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Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Muf-Muf, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Shaman

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Interesting, but that doesn't change my thought's, or make them less worthy for Inno as feedback. We are not lazy or greedy, and I as a player have bought magic buildings, and used diamonds to upgrade them as my fellowship never managed the magic blue print in the tournament yet.
    Why should a few players have everything?
    It would be a very empty elite world if your case were to happen, and I can only suggest Inno make a seperate world for players like yourself where you can all be ranked top and fund the game for us peasants to try playing please.
     
  2. Tree

    Tree Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    Do you think 1 chest fellowships should be able to upgrade event buildings? How about RR spells for people who just log in to the game? Don't wanna discriminate against those who refrain from participating in tournaments, right? Where do you draw the line?
    Why should only billionaires have superyachts? That's totally unfair for people who work at McDonalds!!
    Not sure what you're on about with your "elite world" rant. You're basically saying that currently all worlds are an "elite world" because, with the current setup, only 10-chest fellowships can get a blueprint. If you don't want to put in the same work but expect the same reward then you are greedy.
     
  3. Tree

    Tree Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    Yes, McDonalds. You're saying that fellowships that earn a low number of chests deserve the best rewards otherwise it's unfair/elitist, hence the analogy. Billionaire = 10-chest fellowship, McDonalds worker = low chest fellowship, superyacht = RR/blueprints. Didn't think I'd need to spell it out.

    I don't get it.. completely ignore my arguments, threaten me with obscenities and call for me to be censored? What the...
     
    Viskyar and SoggyShorts like this.
  4. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    I like it that Inno made the RR spells available to everyone. There’s still a superyacht = 11 RR spells and there’s also a yacht = 5 spells and even a dinghy = 1 spell. And of course, there’s nothing for no effort.
     
    Luciana likes this.
  5. Killiak

    Killiak Necromancer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    @Tree Excellent points and good questions.

    As I see it, Inno is performing a balancing act with this. They don't want to give out RR like candy, but on the other hand do not want to restrict the flow too much as every player was affected by the event building nerf. So it stands to reason that every player should be able to benefit.


    As a general comment to all, perhaps it would be good to consider the following;
    The way RR is being implemented, it also becomes a reward that can be easilly given during events (such as the current winter magic), during FA or even as a prize for Forum Events (@Dizzy Lizzie an idea for you ;) ). That 11 RR per 10 chests is most likely not the final source.

    And yes, I am all for making it craftable / creatable in the MA.
     
    Luciana likes this.
  6. Lisica

    Lisica Illusionist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Inno gives with one hand and takes with the other, as I've said before - to offer 11 RR spells for those who get the full 10 chests every week rather than the 10 on the current proposed conversion rate seems really nice, right? A whole 10% more...

    However, if you look at it more closely then you'll see that it isn't actually that nice. My beta city is in fairies and has 3 magic houses and 1 magic workshop, to upgrade just 1 house and 1 workshop to orcs would have cost 2 blueprints, the cost in RR spells will now be 12 for the house and 18 for the workshop - this brings the total to 30 RR spells (straight conversion rate on what I already have of 3 blueprints). Inno can dress it up and say that I'll be getting 11 RR for each 10 chests my FS does, but its still going to take me 3 x 10 chest tournaments to upgrade those 2 buildings and not 2 as it was before the change!
     
    Luciana, Tree, Kaliartis and 3 others like this.
  7. Lisica

    Lisica Illusionist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    The rollout of the RR spell has been deactivated in Beta...
     
    LadyHavva, Kaliartis and Joemork like this.
  8. Thagdal

    Thagdal Conjurer

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    How convienient...it was supposed to be a 2018 release, lets dangle what we got just to make it look like we are doing something, then when everybody gives em what for, they pull it back, knowing full well it would cause an uproar.
    So expect to wait a few more months for the RR Spell to appear again.:rolleyes::D

    maybe they need to follow this good advice...K.I.S.S.:eek:;)

    I think they should keep blueprints as is for magic buildings, make it a totally new spell for event building upgrades.
    this keeps the 10 chest people happy and keeps everybody happy having options to upgrade event buildings.:)
     
    EdwardTrunk likes this.
  9. EdwardTrunk

    EdwardTrunk Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    Reading the response from Inno on the beta forum I'm amazed that the feedback they got has apparently surprised them. 7 months to think this thing through and now a further delay because the feedback has made them rethink things or at least that's what they're telling us.
     
    Thagdal likes this.
  10. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Shaman

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    @Tree For the record, I put in a lot of work in the game, play every day, help everyone every day, score around 3k points in the tournament every week, so because I help and encourage players in a 6-7 chest fellowship to try and do better in the game and help them improve and enjoy the game, that makes me greedy.
    Sorry again.
     
  11. JackLuyt

    JackLuyt Scholar

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    I am not as fussed about the RR Spells as many other players. I play the Tournaments for KP to upgrade my Wonders - and will get several hundred every week, just like before.
    I don't buy Magic Buildings so the Blueprints never bothered me - and neither will the RR, which I regard as incidental to my main reason for being a devoted Tournament player, with my two ten-chest fellowships backing me.
     
  12. JackLuyt

    JackLuyt Scholar

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    This is today's announcement - the Royal Restorative is being converted back to Blueprints,
    and the design team will release it again after the New Year



    [​IMG]
    Marindor
    Community Manager
    Elvenar Team

    Hi everyone,

    We would like to thank every single one of you who took the time to provide us with constructive and elaborate feedback on the current implementation of the Royal Restoration Spell in our feedback thread.

    The main goal of the early beta tests of this feature on beta was to not only squat all potential bugs prior to the live release, but also to give everyone the opportunity to provide us with this kind of feedback for us to consider for improvements. We got to see a lot of different perspectives and read some very valid points, both positive and negative. With this feedback in mind, we have gathered again to analyse and discuss further possibilities to make the implementation of our planned feature to upgrade summonable buildings as enjoyable as possible, while at the same time not tipping our delicate game balance. We would now like to take the necessary time to reconsider some assumptions and back up all concerns, examples and ideas with additional data analyses to re-iterate on the concept. Thanks to your feedback, we have also discovered some technical flaws that we would like to address at the same time.

    Seen as the Christmas holidays are just around the corner, this means that we will not be taking any further steps towards the rollout on live markets or release any more updates on beta this year. We feel that hasty decisions would be the wrong approach for this complex topic.
    As such, we will deactivate the Royal Restoration Spell on beta for the time being and revert all Royal Restoration Spells back to Blueprints so that you can continue using them for upgrades of magical buildings. This also means that the tournaments will reward you with Blueprints as they did in the old system.
    Should there be any more Spells than increments of 10 in your inventory, we will of course round the results of the exchange up in your favor (e.g. 11 Royal Restoration Spells would be equal to 1.1 Blueprints and hence be converted back to 2 Blueprints). All upgrades made to buildings will be kept in place.

    We shall then keep you posted on any adjustments to the initial release plan in January, to provide you with an update on this topic and see how we proceed with the implementation of this feature that will ultimately enable you to upgrade your summonable event buildings.


    [​IMG]
     
    Luciana and CleverAngel777 like this.
  13. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Enchanter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    on the beta announcement they said that it wouldn't be fair for someone to be able to use 1 royal spell to upgrade a 5x5 building and to also charge 1 spell to upgrade a 2x2 building. this is not true. it would be fair. everyone would just need to use their spells more wisely and use them for larger buildings. it would still be the same system for every player. maybe their system would have been easier to add to the game if they didn't over-complicate everything and left 1 blueprint = to 1 royal spell.
     
  14. Heartman

    Heartman Spellcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Its very interesting that the devs would use this argument to support their cause.

    It does raise a curiosity though.

    A magic workshop (Elves) from lvl 1 to 2 which is 2x2 (4 squares), to 2 x 3 (6 squares) will cost in diamonds 320.

    A magic workshop (Elves) from lvl 12 to 13 which is 3x7 (21 squares), to 4x6 (24 squares) will cost in diamonds 320.

    So, my question to the devs would be, by your own logic and reasoning, are you now openly admitting that the price of these upgrades is unfair ??

    Sometimes it makes me think, do the devs really care what we think, because it appears to me that they will rattle off any old line, without thinking it through properly.
     
    EdwardTrunk and yo momma love me like this.
  15. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    I think that the problem Inno has is that currently it takes the same effort to upgrade level 1 magic building as to upgrade level 12 magic building. It's very hard to get accepted by 10 chests fellowship at low level. They want all players to have the same rewards for effort regardless of their level.

    I still think that the conversion rate was wrong and needs to be much higher.
     
  16. Maillie

    Maillie Dreamer

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    I find it ridiculous that the players who finish 10 chests in top fellowships talk about how much harder they work. I have to doubt that any one of them has ever cleared 10 chests on their own. They are being carried by the other members of their fellowship into and through the 10th chest because their fellowship has enough players able to do so. It takes a team to finish 10 chests, and they may or may not work as hard as a smaller team of low level players that clears 5 chests. Our fellowship has players all the way down to Chapter 2, yet our "family" was in the 9th chest again last week. We work just as hard as the top fellowships with a lot less manpower because it's a great team, almost always with 100% participation. To suggest that a small fs is lazy because they don't have your group of players to carry them through the 10th chest is disrespectful of just how hard some teams do work.

    And yes, the conversion rate is dreadfully wrong.
     
  17. Lisica

    Lisica Illusionist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    The ability of lower level people to reach the higher numbers is affected by how many open provinces they have on the world map, if you only have 3 open provinces for a tournament in one week then that's all you can do and isn't a sign that you're "lazy" as some people often say. You can be in the middle of the tech tree and still be able to hit 2k+ in a tournament if you have the provinces open.

    While I think its good that the RR spell would be available to everyone who is participating in tournaments, I do think that there should be a better reward for those who do manage to get the 10th chest as that really is a major effort and not something that every fellowship can gain every week unless they have higher levels who are devoting thousands of troops/goods every week.

    I would suggest that they keep the blueprints for the 10th chest as now and which is purely for upgrading the magic houses and workshops, but use the RR spells for upgrading event buildings. Why punish those who have paid money for their magic buildings and who were able to use the blueprints to upgrade.
     
    Cerebros likes this.
  18. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Scholar

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    You've nailed the problem, and yet came down on the wrong side.
    Your FS is building
    You currently do 7 chests
    If you no long er need to do 10 chests for a BP, and now get 50% of the RR just for doing 7 chests, what happens to the motivation to do better?
    Good luck encouraging players to push for 10 chests every few weeks or to eventually improve to become a 10 chest FS.
    There is no excuse for not being in a FS. At the very least a FS of 1 is an option.
    I'm not sure about this analogy as I don't think you can trade 11 dingies for a superyacht.
    Getting 300 points is not 10% of getting 3,000 points. The cost to fight/cater is not linear, nor is the number of points needed per chest.
    Getting 10 chests costs a FS upwards of 30x what it costs for 3 chests.
    The 1 RR per square upgrade for event buildings is brilliant. You say "more wisely" but reallywith 1 BP=1 RR the choices become very limited. Smart or stupid. Much better if upgrading a rainbow flower cage and a 3*6 set building are both viable smart choices(and every other choice in between)
    The hardest part of the tournament might be getting 24 other players to join you and work hard. Even in a FS of 25 like yours there are often 10 players not doing their share. Every player in every chapter can do chapter x100 points (e.g. chapter 2 = 200 points)
    A smaller team that is "working hard" i.e. 1600+ points each should be able to merge into or with another FS doing the same.
    It is also not very hard to find a 10 chest FS that will take you if you are doing your share of 10 chests.

    Not getting 10 chests is a choice. It's even one I have made on 2 servers. Beta because I play more casually there, and on US2 because I want to try and forge a 10 chest FS. I could leave my FS today and join a 10 chest FS in 5 minutes if I wanted to because I average over 2K, and so could anyone else.

    Note: I haven't actually checked the EN top tournament fellowships, but on all 7 US servers there is an opening in a top FS, so it seems reasonable.
     
    EdwardTrunk, Tree and m4rt1n like this.
  19. Cerebros

    Cerebros Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2016
    Exactly. The automatic conversion of blueprints into Royal Restoration spells only made sense with the original plan of using 1 RR spell to upgrade an event or magic building one level. With this new plan of having to use x amount of RR spells depending on the tile size of the event/magic building you want to upgrade the Elvenar devs should've just kept the old system of 1 blueprint in the tenth tournament chest (to upgrade magic buildings), and added the Royal Restoration spell to upgrade event buildings.

    Spread out a bunch of those RR spells among the tournament chests.
    Add the possibility to disenchant/convert a blueprint into a reasonable amount of RR spells.
    And also make it possible to produce the RR spell in your Magic Academy.

    This way the 10th tournament chest is still a very worthwhile goal because it's still the only way to get blueprints.
    People can then choose to use their blueprints to upgrade event buildings if they want (by converting it into RR spells) while still being able to use 1 blueprint to upgrade 1 magic building.
    The Magic Academy becomes a more useful building.

    All good things IMO.
     
    Lisica and SoggyShorts like this.
  20. CleverAngel777

    CleverAngel777 Enchanter

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Yes, the cost to fight/cater is not linear and the analogy was never meant to show it as linear. If you compare dinghy to superyacht, it might be 275,000 dinghies for a superyacht and isn't that in favour of what you're saying? :)
    This is why I don't agree with the conversion rate.

    Yes, you’re right. It's a choice and it’s a smart choice to not do 10 chests if you need your resources to grow. Most of the players that are in 10 chests fellowships are bored as they finished Amuni and there’s nothing much to do with their resources than play tournaments. If a player in low chapters decided to do 1,600 points every week in a tournament, this player wouldn’t progress much if it even was possible to do it.
     

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