaments using the key province unit but it is still early days as far as strategy goes.

Tournament fights wont be impacted by your province scouting (to our knowledge) as the ratio is fixed for each star level. Inno have stated this is the source of fighting designed for those who wish to do this while they wait for provinces

Indeed, if sticking to max 3 provinces, once could get to the end of them by negotiating. I personally cannot get to the end of any by fighting. As I understood it, tournaments are also scaled in accordance with provinces conquered, so that would mean if you are "too far", the tournaments will also be more difficult. I can't remember who said that or where though.

However, shouldn't fighting be possible for everyone OR shouldn't it at least be described as a system that only a select few can employ with success (as opposed to "balanced", "easier to understand" and "fun")? And if it's going to be impossible for a large number of players, should they be forced to build military buildings? The orc slave spawning armoury could have been an ambassador spawning embassy, for instance.

 

[DeletedUser363]

Tournament fights wont be impacted by your province scouting (to our knowledge) as the ratio is fixed for each star level. Inno have stated this is the source of fighting designed for those who wish to do this while they wait for provinces

If this was the case, why am I now unable to win even more than a couple of first level tournament fights since the update, yet I could win every one I tried before?

 

[DeletedUser]

If this was the case, why am I now unable to win even more than a couple of first level tournament fights since the update, yet I could win evry one I tried before?

Same for me. If this is what the new fighting system is to be like, I will simply no longer bother with it at all. Too bad I need lumbering armouries to negotiate ...

 

[DeletedUser]

Same for me. If this is what the new fighting system is to be like, I will simply no longer bother with it at all. Too bad I need lumbering armouries to negotiate ...

And by too bad, you mean "It really annoys me that I have to have these useless buildings"?

 

[DeletedUser2707]

One other thing, I can assure you that once new players come and see there is no way to have an enjoyable fight they will leave before they get to involved. As I said previously I started playing on the other server and you can win a little in the first areas but I just did one fight maxed out troop capacity and fighting just one type of fighter and yes I did use the right troops to attack and I lost them easily anyway, so yes its completely useless fighting anymore.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

One other thing, I can assure you that once new players come and see there is no way to have an enjoyable fight they will leave before they get to involved. As I said previously I started playing on the other server and you can win a little in the first areas but I just did one fight maxed out troop capacity and fighting just one type of fighter and yes I did use the right troops to attack and I lost them easily anyway, so yes its completely useless fighting anymore.

Fighting is not that difficult in a new town, even using auto-fight, if you have knowledge. The biggest issue is a new player lacks the knowledge required to know how to work the scout to their advantage, which is almost more important then any fight knowledge at the start. This has been raised and Marindor has mentioned that the devs are watching this carefully with tweaks expected in 1.17 to address the concerns in this area.

 

[DeletedUser2707]

Fighting is not that difficult in a new town, even using auto-fight, if you have knowledge. The biggest issue is a new player lacks the knowledge required to know how to work the scout to their advantage, which is almost more important then any fight knowledge at the start. This has been raised and Marindor has mentioned that the devs are watching this carefully with tweaks expected in 1.17 to address the concerns in this area.

Not sure if you were saying I was a new player and didn't know how to fight or not but I can say I am well into the second last stage on my main server and I can without doubt say fighting sux now.

 

[DeletedUser363]

The biggest issue is a new player lacks the knowledge required to know how to work the scout to their advantage, which is almost more important then any fight knowledge at the start.

There was no need for anyone to know how to 'scout to their advantage' until these recent changes.

 

[DeletedUser2717]

Hi there. I never complain about any bug or any change but i have a question. Is just me getting older and not capable to fight or troops like paladins full upgraded and wander like sanctuary +7 cant help me to pas troops in tournaments with auto or no not even close to rune reword?
I thought paladins (humans) and mags are the top, they change them in ordinary barbarian that use more space?

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Hi there. I never complain about any bug or any change but i have a question. Is just me getting older and not capable to fight or troops like paladins full upgraded and wander like sanctuary +7 cant help me to pas troops in tournaments with auto or no not even close to rune reword?
I thought paladins (humans) and mags are the top, they change them in ordinary barbarian that use more space?

Each troop now has units it is strong and weak against. To auto-fight the current tournament you need mostly priests. you need to understand which units are best against each other to determine the right combination. Paladins are good against heavy range so they do have a role in this tournament.

Not sure if you were saying I was a new player and didn't know how to fight or not but I can say I am well into the second last stage on my main server and I can without doubt say fighting sux now.

Sorry I worded my prior post poorly it was not meant to be a comment about your fighting. I was offering a different perspective/experience where even with the AI it is possible to win fights in the early game. The scouting is a major factor at the start now and it shouldn't be that critical to your success or failure when you are brand new. Several of us have been pushing this and similar points on beta.

 

[DeletedUser]

Elvenar is probably milling with baffled players like dinablaster, who just play and do not engage in the forum.

 

[Valnad]

Elvenar is probably milling with baffled players like dinablaster, who just play and do not engage in the forum.

It's not much to engage with. We're practially using it as a social club for disgruntled players. I don't blame the forum staff for the state of the forum, they're basically doing charity work with their hands tied behind their backs. I know, because I've been in their shoes myself once.

A forum for a game like Elvenar still has a great potential of bridging the gap between the developers and the players. But that requires the dev team to have at least a mild interest of what the players think of the game.

 

[DeletedUser1106]

I am at a loss in the game now.
I used to win the majority of the battles that I faced and used negotiate when I felt that I did not have the troops needed.
I have won battles in the new system but at huge losses of the troops that I have placed on the battlefield using the pentagon as a guide. The majority of battles I have lost.
One thing I have noticed is that the humans do not have a heavy ranged unit. This immediately puts humans at a disadvantage in a battle as you do not have a unit that is really effective against the light ranged units.....light melee usually having a slim chance of defeating them due to the high numbers of light ranged appearing on the battlefield and the light melee units not being able to get close enough to the light ranged because of obstacles in the battlefield before being wiped out.
I am hoping with the introduction of the bomber to the human troops that this will make the battles, at least, possible to win.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

One thing I have noticed is that the humans do not have a heavy ranged unit. This immediately puts humans at a disadvantage in a battle as you do not have a unit that is really effective against the light ranged units.....light melee usually having a slim chance of defeating them due to the high numbers of light ranged appearing on the battlefield and the light melee units not being able to get close enough to the light ranged because of obstacles in the battlefield before being wiped out.
I am hoping with the introduction of the bomber to the human troops that this will make the battles, at least, possible to win.

Humans have a distinct disadvantage currently because of this. I look forward to the new update to even this out. I have wondered if the light melee units need a buff as their targets have high range and mobility and are usually paired with something that can massacre light melee, by the time you catch them (if you do) you have 3 troops left.

 

[Aisling1]

I still have an open quest... fight and win encounters... a fortnight later - and can't, the odds in all open provinces are far to high against me - meanwhile I have spent so much resources on armouries and units that I don't have tier II goods yet to cater for encounters and I can't expand to upgrade for population and manufactories without buying with diamonds.... if the fights aren't winnable, we beginners will just give up. (ARYNDELL, human). I started in Aryndell hoping to learn to fight and bring that experience with me to my bigger town in Winyandor,

In Winyandor, I can only fight about half of the encounters in the first round of the first tournament province, and I have conquered over 70 provinces... - so again, unless it's one of my boosted or I'm in serious need of relics, I don't engage in the tournaments. There's no incentive so far to learn to fight...

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

No idea how the new fight system is considered better. Only a modest 267 provinces completed.
Im facing 2297 vs my pathethic 906. taking in over 20k damage at a goal with no way to reduce damage or reach the light melee units, the new combat system is encouraging more players to leave nothing else.

 

[DeletedUser803]

Ok, this game is officially F*****D now. I cant win even one encounter, let alone a province...I cant expand.... I cant upgrade anymore.... BORING....GOODBYE ELVENAR

 

[DeletedUser]

No idea how the new fight system is considered better. Only a modest 267 provinces completed.
Im facing 2297 vs my pathethic 906. taking in over 20k damage at a goal with no way to reduce damage or reach the light melee units, the new combat system is encouraging more players to leave nothing else.

AFAIK, the battles with orcs are the ones you are officially meant to be seeing only once hitting the woodelves, so 267 would not be considered modest by Inno. As I understand it, someone at the end of the tech tree should have a max of 220, so if you have more (which most of us do), you are "too far ahead".

 

[DeletedUser2658]

Do anyone win a battle after redisgn of battle techniques and army size except using resources?