Version 1.22

[DeletedUser3034]

I will point out it IS possible for FS to "gift" a new player. I've not checked wht the limit is, but if I want to gift a newbie steel, I have him/her make a 1 for 10 offer (or whatever is permitted by trader). couple of these traded back and forth and you can gift quite a lot.

 

[Timneh]

The old Wholesaler was not very user-friendly in the fact that the amounts you could buy were fixed.

They are still very fixed but where we used to have a choice of 3 amounts we now have only 1 so is that not actually making it even worse ?

Many players would have to scroll a lot through the window in order to reach the pages with offers they would want to buy. Especially advanced players who wanted to buy goods in purchases of 500 at a time would have to scroll a lot

Scroll a lot ? Making a few clicks is not really hard work or time consuming and if a player wanted to buy the 500 packages they could just click the go to last page button to save a few clicks.

Trading between players is an important feature of Elvenar. Due to people buying all goods in the Wholesaler, this feature was under-used, causing in problems

You can not trade for something that is not there. If there is a shortage of a certain good or goods it does not matter how many trades you put up for it you will not get a taker. In the area of my city steel is sometimes short and planks can be rarer than hens teeth. Tier 2 scrolls are short on supply and it is magic dust in tier 3.

Currently some goods might be unavailable or available in less quantities on the world map. This is not directly related to the Wholesaler, but more so to the new Fellowship-based Tournaments we released some weeks ago.

Sorry but no. The goods that i have mentioned above were just as much in demand before the new tournament system as they are now. Obviously i can only speak from my experience in my part of the world map so it could be different for others.

Assess how to advertise Fellowships and their importance to new, beginning players more/better.

The problem here is that a lot of fellowships do not want new players because so many play the game for a week or so and then they get bored and just stop playing. That means that the fellowship members are left wondering if the player has quit or only sick or has some other problem that has stopped them loggin in. When i started playing it took me quite a while to find a fellowship that took small players.

 

[Timneh]

I will point out it IS possible for FS to "gift" a new player. I've not checked wht the limit is, but if I want to gift a newbie steel, I have him/her make a 1 for 10 offer (or whatever is permitted by trader). couple of these traded back and forth and you can gift quite a lot.

Wouldn't it be better if there was a much easier, quicker way of doin it though.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

• The Blooming Trader Guild needs to be revised due to the changes to the Wholesaler

Suggested changes from you all so far (not listing the "revert the change" suggestion):

Combine those to a suggestion i made on another forum.

Change the BTG so it doenst give a discount to extra cost of undiscovered players, but make it give the discount on the surplus cost of each trade.
so if a lvl 1 BTG gave you 5% discount on fee of undiscovered player, change it so it now gives 5% discount on the purchace extra cost (wich is 50% as well, just as the undiscovered player thing)

Also if the goal is to encourage us to trade more: just remove the fee of trading with undiscovered player. this also stops us from forcing to scout, something we allready do too much anyway

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Trading between players is an important feature of Elvenar. Due to people buying all goods in the Wholesaler, this feature was under-used, causing in problems. This also resulted in negative community feedback, which manifestated itself in statements like 'nobody is accepting my trades' and 'I cannot find the goods I need on the market.' People who buy all their goods using coins and supplies simply don't have a need to trade goods vs. goods anymore, which significantly lowers the amount of available goods and available trades on the market.

I do not really agree with this. Wholesaler was good for buying NON boosted resources for 2 reasons. 1. You need those resources. 2. You can use them to TRADE with your FS or neighbourhood players FOR your own boosted resources.

So it does encourage trading because we cannot buy our own boosted resources. EVERYONE needs to trade.

I'm planks so I can buy marble + steel.
My friend is steel. He can buy planks + marble.
So I buy steel, He buys planks and we trade. [Job Done] < Saves waiting for hours of production of your own goods when we have excess coins and supplies. This is the main benefit I found. This is now pretty much impossible unless we want to do silly stupid trades costing millions.

 

[Aureliae]

I will point out it IS possible for FS to "gift" a new player. I've not checked wht the limit is, but if I want to gift a newbie steel, I have him/her make a 1 for 10 offer (or whatever is permitted by trader). couple of these traded back and forth and you can gift quite a lot.

That's not gifting, it's manipulating the trader, and I've done it too with some crazy calculations for the most effective way to distribute fellowship prizes and the like... painful. You can't do a 1 for 10 offer. The maximum allowed is 1 to 4 within tier.

For those who don't know what we're talking about -> So if you have a newbie who has only put down their first manufacturing building and has say 30 marble, to most you can give them in one trade is 120 of say planks. Then next trade... hang on... it might be easier this way:
Goal: 10000 each tier 1.
30 marble -> 120 planks
120 planks -> 480 marble
480 marble -> 1920 planks
1920 planks -> 7680 marble
7680 marble -> 30720 planks
10000 planks -> marble
10000 planks -> steel

With the exception of the last two trades, each one needs put up after the one before was accepted (Reverse trading as zero star demands rather than 3 star offers, otherwise some other bugger on the market will take them.) Yes, you can go up tier and back down - not nec. faster.

30 marble -> 120 planks
120 planks -> 30 gem
30 gem -> 120 dust
30 dust -> 480 gem
480 gem -> 30720 marble (or 3 x 160 gem -> 10240 1st tier)
10000 marble -> steel
10000 marble -> planks

And of course there's no way to distribute coin and supplies like this. In a real fellowship environment you should be able to just click on your fellowship member, click gift, and then select whatever you want to give them from your inventory, and the quantity. Job done.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

Nicely explained, and thank you for the max ratio info. You are right, a proper 'gift' mechanism would be preferable.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Yeah, that argument might work, except that now the amounts we can buy are generally *less* than 500. I posted before that if they had changed it so the levels went up (so it went up to say 100, 500, 1000 at a certain level or whatever) that would be fine! That would be user friendly and appropriate!

Not saying they can't increase the quantity but they currently appear to have balanced the purchase to ratios of your main hall. Using coins roughly 50-60% of you main hall capacity can be spent using original values. Each tier also seems to have a set ratio to your main hall. Unless they bring in multiple qty options which I suspect is complicated with the increasing price mechanism that I can't see going away, they also have to be wary that the qty's offered don't price people out of being able to purchase in the first place. There have already being complaints that people can't afford the first round offer so they have to walk a fine line between those peoples issue and the one you mention.

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

The new update is very much disappointing. Yet even more disappointing with excuses being given that the amount of trade were fixed and you have to scroll through to find what you need.

It boils down to this: You need to play the game from start to end, experience the challenges at each level of the game rather than simply implementing without thinking. It was the same for the battle system. Repeatedly changing the icons and images does not improve anything.

Reinventing the entire battle system caused quite a few to quit since at advance stage, you cant do anything to fight & win. Offering goods is conceiting defeat.

 

[DeletedUser2897]

New wholesaler totally sucks, go back to the old version as I had a choice of what to get when I maxed out, now it is a shambles. If Beta liked it give it to them but give us back our Wholesaler.

 

[DeletedUser3124]

I will point out it IS possible for FS to "gift" a new player. I've not checked wht the limit is, but if I want to gift a newbie steel, I have him/her make a 1 for 10 offer (or whatever is permitted by trader). couple of these traded back and forth and you can gift quite a lot.

We do this to anyone in our FS who is desperate. Currently we're all desperate for marble, so we're "gifting" a relatively new player everything they need to upgrade their marble as fast as possible.

 

[Timneh]

The reason for this change to the wholesaler is to try and get players to trade more and buy less. Another problem Inno seem to have with players is scouting too far. As already stated there is a shortage of trading players in most areas (or so it seems from comments). In general when going to the trader there are not many trades for what i want and some of the ones that are there will be from people that i have not discovered on the world map yet so that means that if i take those trades i have to pay a 50% trader fee which i personally feel is unfair, so to avoid having to pay that fee i scout more to discover more players but that is something Inno don't want me to do because it means i am getting too far ahead of where they think i should be. So if Inno increase the trading area for players (a lot) and remove or reduce (considerably) the trader fee that might encourage players to trade more and scout less. At the time i wrote this there were only 2 pages of trades available to me and they were all either unfair or from players i have not discovered yet and none of them were for things i needed anyway. The last trades i placed took 4 days to be accepted.
This is the area that Inno need to look at changing if they want more trading and not pricing goods out of the market to stop players buying what they NEED.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

Crazy idea, but it would discourage horribly unfair trades and clean up the listing:

3 star trades posted stay 14 days
2 star trades 7 days (current norm?)
1 star trades 1 day
0 star trades - 1 hour ... long enough to allow FS to use them to help new members

 

[DeletedUser3032]

New wholesaler totally sucks, go back to the old version as I had a choice of what to get when I maxed out, now it is a shambles. If Beta liked it give it to them but give us back our Wholesaler.

Beta players did not like it so it shouldn't of been implemented. The fact they did implement it just shows that they are not bothered about players opinions and do not play the game themselves apart from running though stuff once. They will have a sandbox which has all the resources etc and complete the quests in 2 minutes, if it runs through smoothly they release stuff. They prob get 10 new players for 1 leaving and a few of those spend $£ in the first few hours and then leave as the game is not for them. Stupid spending money like that but it's true. So they would rather that than anything else. It's a business at the end of the day. This ethos I strongly disagree with as it shortens the games life span and the companies future prospects of attracting players and employees for it to have successful titles in the future.

Crazy idea, but it would discourage horribly unfair trades and clean up the listing:

3 star trades posted stay 14 days
2 star trades 7 days (current norm?)
1 star trades 1 day
0 star trades - 1 hour ... long enough to allow FS to use them to help new members

tbh although a good idea I would say it's pointless. If your trades are not accepted within 24hrs, your probably better off deleting it and finding something to use those resources on. If your actively upgrading or doing provinces you probably will find the next upgrade or province needs the resources your currently trying to get rid of. Better off scouting a province which you know will need the resource to waste it on.

 

[Timneh]

Crazy idea, but it would discourage horribly unfair trades and clean up the listing:

3 star trades posted stay 14 days
2 star trades 7 days (current norm?)
1 star trades 1 day
0 star trades - 1 hour ... long enough to allow FS to use them to help new members

How about saying why you think it is crazy instead of just "crazy idea"

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Beta players did not like it so it shouldn't of been implemented. The fact they did implement it just shows that they are not bothered about players opinions.

They actually withdrew the first implementation because of beta player feedback. Took them roughly 3 months to come back with a version based on that feedback.

They prob get 10 new players for 1 leaving and a few of those spend $£ in the first few hours and then leave as the game is not for them. Stupid spending money like that but it's true. So they would rather that than anything else. It's a business at the end of the day. This ethos I strongly disagree with as it shortens the games life span and the companies future prospects of attracting players and employees for it to have successful titles in the future.

If they truly ran the game like this they would have some very upset shareholders as it would destroy a viable product. Whether or not you think they listen to players you can guarantee they listen to their shareholders. Their shareholders will want a return on investment of the money spent on the game which means a long running and stable game for that return to be realised. That is going to drive them to ensure there is a stable long term game, which pleases me as I get to play and enjoy it for free.

 

[DeletedUser3032]

They actually withdrew the first implementation because of beta player feedback. Took them roughly 3 months to come back with a version based on that feedback.

And they changed it put it back onto beta server and it was poorly received once again so why did they not do the same as before and work on it a little more or just forgetting about changing it before testing it again and eventually puttting it on live servers.

If they truly ran the game like this they would have some very upset shareholders as it would destroy a viable product. Whether or not you think they listen to players you can guarantee they listen to their shareholders. Their shareholders will want a return on investment of the money spent on the game which means a long running and stable game for that return to be realised. That is going to drive them to ensure there is a stable long term game, which pleases me as I get to play and enjoy it for free.

(think i worded the original message wrong)
You do know why there is crap loads of gaming companies based in Germany right? All online games have a high turn over of players that's how they stay profitable, along with what others contribute time to time. The FS I'm in, most of us moved from another game and quite a few bought diamonds in the first few days and now we have 5/6 of those initial players inactive because of various reasons but that's how these companies make money especially from those who are impatient at the start.

 

[Timneh]

If they truly ran the game like this they would have some very upset shareholders as it would destroy a viable product. Whether or not you think they listen to players you can guarantee they listen to their shareholders. Their shareholders will want a return on investment of the money spent on the game which means a long running and stable game for that return to be realised. That is going to drive them to ensure there is a stable long term game, which pleases me as I get to play and enjoy it for free.

Do you really think that the shareholders would be happy to know that Inno are introducing updates to the game that are driving players away, and that Inno must have been aware of what the reaction was going to be like as a result of the feedback from the beta server ? The updated version of the wholesaler was still slammed by the beta server players but it still got released here.

 

[firerock]

Do you really think that the shareholders would be happy to know that Inno are introducing updates to the game that are driving players away, and that Inno must have been aware of what the reaction was going to be like as a result of the feedback from the beta server ? The updated version of the wholesaler was still slammed by the beta server players but it still got released here.

which clearly shows a TOTALLY ulterior motive to implementation, rather than the smelly nice face BS we were fed.

 

[DeletedUser3140]

completely disagree !!!
you made me hate the game.
the wholesaler was the only good and generous window in this game.
VERY WRONG CHOICE !!!

that's is really made me upset !!

i don't know how you did that without you even ask players ???

who gave you this right ???
how come that you control us?

This update which tries to encourage players to trade with other players by making the wholesaler less attractive with continual price increases will not work whilst we are surrounded with towns as below.

You cannot trade with a player with a town like this and I am surrounded by many of them.
It's this that needs fixing and not the wholesaler. The wholesaler works so why fix it if it's not broken ?

The weekly relocation of non active players also does not work because all that happens is one abandoned startup town gets replaced with another.

In fact you get a whole new bunch of abandoned start up towns every week!

Note that this town like all the others, is developed only to exactly the point where you are able to determine what 3 production boost you have available.

Does it still not occur to the game management crew that all these new start towns arrive just because players are looking to find certain goods boosts?
If they don't find them they start again with another town!

The abundance of these abandoned start up towns is the root problem which spoils the game for many players and suggestions have been made about this issue elsewhere.

Playing with the wholesaler mechanics to encourage player to player trading is not the answer.