Version 1.22

[DeletedUser3103]

Your change is an example of Authoritarian control. You are attempting to exercise complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others to make them play the game you want them to play it.[/QUOTE]

WOW... So love this quote... best I have read thus far!

 

[DeletedUser538]

this is wrong....you should leave the trader alone now i will have to buY nonboosted building

 

[DeletedUser740]

Hi Inno

I don't know how you all came to the decision to change the way the wholesaler works. However due to this most recent upgrade I am about to lose half of my fellowship, many of them were already struggling with real life issues, now this.

The problem with these changes is that you think that the fellowship should be based on a fair spread of boosted factories when in truth this is exceptionally hard to obtain. This is why many use the wholesale. If you are refusing to understand this basic flaw than of course everyone is leaving the game. If players had a choice as to what boosted goods they were allowed to produce than this might bring some balance back. As everyone has already unlocked most factories surely in the MH there should be some options to change your boosted factories to ensure you can in fact trade sufficiently for progress in the game.

 

[DeletedUser3103]

well put Silvern.. x

 

[DeletedUser2311]

What was wrong with the Trader.You screwed it up put it back the way it was.Don't change things if they work.

 

[DeletedUser]

Actually just had this discussion yesterday The response from Marindor was as a company they are mindful of competitors and know they monitor what they are doing. As Inno is a business and has to report to shareholders they have to be careful about how much future information they reveal so as not to cause harm to the company. In that same vane as a company and shareholders they are not going to make a change like this that they know will upset many people unless they felt it absolutely necessary to protect the product and in turn the company. I am sure someone will twist this.

I found that thread on the Beta forum earlier and was really impressed with it, lots of calm rational discussion with Marindor. This is the link to that discussion which I think makes interesting reading https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/beta-how-is-it-used.7248/

I don't fully understand the changes but I think about the situation with my kids. There is a lot of stuff they want but I as a parent with more experience have a better understanding of things that are good or harmful for them. There has to be a level of trust between parent and child just like a level of trust between player and developers and I think herein lies the problems, most players don't trust the developers to know what they are doing.

Part of the problem is the reason/explanation which we aren't being given, in the words of that thread on the Beta forum saying its to do with "balance" means very little to us. I am also a parent and its usually better to give reasons instead of mindlessly saying "no", "yes", "do as you're told", ok it doesn't always happen first time but it does go a long way towards the relationship than just dishing out orders or instructions. I might have told my son that I wanted him in bed 2 hours before his usual bedtime but without telling him that we were going out for a long day the next day then I could expect ructions, and thats the situation we're in, we have the instructions which come about in the form of changes to the game without the information behind those changes.

 

[Timneh]

What was wrong with the Trader.You screwed it up put it back the way it was.Don't change things if they work.

There is a post on the beta forum from the CM there saying that putting it back the way it was is NOT an option because it was hurting the game and would hurt it even more in the long term if left the way it was but he did not offer any info on how it was hurting the game. At least they have a CM that responds to players on beta so they are luckier than we are on this live server forum.

 

[DeletedUser2886]

Your change is an example of Authoritarian control. You are attempting to exercise complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others to make them play the game you want them to play it.

ladies and gentleman ... and there we have it

@Mykan
"Currently many players get angry about cross-tier trading, I would be concerned that a person with a mass amount of coins could have a similar effect on the game as cross-tier trading currently does. Instead of posting T3 for T1 they just buy up tens of thousands of T1 goods draining the market more then it currently is.

Post your idea it is worth consideration, just try to think through some of the possible issues with it so it has a stronger case. Economics, greed and hoarding may yet be the biggest issues with it and human nature is a very hard thing to change. "

Human Nature? Greed? Cross trading is just buying in bulk imo. If you run a business would you make several tiny trades a wholesaler? no you just buy in bulk because its better management of your resources and time. Also basic economics...if both parties agree on a trade then its "fair" so it has nothing to do with greed. It's meeting a need for both parties.

Really heres my take on people whining incessantly about cross tier trades...its like two people in a relationship that's legal, but people disagree with it because its wrong to them morally based on how they have been brought up etc. It's none of their business if those two people are happy together. Example...20 something dating a 50 something both happy want to get married, which is met by comments of "that's sick!"(subjective), or "pedo!"(factually incorrect) and they run about their sad littles live getting a high blood pressure over these two people lol

Hi Inno

I don't know how you all came to the decision to change the way the wholesaler works. However due to this most recent upgrade I am about to lose half of my fellowship, many of them were already struggling with real life issues, now this.

The problem with these changes is that you think that the fellowship should be based on a fair spread of boosted factories when in truth this is exceptionally hard to obtain. This is why many use the wholesale. If you are refusing to understand this basic flaw than of course everyone is leaving the game. If players had a choice as to what boosted goods they were allowed to produce than this might bring some balance back. As everyone has already unlocked most factories surely in the MH there should be some options to change your boosted factories to ensure you can in fact trade sufficiently for progress in the game.

It was suggested and they said it would make the game "inbalanced" because there would be many players with the same type of boosts. I disagree with that statement and agree with a change to select your boosts 100%

@Anyone
I still find it ridiculous that Innogames and Muf Muf refuse to accept there is or ever was an issue with anything after wading through countless peoples displeased/disappointed reactions here, and over various forms of social media. I mean seriously at some point the penny has to drop when at least 80% (probably more) are annoyed and in nearly all of these posts someone mentions someone who has quit or is threatening to quit. I did call this as soon as the update went live but was brandished as toxic by a few small minded individuals as usual.

Edit by Muf-Muf: Merged multiple posts into one.

 

[firerock]

Irrespective of what Inno say the reason is why they nerfed the trader, to try and put a positive spin on it, the real reason is the same thing they did with the fighting, to stop expansions. So they nerfed the fighting to a point where its pointless for a lot of players (other than tournaments), so what were people left with? negotiating. They then also doubled/tripled the cost of negotiating to deter expansion. But many players then started producing more goods, build wonders to boost production, participated in the tournaments to increase their boosted relics. So still older players carried on (maybe a slower rate) expanding, they use the trader (as everyone has to) for the goods they need. As I've said before I am stuffed with coin mostly, and every 9hours I'm getting nearly 2m in coin. So to stop this expansion too Inno needed to make the trader much harder to stop expansion. Now this is an inconvenience to the older players as we have much more resource free than the younger players, but its a killer those younger players. Being in a fellowship helps but doe snot solve the trading issue. I have a very active fellowship in terms of trading, and I'm lucky that those in my 'hood' also trade, but I still need to trader to supplement my shortfalls.
I think they should have thought this through better, it wasn't liked on the beta forums with players much older than us, and clearly was going to be even more ill received here.
Inno made the change to limit the expansion of older players, so they should have left the trader as is for players who are younger, and factored in the qty of goods a player has in their inventory before changing the goods/coin formula. *number plucked out of air* So if you have <200K of each resource you are fine, but once you start having more than 200K of a resource then the trading price increases to deter hoarding, wont stop it just make it harder. This attacks the real issue and leave the standard gameplay as it is for the majority of users.

 

[DeletedUser2886]

Irrespective of what Inno say the reason is why they nerfed the trader, to try and put a positive spin on it, the real reason is the same thing they did with the fighting, to stop expansions. So they nerfed the fighting to a point where its pointless for a lot of players (other than tournaments), so what were people left with? negotiating. They then also doubled/tripled the cost of negotiating to deter expansion. But many players then started producing more goods, build wonders to boost production, participated in the tournaments to increase their boosted relics. So still older players carried on (maybe a slower rate) expanding, they use the trader (as everyone has to) for the goods they need. As I've said before I am stuffed with coin mostly, and every 9hours I'm getting nearly 2m in coin. So to stop this expansion too Inno needed to make the trader much harder to stop expansion. Now this is an inconvenience to the older players as we have much more resource free than the younger players, but its a killer those younger players. Being in a fellowship helps but doe snot solve the trading issue. I have a very active fellowship in terms of trading, and I'm lucky that those in my 'hood' also trade, but I still need to trader to supplement my shortfalls.
I think they should have thought this through better, it wasn't liked on the beta forums with players much older than us, and clearly was going to be even more ill received here.
Inno made the change to limit the expansion of older players, so they should have left the trader as is for players who are younger, and factored in the qty of goods a player has in their inventory before changing the goods/coin formula. *number plucked out of air* So if you have <200K of each resource you are fine, but once you start having more than 200K of a resource then the trading price increases to deter hoarding, wont stop it just make it harder. This attacks the real issue and leave the standard gameplay as it is for the majority of users.

they didn't nerf negotiating. I am 90/50 and battling has been impossible for ages because im apparently "too far", yet not once have I don a negotiation and not thought the amount asked for was not a problem at all. If they wanted to deter expansions why let us race ahead with negotiations to screw up their battle feature. I'm era 4 atm and negotiating isn't "expensive". battling is impossible. there is no balance there at all. Why give us "scout one province" or "complete a province" repeatable quests either. This new valentine has two scout quests lol. If people are already past where they should be why do that.

Also why punish people for progression? progression is good it should be something you are rewarded for not punished for. In a company if an employee somes on in leaps and bounds and makes huge sales and progress...would the company tell them to calm down and take it slow? no lol. Companies rewards their employees for stuff like that.

I really don't get why they are so angry about the speed that some player progress at. The average player will probably play at "their" speed, and only a small number of players will race ahead like me I'm assuming. It must have something to do with diamonds. They must think that if you progress fast you will never buy diamonds. Newsflash Inno: Some people will just never buy diamonds regardless. It must be that, They think by slowing them down it will force them to buy diamonds. It cant be anything else. The sad thing is that if there wasn't any silly restrictions to stop progression...players WOULD buy diamonds. Trying to make the game nigh on impossible for people isn't gonna make them suddenly buy diamonds. 90% of people will just quit

some people enjoy the satisfaction of progressing quickly. that's fun to them

 

[Timneh]

Personally i think that if Inno do not want people to scout too far ahead they could change one thing and stop it. Currently to move from one chapter to the next you must complete a minimum number of provinces but if the required number is 50 you could have 100 without a problem (except to Inno). Easy way to fix this is to put a cap on the amount of provinces you can scout in each chapter. Problem solved.

 

[DeletedUser]

Personally i think that if Inno do not want people to scout too far ahead they could change one thing and stop it. Currently to move from one chapter to the next you must complete a minimum number of provinces but if the required number is 50 you could have 100 without a problem (except to Inno). Easy way to fix this is to put a cap on the amount of provinces you can scout in each chapter. Problem solved.

Totally agree with this, with woodelves requiring 160 cleared provinces and so S&D requiring 180-190 then I should have cleared 200-210, its somewhat unfortunate then that I've cleared 349 provinces and in fact have scouted 361. However, I had already scouted furthen than Inno wanted me to before I found out about it and so ignored it and carried on.

This would also affect Inno in their events which require us to scout a province - 2 in this event alone! You can't make it a quest if you are intending to block the number of scouted provinces. I have no intention of stopping scouting, my main hall holds 13600k gold and is full at least 4 times a day, I use the excess to buy kp, if I wasn't using 5800k every 3 days then I'd have a lot more gold to dispose of. It doesn't affect me on the world map as I haven't done any fighting since round 10 and in fact that helps me to keep my goods in check somewhat.

It seems that Inno do, at times, look at things backward - by saying we've gone too far they may be expecting us to stop scouting, but if I stopped scouting/clearing then I'd not have much use for non-boosted goods and therefore would trade far less than I already do. I have 2.5m of my boosted goods currently but if I wasn't using non-boosted I wouldn't be helping those who want my boosted goods, multiply that around everyone who has either finished the tree or is tech blocked and the need for the wholesaler becomes even greater.

It often seems to be that by tweaking one part of the game to fit their vision another becomes affected.

 

[DeletedUser3124]

Hi,

I joined the forum at last because I, and my fellowship, are really struggling with this new wholesaler.

I did submit a ticket first to get the dev's response and have to disagree on their first line: "The old Wholesaler was not very user-friendly in the amounts that were offered. "

They were far better than the new option. Yes, the price resets every 12hrs, but that's not really that helpful. Our top player, ranked 80, has trades totalling over 20k of marble because our only boosted marble player (of 25 players!) is relatively new and only making small amounts. We were happy knowing that we had to save up gold to get any decent quantity of resource, what was the problem?

It would work better if there weren't so many abandoned cities. That issue needs to be tackled before anything else.

To us, it seems the new wholesaler is designed to encourage fellowships to boot players to make sure they get an even spread of boosted materials. That doesn't seem very nice to me.

 

[DeletedUser3034]

To us, it seems the new wholesaler is designed to encourage fellowships to boot players to make sure they get an even spread of boosted materials. That doesn't seem very nice to me.

I honestly don't believe that was their intent, but I do see that it may be an unexpected consequence.

 

[DeletedUser2536]

Had a busy week and couldn't play, now I see the changes. Yeah... that Wholesaler...It's bad. It's no fun for me anymore.

I'll finish my my last duties for the fellowship and say goodbye.

So... A big thank you! to all the lovely players I've met, you gave me a really nice time here

Bye,
Fyrr

 

[Timneh]

Had a busy week and couldn't play, now I see the changes. Yeah... that Wholesaler...It's bad. It's no fun for me anymore.

I'll finish my my last duties for the fellowship and say goodbye.

So... A big thank you! to all the lovely players I've met, you gave me a really nice time here

Bye,
Fyrr

Well there goes another player Inno. All because you want people to play the game your way. These players are your customers and it is the customers that pay your salary, you keep driving them away and who will pay your salary then ? You might argue that some maybe even all the players that have left because of the stupid changes to the battle system and now the wholesaler have never bought any diamonds anyway but that does not mean they would never have bought some in the future. I started playing with the intention of never buying any diamonds but i wanted the extra builder and then i wanted some expansions but you made them insanely expensive so now i KNOW i will never buy them again.
How much possible future revenue have Inno games lost and all because people want to play the game in the way they want to play and not your way. Have Inno never heard the saying "the customer is always right" ? In a lot of ways it is true. Lose your customers and you lose your business.

 

[DeletedUser538]

Irrespective of what Inno say the reason is why they nerfed the trader, to try and put a positive spin on it, the real reason is the same thing they did with the fighting, to stop expansions. So they nerfed the fighting to a point where its pointless for a lot of players (other than tournaments), so what were people left with? negotiating. They then also doubled/tripled the cost of negotiating to deter expansion. But many players then started producing more goods, build wonders to boost production, participated in the tournaments to increase their boosted relics. So still older players carried on (maybe a slower rate) expanding, they use the trader (as everyone has to) for the goods they need. As I've said before I am stuffed with coin mostly, and every 9hours I'm getting nearly 2m in coin. So to stop this expansion too Inno needed to make the trader much harder to stop expansion. Now this is an inconvenience to the older players as we have much more resource free than the younger players, but its a killer those younger players. Being in a fellowship helps but doe snot solve the trading issue. I have a very active fellowship in terms of trading, and I'm lucky that those in my 'hood' also trade, but I still need to trader to supplement my shortfalls.
I think they should have thought this through better, it wasn't liked on the beta forums with players much older than us, and clearly was going to be even more ill received here.
Inno made the change to limit the expansion of older players, so they should have left the trader as is for players who are younger, and factored in the qty of goods a player has in their inventory before changing the goods/coin formula. *number plucked out of air* So if you have <200K of each resource you are fine, but once you start having more than 200K of a resource then the trading price increases to deter hoarding, wont stop it just make it harder. This attacks the real issue and leave the standard gameplay as it is for the majority of users.

......605k for marble are you SERIOUS........

Irrespective of what Inno say the reason is why they nerfed the trader, to try and put a positive spin on it, the real reason is the same thing they did with the fighting, to stop expansions. So they nerfed the fighting to a point where its pointless for a lot of players (other than tournaments), so what were people left with? negotiating. They then also doubled/tripled the cost of negotiating to deter expansion. But many players then started producing more goods, build wonders to boost production, participated in the tournaments to increase their boosted relics. So still older players carried on (maybe a slower rate) expanding, they use the trader (as everyone has to) for the goods they need. As I've said before I am stuffed with coin mostly, and every 9hours I'm getting nearly 2m in coin. So to stop this expansion too Inno needed to make the trader much harder to stop expansion. Now this is an inconvenience to the older players as we have much more resource free than the younger players, but its a killer those younger players. Being in a fellowship helps but doe snot solve the trading issue. I have a very active fellowship in terms of trading, and I'm lucky that those in my 'hood' also trade, but I still need to trader to supplement my shortfalls.
I think they should have thought this through better, it wasn't liked on the beta forums with players much older than us, and clearly was going to be even more ill received here.
Inno made the change to limit the expansion of older players, so they should have left the trader as is for players who are younger, and factored in the qty of goods a player has in their inventory before changing the goods/coin formula. *number plucked out of air* So if you have <200K of each resource you are fine, but once you start having more than 200K of a resource then the trading price increases to deter hoarding, wont stop it just make it harder. This attacks the real issue and leave the standard gameplay as it is for the majority of users.

this is not helping ...now what do we do with the blooming traders guild ..this is suppose to help with trade ..you have gone and changed it so why would we bother to put it down and waste space ,and not get any help with trading???? 604k for marble are you serious

Edit by Muf-Muf: Merged multiple posts into one.

 

[DeletedUser3124]

I honestly don't believe that was their intent, but I do see that it may be an unexpected consequence.

I don't believe it was their intent, either, but it IS the result.

If they want to slow people's expansion then they need to remove the option to buy it. Some people will want to speed things up and have the cash, others won't. It's human nature.

 

[DeletedUser1345]

Personally i think that if Inno do not want people to scout too far ahead they could change one thing and stop it... put a cap on the amount of provinces you can scout in each chapter. Problem solved.

It's one thing to discourage expansion ( as has clearly been done ), but I strongly suspect that if the Devs. were to actually slam the door shut on province-expansion completely, the exodus from this game would be massive.
Perhaps the Devs. suspect the same thing.
- Lighteye-elf, Archmage, The Alliance

 

[DeletedUser3105]

No-one LIKES this... I suggest INNO GAMES start LISTEN to their players PRONTO... folk are leaving fellowships!!! Same are doing 'ABBA' (this is taken from the song... knowing me knowing you... but its visit me .. visit you) in their city names... which basically means they will no longer visit folk for coins alone but only visit those who they gain supplies from... hence fellowships are suffering ... folk who are away/shiftwork/ill are no longer being visited... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE... re-think this wholesaler thing.. its causing a lot of grief... not just for the players but for the ARCHMAGES AND MAGES... who are getting more messages than is poss to answer... I myself am spending more time doing these types of messages (on behalf of our members) and answering members ??'s than playing the game... to be honest.. its giving me more headaches than its worth... THANKS x

Even limiting the visiting to the fellowship and those who have visited has left me with a glut of coins but there is no way I will be subjected the tryany of the programmers idea of making the acquisition of goods I cannot gain via the trade.