Forced to build Magic Academy ?!?!?

[DeletedUser1683]

That's nonsense. That would be like complaining that the batter only hit a double, which doesn't even count as a run.

There's a HUGE difference between "not yet complete" and "broken."

Off topic. If you want to discuss tournaments you really should create your own thread and not
hijack mine.

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2016

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

Nice work, throw in an insult, with no corroborating evidence or counter argument. Who is posting pointless posts?

Please provide evidence that I changed your meaning, or only cut the part that suited my needs. YOU on the other hand, cut and pasted only part of what I posted, so YOU are doing exactly what you are complaining about... again, who is in the wrong here?

EDIT: I should be more precise. What I did was take the argument you applied against my position and applied the exact same argument against YOUR position. Against my position, it made a small amount of sense, against YOUR position, it countered your argument.
Thus, you have no reply, other than insults, as it is YOUR argument, that defeated YOUR position.

You are simply attempting to chalk up posts and post senselessly by quoting out of context. Read my original post. It is totally different from your reply when you replied quoting which I have typed. Your version of majority is just you and a tiny handful. That hardly suffice to be called majority. Just look at the posts. Im not only one who has identified you to be as such.

My example quoted is intended for considering the situation in the shoes of the developers (the shop owner) not you the customer. Just because you do not buy in on a particular item they are selling does not mean they must remove it. There are those who have found it useful (somewhere in the earlier posts in the thread).

And most importantly, the developers have placed their foot down on this MA: It is here to stay. It is deeply binded into the research tree forcing a mandatorial research be done.

They do recognize the disappointment of it but as to how and when they can actually correct this is unknown since it was never announced. If they did not why would they bother asking for feedback to improve not remove.

 

[DeletedUser]

You are simply attempting to chalk up posts and post senselessly by quoting out of context. Read my original post. It is totally different from your reply when you replied quoting which I have typed. Your version of majority is just you and a tiny handful. That hardly suffice to be called majority. Just look at the posts. Im not only one who has identified you to be as such.

My example quoted is intended for considering the situation in the shoes of the developers (the shop owner) not you the customer. Just because you do not buy in on a particular item they are selling does not mean they must remove it. There are those who have found it useful (somewhere in the earlier posts in the thread).

And most importantly, the developers have placed their foot down on this MA: It is here to stay. It is deeply binded into the research tree forcing a mandatorial research be done.

They do recognize the disappointment of it but as to how and when they can actually correct this is unknown since it was never announced. If they did not why would they bother asking for feedback to improve not remove.

a) Provide evidence that "my version of the majority" is incorrect and evidence that I am not providing coherent arguments each post. I can provide evidence that the opponents of making the MA deletable post statements that are not true and can not field a coherent argument against the MA being deletable, thus it is not I who is post increasing. Please point me to ANY information that says my request is not held by the majority. I can point to two polls saying it is, until you provide evidence otherwise, I am correct.
b) Explain how I misquoted you by quoting your typed response.
c) You say from the shop owners perspective, I say from customers perspective. Assuming I agree with you (I don't, the shop only succeeds if they can satisfy the customer, but I digress) it still doesn't matter. While the customer is not "always right" the shop owner is ENTIRELY dependent on the customer. So saying "you should see it from the devs perspective" is just plain ignorant of how business works. You are using the same argument as the other dev supporter, that is of distraction. You are implying I don't like the MA (which is true), which you then link with saying I shouldn't have a vote to remove it (from the game). You deliberately ignored that I DON'T want it removed from the game, I want it OPTIONALLY be able to be deleted. In your example, that would be looking at it from the shop owners view and allowing your customers extra options that cost you (the shop owner) nothing. Or the other customers. I NEVER said it should be removed from people who find it useful, try not to misquote me.
d) i) The devs have NOT put their foot down. Provide proof of your assertion. They have said they will improve it, because they acknowledge that people don't like it (perhaps that majority I can prove and you can't?)
d) ii) Again, distraction! It is IRRELEVANT that it is mandatory, the majority is asking for it to be DELETABLE, not removed.
e) Rambling statement. Here is my guess what you are trying to say (please correct me, if I get it wrong) The devs know it is not as good as they hoped, they are planning on fixing it and have yet to announce how and when. So what? That means NOTHING! The aim I have is to get the MA deletable, by those who do not wish to use it.
The fact that the devs want it to be useful is awesome, I fully support that.
The fact that the devs know it is currently NOT awesome, is a great sign that they are at least partially listening.
You supporting having a feature that by YOUR admission is "not awesome yet" and FORCING people to live with it until "some point in the future" (that was you too) when there is a logical solution that makes EVERYONE happy... it doesn't make sense.

TLR
Right now there are happy people and angry people. You want to leave those angry people angry. I want to leave the happy people happy and turn the angry people happy. If the MA is deletable, it will make angry people happy and disadvantage NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON. Show me how making the MA deletable will make happy people angry and you may have a point.

 

[DeletedUser]

I want my position to be CRYSTAL CLEAR.

What I want is for the MA to be deletable. That's it.

It can stay as a mandatory quest.
It can stay as a building that MUST be built at some point.

I can't see why an action that has ZERO disadvantages has so many people attacking me. When ANYONE can show a significant disadvantage to allowing the MA to be deletable, I will swap sides.
It is that simple.
Prove to me that the majority supports the refusal to allow deletion (polls indicate otherwise) and I will switch sides.

MOVED BY THE MODS because they clearly want this to go back and forth, rather than have me shut up about it... SIGH

 

[DeletedUser1295]

Although I realize that sometimes emotions might get the upper hand on reason in this rather 'heated' discussion :
I kindly remind all posters in this thread to keep their posts in accordance with the forum rules, specifically:

• Remain polite and constructive;
• Synonyms and/or acronyms for certain offending words are not allowed and will be replaced/removed.

And then a slight reminder for some:
• Avoid repeating topics! Before you post a new topic please make sure that there has not already been a similar topic.
• Whenever a post is moderated, the poster will always receive an alert as to the reason for the moderation.

The moderation team hardly ever gives warnings and I for one would like to keep it that way, giving all forum users much lenience in expressing their opinions.

I'm counting on everyone's cooperation!

 

[DeletedUser]

If we have to have the MA, that's one less choice.

Nope - The Magic Academy enables a BUNCH of other choices. There are currently 3 spells and more are on the way.

To use an analogy, even though you pick a college major, you STILL have to take a smattering of "unwanted" courses that have "nothing" to do with your major.

• You might accidently get interested
• You'll be a more interesting person
• You'll be able to communicate with the folks who ARE nutso about those subjects

There are any number of arguments in favor of folks who are well-rounded, ranging from the negative "willfully ignorant" to the positive "travel is the best antidote for prejudice." It's over doing it a bit to elevate the Magic Academy to that level, but the Tournaments and the Magic Academy spell are like bread and butter; they're meant for each other.

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

Nope - The Magic Academy enables a BUNCH of other choices. There are currently 3 spells and more are on the way.

Allowing us to delete and rebuild the Academy also enables choices.

the Tournaments and the Magic Academy spell are like bread and butter; they're meant for each other.

No, they are not. You can participate in tournaments without using spells, and you can use spells without participating in tournaments. Saying that they are meant for each other is like saying that spells and completing provinces are meant for each other.


I'm still waiting for someone to give an explanation why allowing us to delete the Academy is a problem. Why is giving us more choices a bad thing?

 

[DeletedUser]

You can participate in tournaments without using spells

• The Tournaments are a source of additional relics
• The Spells are a sink for those same relics

Consequently, there's a three step cycle.

1. Gain some relics (Boosts are capped at 700%)
2. Create some spells (Most of them take a full day or more)
3. Use those spells to ease your way, rather than overbuilding

The developers obviously want this cycle to be part of your everyday routine, rather than something that you only do when you're desperate enough to (re)build a Magic Academy.

 

[DeletedUser1683]

Nope - The Magic Academy enables a BUNCH of other choices. There are currently 3 spells and more are on the way.

To use an analogy, even though you pick a college major, you STILL have to take a smattering of "unwanted" courses that have "nothing" to do with your major.

• You might accidently get interested
• You'll be a more interesting person
• You'll be able to communicate with the folks who ARE nutso about those subjects

There are any number of arguments in favor of folks who are well-rounded, ranging from the negative "willfully ignorant" to the positive "travel is the best antidote for prejudice." It's over doing it a bit to elevate the Magic Academy to that level, but the Tournaments and the Magic Academy spell are like bread and butter; they're meant for each other.

If you are forcing me to have it, it is not a choice.

What you are waffling on about for the rest of your spurious posting I will never know.

Although I realize that sometimes emotions might get the upper hand on reason in this rather 'heated' discussion :
I kindly remind all posters in this thread to keep their posts in accordance with the forum rules, specifically:

• Remain polite and constructive;
• Synonyms and/or acronyms for certain offending words are not allowed and will be replaced/removed.

And then a slight reminder for some:
• Avoid repeating topics! Before you post a new topic please make sure that there has not already been a similar topic.
• Whenever a post is moderated, the poster will always receive an alert as to the reason for the moderation.

The moderation team hardly ever gives warnings and I for one would like to keep it that way, giving all forum users much lenience in expressing their opinions.

I'm counting on everyone's cooperation!

Please notify when messages or topics are deleted, moved or edited.

It is not saticfactory for a Moderator to change a customers posts without at least letting them know. Out of politeness if nothing else.!

Guys, I'd really appreciate it if you would stay on the original topic.

Many thanks

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd really appreciate it if you would stay on the original topic.

Perhaps you don't want to build a Magic Academy
BECAUSE you don't even understand why it's there in the first place.

WHY it's there is very much on topic,
and the why of it is the relics cycle for Tournaments, Spells, Buffs.

 

[DeletedUser1775]

I for one, knows exactly what MA spells are for. And i simply don't need them. Forcing me using them just because it will balance out the game just don't make sense in my case, and it just won't work, because i much rather use the space for something else (as a matter of fact, i've got a wonder waiting to built, just need the space)

But i do agree with the proverbial dead horse though. The makers has made it quite clear that it is here to stay, hence it useless to argue otherwise. Just as useless it is to force MA down people's throat. It is a one sure way to make people despise it more though.

It's best to leave things as is and see where they are taking MA in the future. Any future discussion would just be pointless arguments from both for and against.

 

[DeletedUser]

Eh. I claim a besieged victory.

The two "I am not a dev I SWEAR" types (S5carrot and Katwijk) are still using the same tactics of distraction and off topic conversation, with insults thrown in. The mods SAY they care about insults and off topic conversation, but do nothing.

I am done here.

Well, until I put my poll about the combat system up and they come out of the woodwork again..

 

[Deleted User - 13667]

Eh. I claim a besieged victory.

The two "I am not a dev I SWEAR" types (S5carrot and Katwijk) are still using the same tactics of distraction and off topic conversation, with insults thrown in. The mods SAY they care about insults and off topic conversation, but do nothing.

I am done here.

Well, until I put my poll about the combat system up and they come out of the woodwork again..

You failed to read and understand the entire post. Quoting a mere line claiming how fantastic your idea is does not help. Your posts apart from slander and emotions reflect nothing of claimed evidences.

 

[DeletedUser]

You failed to read and understand the entire post. Quoting a mere line claiming how fantastic your idea is does not help. Your posts apart from slander and emotions reflect nothing of claimed evidences.

Blah blah "The evidence from the poll I will ignore" blah blah, which is why I don't bother with this anymore.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Ok someone pointed out the argument

• If everybody has a Magic Academy, then it's a level playing field. The size doesn't even matter so long as everybody has one. Why ever do you think you deserve an on-going advantage over new players, just because you happened to be around before the Magic Academy was introduced?

I love to point out that this argument is the worst argument ever, because NOT everyone has the magic academy, nor will everybody build one, on my main account I dont have it, nor will I ever build it.
My quests are already on a point that they are more than self sustaining(so there is no need to advance in the questline)
, so I dont need new quests or better quest and I can handle the game just fine without thats dumb useless building, why would I sacrifice a 5x5 space in my city for a building I do not want nor care fore.

I like to point out that I do not see a way for the magic academy to become ever a viable source for my game unless it's something that pushes the boundries of the limitations build in the game (aka reduces scout times / costs, creates ranking points or something similar.) I rather use the space that buiding wastes on 3 more houses for 1650 more workers and 2280 more ranking points and an improved permanent goods production.

So I do have an advantage over those who are forced to build it, or those who build it without knowing and are now stuck with it.

I still stick with the simeple solution of making it a 2x2 portal to the Elvenar Academy.(potentially like a wonder placed in the background)
I believe the main souce of hatred agains it is the size, it's simply to large.
I dont mind loosing a 2x2 grid space I can find some little corner for it somewhere. but 5x5 is simply to huge for a building that will never deliver more that stuff I dont need.

 

[DeletedUser]

unless it's something that pushes the boundries of the limitations build in the game

The Magic Academy is part of a triple: Tournaments, Magic Academy, Ancient Wonders

• Tournaments will generate Relics, Rune Shards, and Knowledge Points
• Ancient Wonders will consume Relics, Rune Shards, and Knowledge Points, and will provide general buffs
• The Magic Academy will consume Relics, and will provide SPECIFIC buffs (spells)
• Those buffs will allow you to be more effective in your Tournaments.

Plowing through the Tech Tree is a one time thing and, while it's interesting in it's own right, there will always be a brick wall at the end of the current final chapter.

The Relics Triple is UNLIMITED. It can soak up however much time you have to spare. As such you're either going to have Relics that you can't consume, without a Magic Academy, OR you're going to have a Spell or three that you simply can't resist, and you'll end up building a Magic Academy.

It's as inevitable as death and taxes, so it makes a LOT of sense to present the Magic Academy as a mandatory building, even though it's only the second piece of the triple.

Would you build a Magic Academy if you could cast Fireballs??

 

[DeletedUser1775]

The Magic Academy is part of a triple: Tournaments, Magic Academy, Ancient Wonders


It's as inevitable as death and taxes, so it makes a LOT of sense to present the Magic Academy as a mandatory building, even though it's only the second piece of the triple.

Would you build a Magic Academy if you could cast Fireballs??

View attachment 1413

I've got 12 Workshop with fully active fellowship where i can gain more supplies, so Supply spell is useless to me. i convert them to goods just so i dont waste them everday
I've got enough factories production outputs around 50k of each 3 tier, every day, So Goods spell is also useless to me.
I've got 72 residential along with 180 neighbours with max main hall, so coin is no problem for me, i convert them daily into KP just so i dont waste them. So, needless to say, Culture spell is also useless to me.

Please tell me, as it stand now, does it make a LOT of sense for MA to be a mandatory building to me.

I get that we need a relic sink, but is it at the cost of me spending them just cause it needs to be spent somehow, even if its for something useless.


As for your question, Would i build/use MA if it could cast fireballs? well, no.. cos i don't battle either (so i don't really need barracks nor armories too, but that's an argument for another day).

I will start using them when they actually have something useful for me to use.


Until then, telling me it makes a lot of sense ain't gonna make it so.

 

[DeletedUser]

i don't battle either (so i don't really need barracks nor armories

You can cater all of the Tournaments. It's not very efficient, mind you, but it's the same option that you've been using to get past the Advanced Scouting Gates in your Tech Tree. Using Auto-Fight is actually a pretty interesting puzzle, unless you're objecting as a matter of principle.

We already have "a" Manufacturing Spell, but it's pretty boring and it's not going to do the job in the long run, for Tournaments.

 

[DeletedUser1775]

You can cater all of the Tournaments. It's not very efficient, mind you, but it's the same option that you've been using to get past the Advanced Scouting Gates in your Tech Tree. Using Auto-Fight is actually a pretty interesting puzzle, unless you're objecting as a matter of principle.

We already have "a" Manufacturing Spell, but it's pretty boring and it's not going to do the job in the long run, for Tournaments.

I am actually quite excited with tournament. I am starting to upgrade my abandoned barracks and armories. I am very crappy at fighting but i will do my best to learn

MA needs stuff to make it interesting too, then i would use it

 

[DeletedUser]

I am very crappy at fighting but i will do my best to learn

If you like to read up on stuff ahead of time, I have a whole pile of combat related links, from several forums, plus an analysis of how the actual fights are resolved squad by squad, over at

Spoiler: Squad by

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/battle-troop-training-costs.2435/#post-14681