Version 1.22

[Timneh]

In my area marble is in high demand, planks are a dime a dozen, steel is somewhat wanted but usually for a cross tiered trade. crystal is easy to come by and seems to be a throwaway commodity and there seem to be many willing to trade in elixir. My boosted goods are steel, crystal and elixir so using the trader is difficult if not next to impossible. I used to trade 2/1 as a 3* trade all the time but now need to back off from this due to dwindling supplies. I like to help my fellowship and even my neighbours but it's getting harder to do and still enjoy the game. I'm down to 19000 marble which won't last me long at my stage of the game. I gave up on the valentines quest when I had to scout 2 provinces because that would have taken me 5 days and I couldn't see me finishing the quests. I get 325 goods at a time from the trader with a level 1 starting price of 130k and no way to adjust what I might need and when - this is where the trader falls down imo.

The last two posts on this thread by Muf-Muf would indicate that Inno have realised just how much this change to the wholesaler is disliked and a lot of feedback has been collected. Now we need to hope that feedback has been passed on to the devs so they can see what needs to be done to improve it. Any changes are not going to happen overnight so it would be really nice if we could have the old wholesaler back while they sort things out but i personnally can't see that happening.

 

[DeletedUser538]

well it does not matter what we think the game will be played as they want it so no matter what is said they will make that call

 

[cwgiii]

In my area marble is in high demand, planks are a dime a dozen, steel is somewhat wanted but usually for a cross tiered trade. crystal is easy to come by and seems to be a throwaway commodity and there seem to be many willing to trade in elixir.

It may not be the case here, but having been a player for over a year, I have noticed that developments in the game itself shift requirements for goods (ex: Tournaments, Quest events, etc.). Shortages tend to be temporary. I have had to learn (and I keep preaching to my fellows) that patience is the real skill in this game. Individuals, and fellowships as a whole, adjust production over time as demand changes.

That being said, other changes in the game (Trader) have certainly exacerbated these fluctuations and made it far more difficult to recover.

Just some thoughts.

 

[DeletedUser1453]

Yes, I am playing elves. I didn't realise that the two species had an imbalance in goods. Most of my FS is Elves. I don't feel like I'm missing out, I can often help them in Tier II and III, but it really is Tier I we're all short on.

Thanks for the warning! I try to keep a cushion of 10k, but negotiating just one province will cut that below half!

there has been quite a bit of conversation about cross tier trading and less than 2 star trades, caused a bit of a stir. Personally I think it's a flaw in the game that the Dev's might just be waking up to, at present I have a ratio of 10 planks, 6 silk and 3 gems. across the board their yield is about the same. So the smart cookies out there are thinking, why am I using (ever more valuable land) to place large low yield tier 1 manu's when I can make a similar quantity of tier 2 and 3 goods in fewer factories for two and 3 times the produce and taking the same amount of time? .

So it appears we have a situation unfolding where more and more players are building less tier 1 and relying on others to take care of that. The more that happens the worse the shortage becomes, especially due to the trade price comparison

 

[cwgiii]

Very True Lady Woodland

 

[DeletedUser3034]

There is a point here, yet, those with all higher tier manufactories are now unable to get trades, and will realize they need to be making all 3 tiers. Then, the balance will re-establish itself.

Law of supply and demand at work. Folk will adjust to fill the gaps.

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

Changes made in this game often goes unexplained or comes with strong lacklustre taste.

Discussions between players and developers hardly exist. Hence the forum here often gives a vibe this is complaints page.

No wait, you signed up on your own free will. Same principle if you crash into a tree on the roadside and its the manufacturer or sales gallery's fault for selling you something you can't control.

That ought to sums up the way things are being run here

 

[DeletedUser1829]

there has been quite a bit of conversation about cross tier trading and less than 2 star trades, caused a bit of a stir. Personally I think it's a flaw in the game that the Dev's might just be waking up to

I don't think it is a flaw and part of the way the wholesaler works seems to add to that. I do think however players who are building only 1 or 2 types of factories and not all 3 tiers are contrary to the expectation the devs originally had. I assume they allowed cross-tier trades for the occasional or in-a-pinch needs. Another good place for it is human towns with superior residence prior to tier 3 goods factories, although they trade up not down.

So it appears we have a situation unfolding where more and more players are building less tier 1 and relying on others to take care of that. The more that happens the worse the shortage becomes, especially due to the trade price comparison

Supply and demand should sort this out in time. If people aren't accepting those trades the person offering them will be forced to change. If people keep accepting them regularly then they will continue.

 

[cwgiii]

Free (open) market.

IMHO

 

[Muf-Muf]

Thanks again for all feedback. So far, these are our updated lists of feedback and suggestions. Again, changes since the last time we posted them are marked in blue:

The most important, most recurring feedback we have received from you so far has been:

• The change is very much perceived as a negative one.
• It is no longer possible to buy small(er) amounts of goods, which was useful in some cases.
• It is no longer worth it to spend huge amounts of excess Coins/Supplies on Goods in the Wholesaler, since the amount of Goods to be gained from that doesn't compare to the costs.
  
• The reasons for the change have not been fully understood and/or accapted (so far?).
  
• There is no incentive to perform Neighborly Help on (all of) your neighbors' cities anymore.
• The Blooming Trader Guild needs to be revised due to the changes to the Wholesaler.
• The package sizes the Wholesaler offers now are not always the right size and do not cater to the situation the player is in (enough). It would be better if there is any way to choose the amount of goods you want to buy from the Wholesaler.
• There is a problem with not having (enough) active neighbors on the world map, which makes trading (too) hard and caused people to resort to buying many/most/all of their needed goods from the Wholesaler instead of trading with other players.
• Cross-tier trades are considered to be less good than same-tier trades, even if they have 2-star or 3-star ratings.

Suggested changes from you all so far (not listing the "revert the change" suggestion):

• Lower the amount by which the price increases after every purchase.
• Make it possible to buy different amounts of Goods at a time.
• If boosting trades between players is a goal of this change (and it is indeed one of them), then trading itself should also be made easier, to help that. Or, in other words: if we have to trade more, we want it to be more convenient, too.
  
• Improve activity on the world map, since many players are still surrounded by lots of inactive players' cities, who are not helping with providing available trades and Neighborly Help.
  
• Provide different / alternative ways to sink Coins and/or Supplies that are worth using, so that the Wholesaler is not the "go to sink" for those resources. Currently, there are not enough ways to 'get rid of' excess coins and supplies.
  
• Rethink the trader fees and how they impact beginning players in particular. With the Wholesaler changes, these players now may face issues getting the resources they need to progress.
• Assess how to advertise Fellowships and their importance to new, beginning players more/better.
• Lower tier goods should be available in (even) higher quantities in the Wholesaler compared to the second and third tier goods, because you typically need more of the lower-tier goods.
• Consider a free, open market.

Also, again, a statement in response to some of the posts that have been made since our previous reply in this topic:

1. It was mentioned that it's hard (or even impossible) to find out which goods you'll need next, and the Tournaments (negotiation) were used as an example. Yes, for these kind of things it can be hard (although over the course of weeks/months, you can definitely try to find patterns in this, too). That said, many or most of your goods are likely to be spent on research, and that is quite easy to prepare for. You can see which resources you'll need to unlock future technologies by hovering them in the research tree.

Again, if anything is still missing (or has been added erroneously), please let us know by commenting below, so that we can update our lists of feedback points and suggestions. Thank you for your time and feedback so far, it is much appreciated!​

 

[Aureliae]

Cross-tier trades are considered to be less good than same-tier trades, even if they have 2-star or 3-star ratings.

By some players, not by all. I don't. This is a social problem, not an actual problem - and is one encouraged by the constricted trading windows, and the fact that very few people "chat" on the forums, thus opinion is set by a few. If we had bigger trading markets people would see that cross tier trading is actually fine... people do it... You trade for what you need, and at various points in the game you need more of different things. So sometimes you trade up, sometimes you trade down, sometimes you just balance your boosted and non-boosted goods (which is all you are really doing with in tier trading).

 

[Timneh]

By some players, not by all. I don't. This is a social problem, not an actual problem - and is one encouraged by the constricted trading windows, and the fact that very few people "chat" on the forums, thus opinion is set by a few. If we had bigger trading markets people would see that cross tier trading is actually fine... people do it... You trade for what you need, and at various points in the game you need more of different things. So sometimes you trade up, sometimes you trade down, sometimes you just balance your boosted and non-boosted goods (which is all you are really doing with in tier trading).

Cross tier trading is personal choice, i don't like it and i will not take cross tier trades but i have no problem with people that do like them. There are people in my fellowship that like them and people that don't. I just don't like the idea of having to pay 1600 tier 1 goods or 400 tier 2 goods for 100 tier 3 goods as it can take a long time to produce tier 1 and 2 goods especially if it is a non boosted good. Smaller cities would find it harder to get the goods they need if they had to rely on cross tier trades and could make the players stop playing and there are too many inactive cities already.

On a diferent subject i think that a lot of people would like to know if any of the feedback on this thread is actually going to be acted on by the devs or just put to one side and forgotten about once the upset over the changes has died down. I realise that things can not be changed over night and this could be a good opportunity for Inno to improve communications and keep players informed about what they can and will implement following the feedback they have got from this thread as and when they have decided on what they are going to do.

 

[CrazyWizard]

please explain why it is unfair if both of them are 2 star, and especially if the cross tier trade is 3 star. those goods are 1:4 either way on a t1:t2 and its no different than posting a 1:1 t1. both are fair trading. If I am low on t1 and have a lot of t2 ill place a trade for t1 or accept trades for t1. limiting yourself to 1:1 2:2 3:3 is narrow minded when you need all types of goods

I'll explain to you why cross tier trades are unfair, i'll pick the most extreme example crosstrade so show you how unfair crosstrades are. it has nothing to do with greed.

1 elixer factory at lvl 19 for me produces 2149 exlixer every 3 hours. this cost me 20 squares of space and 3328 workers

1 marble factory at lvl 23 priduces 2523 marble every 3 hours cost 18 squares and 3317 workers.

To trade "fair" my 2149 elixer for marble I will need to supply 34384 marble.

Producing 34384 marble in 3 hours will take me marble 13.6 factories, requiring 245 squares of space and 45111 workers!!!!!!

The star trade only takes in consideration the cost in gold coins and hammers. it never factors in that you need a full size town to produce de "fair" goods for a single factory.
Thus cross trades are extremely unfair, and @Cregganroe is not narrow minded but 100% correct the ones that are unfair and greedy are the ones who use that 1 single factory trying to substitude all the space from the lower tier goods.

note: I like to note that cross tier trades for a few beginners might be helpfull to jumpstart there town, but some keep cross tier trading even after they have grown into a decent town. those are the greedy ones, the beginners are just the needy ones.

 

[DeletedUser702]

All complaints aside it would be much more playable if more expansions be available
and would have the same option as in FoE that buildings can be placed on top
of buildings to exchange same! Ofcourse there that thingy to make buildings use
different space to give players more 'FUN' lol...
My advice to other players is to have one or two spare games at the ready to overcome
boredom! Do make sure it's not an Inno game!!!!

 

[CrazyWizard]

It was mentioned that it's hard (or even impossible) to find out which goods you'll need next, and the Tournaments (negotiation) were used as an example. Yes, for these kind of things it can be hard (although over the course of weeks/months, you can definitely try to find patterns in this, too). That said, many or most of your goods are likely to be spent on research, and that is quite easy to prepare for. You can see which resources you'll need to unlock future technologies by hovering them in the research tree.

Yeah got a request for this quite often lately, as requested by someone of the dutch forum I have uploaded a table here:

http://crazywizard.info/en/tnt_negotiation_cost.html

 

[DeletedUser3097]

I'll explain to you why cross tier trades are unfair

Thank you for explaining- one thing I have noticed is that my tier 1 factories seem to take up more squares than my tier 2 and 3 ones, certainly in my human city anyway.

I'm planning to add more tier 1 factories when I can. I originally had a ratio of 8:4:4 but may move towards 10:4:4- depending of course on available space.

What ratios of tier 1: tier2: tier3 do other people work on?

 

[CrazyWizard]

currently: 9/8/7 but my tier 1 goods are going trough the roof atm. I had 16 of them before the wood elf change (16 marble, 8 crystal, 6 elixer) and in the same space I could place 9 wood elves ones.

It's now catch up for the other factories. kristal is next in the sorcerers and dragons chapter, en elixer will be dramatic for while.

 

[DeletedUser3097]

My best city is just entering Chapter 6: Dwarves so looks like I'll have a lot of changes to make! That is a very different ratio to my one.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

I'd also say, the members of your FS as well as how many active trading neighbors you have will influence the availability of various goods and should be considered when thinking what you need to build.

 

[cwgiii]

The star trade only takes in consideration the cost in gold coins and hammers. it never factors in that you need a full size town to produce de "fair" goods for a single factory.

A trade is worth what the market will bear, IMHO. A man walking in the desert for 7 days may be perfectly happy to part with his life's savings for a glass of water. "Fair" is in the mind of the beholder. Open up the market....