Version 1.22

[DeletedUser1453]

Thank you for explaining- one thing I have noticed is that my tier 1 factories seem to take up more squares than my tier 2 and 3 ones, certainly in my human city anyway.

I'm planning to add more tier 1 factories when I can. I originally had a ratio of 8:4:4 but may move towards 10:4:4- depending of course on available space.

What ratios of tier 1: tier2: tier3 do other people work on?

Ratios are subjective and tricky to balance, I feel the main difference is Human cities are more productive but take up more room, eventually when you get way up there in levels (about 18 - 20) they do balance. As an Elf I had 17 plank factories until level 18 - I now have 10 + 6 silk and 3 gems. Whereas in my Human city I have about 10 steel manu's (not yet maxed out), they occupy a much bigger footprint and produce lots more steel than the elven planks so the amount becomes a bit trial and error, I have 6 scrolls and 4 elixir.

 

[DeletedUser3097]

Open up the market....

In other games I've played with open markets, players with more resources have bought up scarcity items (such as tier 1 possibly?) and offered them for resale at extortionate prices.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

I agree, players will adjust their production and the market will balance out. It , like any other economy, is a slow cumbersome beast, and will get there in time.it where

 

[DeletedUser]

The number of factories people have will depend on different factors - whether they use diamonds and so have more space, whether there is a lack of specific goods to trade particularly those they might be boosted in, whether there is an active neighbourhood.

My main city at the end of woodelves has 9,9,8 with a current balance of 3m, 3.5m, 1.5m, but my human city near the end of orcs has 6,5,4 with a balance of around 150k of each. The main city has had a lot of diamonds spent on it, but the second city has had few in comparison - both cities are with good trading FS/neighbourhoods however the second city is actively using goods whereas the main city hardly uses any at all.

 

[sunrae]

A trade is worth what the market will bear, IMHO. A man walking in the desert for 7 days may be perfectly happy to part with his life's savings for a glass of water. "Fair" is in the mind of the beholder. Open up the market....

Lets exchange the word "fair" for cost effective. The market can and should contain the widest possible variations to make it truly "free" but the explanation of the costs involved was correct.

 

[CrazyWizard]

My best city is just entering Chapter 6: Dwarves so looks like I'll have a lot of changes to make! That is a very different ratio to my one.

it's simple to find your best ratio, just check your goods. if one is constantly lacking beind the others you need more of that type.(or less of the rest whatever your prefer)

As for me, this ration was nice to be combined with the quests when harvesting my goods.

 

[Timneh]

In other games I've played with open markets, players with more resources have bought up scarcity items (such as tier 1 possibly?) and offered them for resale at extortionate prices.

With the way that prices increase in the wholesaler now, Inno are also charging extortionate prices for goods. They just don't need to buy all the goods that are available on the market first.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

Thank you for explaining- one thing I have noticed is that my tier 1 factories seem to take up more squares than my tier 2 and 3 ones, certainly in my human city anyway.

I'm planning to add more tier 1 factories when I can. I originally had a ratio of 8:4:4 but may move towards 10:4:4- depending of course on available space.

What ratios of tier 1: tier2: tier3 do other people work on?

This thread may be of some interest in relation to space
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/how-much-guest-race-space-do-you-have.5304/

Always be careful asking for factory numbers as not all factories are equal. Factories vary by race and factory type so 4 factories for me might need to be 8 for you. However production per square is comparable (nearly identical) between factories and race so if you look at the "zoning" for your factories you are then able to compare one city to another.

For a person focusing on boosted factories only 40 squares per tier and 8 workshops is all that is needed. In the thread above 40 square per factory or 60 squares per factory (bunch more workshops) are very common options. Also popular for those who cater tournaments more is 60 squares tier 1/2 and 40 squares tier 3.

As @CrazyWizard said though just alter what you need based on what your goods are doing. If your goods aren't increasing you either reduce the demand (less catering/negotiating) and/or increase supply (more factories/spells). This same principal goes for workshops as well.

A trade is worth what the market will bear, IMHO.

There is a lot of truth to this, if people were never accepting 2 star cross tier trades they would disappear completely due to no supply. The wholesaler change to me adds a need to keep the 2 star ratio the same for cost as people purchasing goods of different tiers to then trade are only spending coins/supplies so there is not time, space or population in the calculation. If you change the ratio then it upsets this balance and would really mess with the wholesaler.

 

[KermitsDad]

The star rating of trades as it is now is completely wrong and should be removed.
It serves only to make beginners think they are getting a good deal when parting with 1000's of tier 1 goods for a measly few tier 3.

 

[DeletedUser664]

The star rating of trades as it is now is completely wrong and should be removed.
It serves only to make beginners think they are getting a good deal when parting with 1000's of tier 1 goods for a measly few tier 3.

Couldn't agree more with this. At least for star ratings between tiers. I rarely accept multi-tier trades because the value assumed by the game is simply not valid.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

The star rating of trades as it is now is completely wrong and should be removed.
It serves only to make beginners think they are getting a good deal when parting with 1000's of tier 1 goods for a measly few tier 3.

And I have to disagree. Not with the cross - tier issue, that's a "to each his own". But, removing the star ratings would mean players can no longer easily move past those pages of zero star trades certain people fill the market with. Do you really want to have to look at every single trade and analyze it?

 

[firerock]

well in some sort of true full circle event, the reason giving in the beginning as to why the market didn't show all the trades was to 'encourage expansion', and now with the changes that have come to pass up to now, its all to stop expansion
So now then *elvenar team* what is the reason the trader shouldn't show all the trades, seeing the primary reason originally is no longer a concern?
(you also have to expand to progress at the start of each chapter, so expansion is clearly taken care of)

Well there are simple limitations, what if there are 400 trades demanding planks, that's a lot to go through, how about 1000 that's nearly impossible.
maybe to show them they get shown in closeness order to your city, again limiting a 'free market' to you having to provide both goods to reduce the volume would be required. I'd be ok with that.

 

[Aureliae]

The star trade only takes in consideration the cost in gold coins and hammers. it never factors in that you need a full size town to produce de "fair" goods for a single factory.

You aren't taking in to account all the additional effort, resources and game play that went into creating those higher tier factories in assessing base value of the factory itself. It's supposed to be the case that as you progress, your capacity to produce increases... that's pretty standard across many games. the 1:4:16 ratio does accurately assess the only variable in goods production, which is the supplies and coin required to produces the goods. Thus cross trading is in fact fair, enabling players to judge either by calculating themselves or using the star system whether a trade is of value or not to them. No one is forcing you to take a trade on the market - but the shaming and in some fellowships banning of cross tier trading because of mistaken beliefs like yours flattens the market, leading to people using the wholesaler, leading to the devs doing **** [Moderator Edit - do not use profanity] like this to try and push people away from the wholesaler and stimulate market trading...

The only thing that is not currently fair is the new version of the Wholesaler.

 

[CrazyWizard]

You aren't taking in to account all the additional effort, resources and game play that went into creating those higher tier factories in assessing base value of the factory itself. It's supposed to be the case that as you progress, your capacity to produce increases... that's pretty standard across many games. the 1:4:16 ratio does accurately assess the only variable in goods production, which is the supplies and coin required to produces the goods. Thus cross trading is in fact fair, enabling players to judge either by calculating themselves or using the star system whether a trade is of value or not to them. No one is forcing you to take a trade on the market - but the shaming and in some fellowships banning of cross tier trading because of mistaken beliefs like yours flattens the market, leading to people using the wholesaler, leading to the devs doing [Moderator Edit] like this to try and push people away from the wholesaler and stimulate market trading...

The only thing that is not currently fair is the new version of the Wholesaler.

[Moderator Edit- inappropriate language]
How is building a tier 1 factory easier than a tier 3 factory? [Moderator Edit- disrespectful response]

It's like claiming that a painting a house black is harder than painting it red just because the can of paint was at the garage instead at the front door. it's a different paint, but the same job.
Or claiming your tiny marbles (game) are worth more than the big one of the other kid on the field and he should trade it.

Cross trading is just like in any other game, high level players ripping of noobs and taking advantage of the weak and ignorent.

If you need the space of 13!!! towns just to supply that 1 other then the trade aint fair. (space is the most rare and expensive recource in game, since it's recources are limited, unlike coins and hammer who ressuply indefinitly) the other recource is time, but we evened that out in the calculation since both require 3 hours.
No matter how you turn or twist, a bend is never straight.

Sorry but if you dare to call the wholesaler unfair, but call 16:1 trade fair, even after I put down a nice and easy calculation to show it to you [Moderator Edit- please read forum rules]

 

[DeletedUser3034]

In spite of all the high emotions, a FAIR trade is anything 2 people agree to be fair. If I agree to trade a car for a dog, and the other person is happy with the trade, then indeed it was fair. If you, personally, think a trade unfair, don't make the trade.

 

[DeletedUser664]

I think what would be a nice addition to the trader window is a couple of filters on trade types. Like, show/don't show 1-star or 2-star trades, and show/don't show multi-tier trades. I think there's a lot the developers could do with the trader to improve it, and giving players controls over trades they can and can't see might help with all the whining

 

[DeletedUser3034]

I think what would be a nice addition to the trader window is a couple of filters on trade types. Like, show/don't show 1-star or 2-star trades, and show/don't show multi-tier trades. I think there's a lot the developers could do with the trader to improve it, and giving players controls over trades they can and can't see might help with all the whining

Write it up as a proposal

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

well in some sort of true full circle event, the reason giving in the beginning as to why the market didn't show all the trades was to 'encourage expansion', and now with the changes that have come to pass up to now, its all to stop expansion
So now then *elvenar team* what is the reason the trader shouldn't show all the trades, seeing the primary reason originally is no longer a concern?
(you also have to expand to progress at the start of each chapter, so expansion is clearly taken care of)

Well there are simple limitations, what if there are 400 trades demanding planks, that's a lot to go through, how about 1000 that's nearly impossible.
maybe to show them they get shown in closeness order to your city, again limiting a 'free market' to you having to provide both goods to reduce the volume would be required. I'd be ok with that.

Spot-on, firerock!

I figured the intention is to merely test out how slow should be now. No doubt this was meant to be off-beat game to begin with.
Likely their next game would be make it painfully slow

 

[sunrae]

I think what would be a nice addition to the trader window is a couple of filters on trade types. Like, show/don't show 1-star or 2-star trades, and show/don't show multi-tier trades. I think there's a lot the developers could do with the trader to improve it, and giving players controls over trades they can and can't see might help with all the whining

I think more filters would be helpful. I have opened more provinces in order to widen my trading base but it does not seem to have worked. I would welcome more traders onto the board and filters would mean we could have lots of pages of planks for steel or crystal for scrolls or scrolls for gems it wouldn't matter. If we had access to ALL our neighbours trades the filters would make it faster to find what you want.
I do think although the changes have been made to encourage trading they need to open up the world so that we can trade more effectively. I am surrounded by planks and scrolls which are my own boosts and have very limited access to marble and gems - why is this? I can only assume its because I cannot trade with every province I have opened but a selected few. Why?

 

[cwgiii]

I can only assume its because I cannot trade with every province I have opened but a selected few. Why?

I am only guessing, but my assumption was that you CAN trade with all of the cities you have discovered, it is just indicative of the number of folks that are actually playing the game and advancing to the level where they can trade. I may be totally off on this assumption though.