Forced to build Magic Academy ?!?!?

[DeletedUser]

I don't watch advertising for a game I am already playing.

If you want to hang out on the bleeding edge you'll have to deal with bugs and sketchy information.

If you want a more comfortable gaming experience, then just build the Magic Academy and use it, rather than trying to swim against the current.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you want to hang out on the bleeding edge you'll have to deal with bugs and sketchy information.

If you want a more comfortable gaming experience, then just build the Magic Academy and use it, rather than trying to swim against the current.

How is it more comfortable to build something I don't use? How is trying to make the game better, with easy to implement suggestions "swimming against the current"? Aren't the Devs swimming against the current, as the majority want to be able to delete the MA?

 

[CrazyWizard]

I honoustly dont see a way for the MA to ever become usefull to me, unless they come with something out of the box or something thats goes agains normal game design I simply don't see a way.
Unless we come up with spells that give permanent improvements like for example the size of your city coffers, reduction of scouting costs ect.
Spells that break the barriers that are designed to keep us players in check.

Lets analise the other madatory buildings
-City Hall
A start building, everyone has it, it's also a good source of points for your ranking, and with each expansion more points can be gained. it also decides the size of your city coffers, the amount of hammers you can store and some premium gimmicks
-Builders Hut
Again a start building, one of the most useless ones but since it's a start building everyone has it. it decides how many builders you have, having no builders would ruin your game, therefore essential. the building is designed to be unable to mature but as a start building this is not a problem.
-Barracks
A building that over times matures, while those who dont like to fight feel it's useless, it's still a mayor source of ranking points, since it's a maturing building if it becomes to useless there is always the option to improve the building to easily make it worth while.
-The Trader
A building you need to build, a building who at start looks not the best building on the planet, and is designed to not mature (tho maturing options are possible) but when your game matures and your production bonus on bonus goods improved it becomes really difficult to play without it, not impossible just very very hard. therefore a building few people question.
-The Magic Academy
a building that you do not start with, it's large cumbersome and like the builders hut designed in a way that disallows maturing, a building thats questioned by many to be forced to be mandatory, Unable to mature due game design, and for many a building with spells that are worthless in mid to late game, more usefull early game.

1. Solutions: spells that break the game barriers.
2. Making goods in need so much that the only way to handle it is to use the magic academy to boost your goods production into managable levels. creating a game barrier that can only be broken by the MA --> returns to point 1.

Sidenote: designers should have taken notice when the problems around wonders where revealed, the most popular ones are Mountain Halls and Sanctuary, both buildings "add" points to the people ranking, dwarven bullwark is one of the least popular ones. this is very wel recognised by the dev team and solutions have been thought up / still under discussion/implementation. the MA has actually the same flaw yet no one in the dev team seemed to have acknowleged that fact. a 2x2 spire (fits the theme, wizard towers are very famous in fantasy stories) instead of a huge building could have eased the resistance agains this building by a lot, and is actually still an option since you can always shrink down a building (expanding it creates issues) A 2x2 or 3x3 building fits very well in city design to be combined with buildings like the builders hut fitting the late game layouts.

Edit: a portal to the "Elvenar Magic Acedemy" would be even much better, it would create a easier way to "shrink" the building, and looking how "rare" magic acedemy's are in fantasy stories. it would fit the theme as well.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

If you want to hang out on the bleeding edge you'll have to deal with bugs and sketchy information.

If you want a more comfortable gaming experience, then just build the Magic Academy and use it, rather than trying to swim against the current.

You just don't give up, lol The current is firmly in favour of being able to delete the MA. You and the developers are the ones swimming against the current. Not one vote has come out in favour of making the MA mandatory.

Please explain why you are not prepared to be flexible?

 

[DeletedUser219]

You just don't give up, lol The current is firmly in favour of being able to delete the MA. You and the developers are the ones swimming against the current. Not one vote has come out in favour of making the MA mandatory.

Please explain why you are not prepared to be flexible?

Do you even listen to yourself? I mean, you have already announced that you are not listening to anyone who disagrees with you, but that statement sounds an awful lot like "Be reasonable, do it MY way."

 

[DeletedUser]

Do you even listen to yourself? I mean, you have already announced that you are not listening to anyone who disagrees with you, but that statement sounds an awful lot like "Be reasonable, do it MY way."

Do you listen to yourself? You just ignored that the majority says they want something, yet you still think it is ok to ignore them.

"Be reasonable, do it my way" is TOTALLY reasonable when the majority want it that way.

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

For starters, I think the developers should explain their idea on how the MA actually be useful. Apart from being a white elephant that consumes relics while providing tiny temporary perks, there truly is nothing interesting about the MA.

I would say let the MA generate spells automatically at a lower level, to get a more stronger spell to be generated some relics need to be added to enhance it. Not keep inserting to get a lousy spell

That way, you can keep getting the boosts intended and at the same time encourage some battles. even thought the battle system is still not so good to work with erroneous turn table, almost always lower quarter damage done by player units while the AI almost certainly does near max damage at every hit.

Your example is faulty. What you mean is "If you went into a chicken shop and they could offer you want you want, without significant effort, is it bad customer service?"

"They are focused on what they are doing... don't break a winning formula"
Indeed. Keep focused. This can be achieved by keeping your customers happy while you hatch your master plan.
Never break a winning formula means do what you do best, keep your customers happy, without letting your personal feelings get in the way. Your personal feelings don't pay the bills.

You need to think in the developers shoes: you start selling what is your idea. Same goes for the chicken shop. If you do not like it being crispy does not mean others share your sentiment.

Or you go into a business that keeps changing when some guy walks up to you and tells you your stuff is lousy each time he finds something not up his alley? Your shop does not serve 1 person.

 

[DeletedUser]

You need to think in the developers shoes: you start selling what is your idea. Same goes for the chicken shop. If you do not like it being crispy does not mean others share your sentiment.

EXACTLY! We totally agree! The devs should understand that the way they want it, is not always the way the majority want it.

Or you go into a business that keeps changing when some guy walks up to you and tells you your stuff is lousy each time he finds something not up his alley? Your shop does not serve 1 person.

Again, I see you agree. The shop does not serve one person, so go with the majority, let the MA be deletable. When that guy comes in and says something is lousy, the business asks why and how can they fix it. The customer then gives a solution that represents the majority, is an easy fix and disadvantages no-one. The shop then says... No, we don't want to do the easy, right thing by our customers. Then wonders why people get upset.

Good talk!

 

[DeletedUser1739]

I honoustly dont see a way for the MA to ever become usefull to me, unless they come with something out of the box or something thats goes agains normal game design I simply don't see a way.
Unless we come up with spells that give permanent improvements like for example the size of your city coffers, reduction of scouting costs ect.
Spells that break the barriers that are designed to keep us players in check.

Lets analise the other madatory buildings
-City Hall
A start building, everyone has it, it's also a good source of points for your ranking, and with each expansion more points can be gained. it also decides the size of your city coffers, the amount of hammers you can store and some premium gimmicks
-Builders Hut
Again a start building, one of the most useless ones but since it's a start building everyone has it. it decides how many builders you have, having no builders would ruin your game, therefore essential. the building is designed to be unable to mature but as a start building this is not a problem.
-Barracks
A building that over times matures, while those who dont like to fight feel it's useless, it's still a mayor source of ranking points, since it's a maturing building if it becomes to useless there is always the option to improve the building to easily make it worth while.
-The Trader
A building you need to build, a building who at start looks not the best building on the planet, and is designed to not mature (tho maturing options are possible) but when your game matures and your production bonus on bonus goods improved it becomes really difficult to play without it, not impossible just very very hard. therefore a building few people question.
-The Magic Academy
a building that you do not start with, it's large cumbersome and like the builders hut designed in a way that disallows maturing, a building thats questioned by many to be forced to be mandatory, Unable to mature due game design, and for many a building with spells that are worthless in mid to late game, more usefull early game.

1. Solutions: spells that break the game barriers.
2. Making goods in need so much that the only way to handle it is to use the magic academy to boost your goods production into managable levels. creating a game barrier that can only be broken by the MA --> returns to point 1.

Sidenote: designers should have taken notice when the problems around wonders where revealed, the most popular ones are Mountain Halls and Sanctuary, both buildings "add" points to the people ranking, dwarven bullwark is one of the least popular ones. this is very wel recognised by the dev team and solutions have been thought up / still under discussion/implementation. the MA has actually the same flaw yet no one in the dev team seemed to have acknowleged that fact. a 2x2 spire (fits the theme, wizard towers are very famous in fantasy stories) instead of a huge building could have eased the resistance agains this building by a lot, and is actually still an option since you can always shrink down a building (expanding it creates issues) A 2x2 or 3x3 building fits very well in city design to be combined with buildings like the builders hut fitting the late game layouts.

Edit: a portal to the "Elvenar Magic Acedemy" would be even much better, it would create a easier way to "shrink" the building, and looking how "rare" magic acedemy's are in fantasy stories. it would fit the theme as well.

The trader building is useless since you can access tradings through the bottom menu.

 

[DeletedUser]

The trader building is useless since you can access tradings through the bottom menu.

Can you access it through the bottom menu WITHOUT the building? Or is that a convenient (which I approve of!) way to trade, rather than looking for your trader?

 

[DeletedUser1739]

Can you access it through the bottom menu WITHOUT the building? Or is that a convenient (which I approve of!) way to trade, rather than looking for your trader?

dont think you can access it through the menu without building the building first.but to me yeah its more convenient to click on the trading icon in the menu than look for the building which I always have to move cause it stands in my way

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

EXACTLY! We totally agree! The devs should understand that the way they want it, is not always the way the majority want it.



Again, I see you agree. The shop does not serve one person, so go with the majority, let the MA be deletable. When that guy comes in and says something is lousy, the business asks why and how can they fix it. The customer then gives a solution that represents the majority, is an easy fix and disadvantages no-one. The shop then says... No, we don't want to do the easy, right thing by our customers. Then wonders why people get upset.

Good talk!

-__- you like to do cut and paste changing the meaning of the sentences. This majority you speak of in this thread since its a group 1, namely just you. You are definitely posting to chalk up posts nothing more.

 

[DeletedUser]

-__- you like to do cut and paste changing the meaning of the sentences. This majority you speak of in this thread since its a group 1, namely just you. You are definitely posting to chalk up posts nothing more.

Nice work, throw in an insult, with no corroborating evidence or counter argument. Who is posting pointless posts?

Please provide evidence that I changed your meaning, or only cut the part that suited my needs. YOU on the other hand, cut and pasted only part of what I posted, so YOU are doing exactly what you are complaining about... again, who is in the wrong here?

EDIT: I should be more precise. What I did was take the argument you applied against my position and applied the exact same argument against YOUR position. Against my position, it made a small amount of sense, against YOUR position, it countered your argument.
Thus, you have no reply, other than insults, as it is YOUR argument, that defeated YOUR position.

 

[DeletedUser1353]

The thing that bothers me isn't the MA itself, but rather how it is implemented, it just feels rushed and sloppy. It's like a middlething between mandatory and optional, once you build it there's no turning back or you can just ignore the quest forever.
It will leave people who builds it (because the game tells them to with a non-declinable quest) and then don't want it anymore feeling very frustrated as we can clearly see here on the forum.

And it just seems so incredible easy to fix: make it optional. And if making it deletable isn't as easy as it seems, at least come out with an answer to the players WHY it's not as easy as people think to make it deletable. A clear answer.

I understand that the devs thought this is an awesome building, otherwise they wouldn't have added it, and they want everyone to use it. But forcing it on us in this awkward way is clearly not the right way. I might add that I personally don't mind the building and wouldn't delete it if it was possible (atleast not until the very late game).

Just a sidenote: I see some people defending the devs in every matter possible (not just this), treating them almost like unfailable gods. With this attitude you're not really helping the game moving forward, if you really like a game like this then put on the critical glasses and give some constructive feedback instead. Not saying: critize everything!, but think for yourselves a little bit.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

Do you even listen to yourself? I mean, you have already announced that you are not listening to anyone who disagrees with you, but that statement sounds an awful lot like "Be reasonable, do it MY way."

Horanda, here's a test for you. See if you can see the argument from my point of view?

What I am asking for does not effect you or anyone else who wants the MA.

What you are asking for imposes the MA on those who do not want it.

Which position do you think is more reasonable? Before answering, take a deep breath and consider the fact that it's much easier to admit you have been wrong than to continue to argue a losing position.

 

[DeletedUser]

What I am asking for does not effect you or anyone else who wants the MA

• If everybody has a Magic Academy, then it's a level playing field. The size doesn't even matter so long as everybody has one. Why ever do you think you deserve an on-going advantage over new players, just because you happened to be around before the Magic Academy was introduced?
• Once Tournaments arrive, you'll have Relics coming out of your ears. Relic boosts are capped at 700%, and thereafter the spells are effectively free because you'll have no other use for the relics that you'll continue to accumulate.
• If you have a Magic Academy you'll have a lot MORE choices, because you'll always have the option of using your spells to ease your way past the various bottlenecks.
• All of the spell related quests and the features will be simpler to program and use when everybody HAS the necessary infrastructure. Hopefully we'll see some activities that will be nearly impossible UNLESS you use a spell or three.
• It seems that the Magic Academy uses the same code base as the Barracks and that, all by itself, is enough of a reason to treat it in a similar matter.

The developers have made it quite clear that the Magic Academy is mandatory, that it's here to stay, and that more and more spells will be added as we go along. You're just wasting oxygen.

 

[DeletedUser]

I am not sure how you can remain so willfully wrong, let me break it down for you again.

• If everybody has a Magic Academy, then it's a level playing field. The size doesn't even matter so long as everybody has one. Why ever do you think you deserve an on-going advantage over new players, just because you happened to be around before the Magic Academy was introduced?

Here you used distraction as an argument technique, buy arguing a case that no-one cares about. This argument is totally irrelevant as what is requested is to be able to delete the MA AFTER it is built, thus no advantage is given. Thus, this has no place here and can be ignored.

• [*]Once Tournaments arrive, you'll have Relics coming out of your ears. Relic boosts are capped at 700%, and thereafter the spells are effectively free, as you have no other use for the relics that you'll continue to accumulate.

  "Once tournaments arrive" is an admission that it is currently broken, then you go on to explain how the MA will be good. Again, you are using distraction in this argument. Not only are you admitting it is currently broken (thank you) but you are also not showing that it would be a disadvantage for it to be deleted. This argument can also be ignored, except the bit that help my cause.

• [*]If you DO have a Magic Academy, you'll have a lot MORE choices, because you'll always have the option of using your spells to ease your way past the bottlenecks.

  You did try a little harder this time, again, distraction was your choice of argument. You argued that having a MA grants more choice, which is correct. Do you know what grants exactly the same choices as you expouse, but then adds even more? Having the MA deletable. That would grant all the choices you have PLUS decisions on how to format your city. This argument is also invalid and can be ignored.

  [*]All of the spell related quests and the features will be simpler to program and use when everybody HAS the necessary infrastructure.

  Maybe. Get a dev to tell me that, you are guessing... so can be ignored. (until further information is gained)

  [*]It seems that the Magic Academy uses the same code base as the Barracks and that, all by itself, is enough of a reason to treat it in a similar matter.

  How do you know it is the same code base? Provide information that proves this assertion, otherwise it can be ignored. (Right now your assertion it is the same code base and my assertion that it isn't, have equal weight, thus neither of us can use it as an argument)

The developers have made it quite clear that the Magic Academy is mandatory, that it's here to stay, and that more and more spell will be added as we go along. You're just wasting oxygen.

You could say that. Or you could say that you are doing so, by going against the majority AND arguing against the majority. My personal view is that you should stand up and be counted, rather than be the passive group that gets trampled.

Did you read the post that gently pointed out that people who are blindly supportive of the devs are not helping? Coming from someone not passionately involved in this issue? They (probably) are talking about YOU.

I like the game. I play the game. I PAY for the game. I only constructively criticise the obvious poor decisions that can be made better with little effort. You appear to NOT want to improve the game. You have not only failed to come up with a coherent argument against the MA being deletable, but you are championing the game being WORSE.

 

[DeletedUser]

"Once tournaments arrive" is an admission that it is currently broken

That's nonsense. That would be like complaining that the batter only hit a double, which doesn't even count as a run.

There's a HUGE difference between "not yet complete" and "broken."

 

[DeletedUser]

That's nonsense. That would be like complaining that the batter only hit a double, which doesn't even count as a run.

There's a HUGE difference between "not yet complete" and "broken."

If the definition of broken is all you could come back with after my demolition of your last comment, I will declare victory!

 

[DeletedUser1683]

• If everybody has a Magic Academy, then it's a level playing field. The size doesn't even matter so long as everybody has one. Why ever do you think you deserve an on-going advantage over new players, just because you happened to be around before the Magic Academy was introduced?
• Once Tournaments arrive, you'll have Relics coming out of your ears. Relic boosts are capped at 700%, and thereafter the spells are effectively free because you'll have no other use for the relics that you'll continue to accumulate.
• If you have a Magic Academy you'll have a lot MORE choices, because you'll always have the option of using your spells to ease your way past the various bottlenecks.
• All of the spell related quests and the features will be simpler to program and use when everybody HAS the necessary infrastructure. Hopefully we'll see some activities that will be nearly impossible UNLESS you use a spell or three.
• It seems that the Magic Academy uses the same code base as the Barracks and that, all by itself, is enough of a reason to treat it in a similar matter.

The developers have made it quite clear that the Magic Academy is mandatory, that it's here to stay, and that more and more spells will be added as we go along. You're just wasting oxygen.

View attachment 1412

If everyone is allowed do remove the MA, that seems pretty fair, too? If it's so good, then how is us not wanting to use it an advantage?
Maybe I don't want to play Tournaments? You're saying tournaments should be mandatory, too? You're not very keen on any freedom to play our own styles, it would seem,
If we have to have the MA, that's one less choice.
We are not interested in the spells. How can I get you to understand that?
The barracks is a different issue and irrelevant.

It's my oxygen to waste, or you want to control that too?

I feel that your wish to engraciate yourself with the moderators and developers is clouding your judgement.