Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[DeletedUser3]

How will this affect the current armories?

The training speed and training sizes will also be rebalanced. The game is currently balanced so that you would be able to make X squads per day on average - that number will not change. So, if that means you need more units to fill a squad, we will make sure that you are able to recruit enough units in that time to fill the squads.

How will this affect the enemy army sizes in provinces?

Enemy army sizes in provinces will be rebalanced too (which I think also goes some way to answering your second question)

 

[Valnad]

Thank you, Amy. Appreciate the feedback!

 

[Valnad]

I don't think there is any reason to waste your current units. I would just continue to play normally at this point. Especially as these changes are weeks away, at best. The only thing they are really saying is that the advanced units will become 'cheaper' on a per unit basis as they say they are no longer going to be increasing the per unit cost as they go from sword dancer I to sword dancer II to sword acrobat. This would lead me to think that you may not want to build a whole bunch more advanced units when the implementation is imminent as the advanced unit's cost will be lower than before.

Absolutely.

The best advice to give at this point is to not stock up on expensive troops, just for the sake of building a powerful army. But killing off troops that you've already paid for? That's just waste, no matter how to choose to look at it

 

[DeletedUser1353]

I still think it's a good idea to use (not waste) the units as much as possible before the update, if you get stuff done with them it's not a waste.
Since after the update these troops will not be as effective, since squads of both your troops and the enemy troops will grow.

Example:

Situation 1
You have 500 blessed paladins now with a squadsize of 50, in your battle you face orcs with 500 in each squad, you came out ahead in this battle but loose half your troops (250/2=125), 250 because of 50x5, 5 being the max squads for a battle.

Situation 2
You decide not to use your troops before the update so you still have 500 blessed paladins, the same battle where you faced 500 orcs per squad you now face 1000 orcs per squad but you are able to use 100 blessed paladins in each of your squads so you use all 500 and once again you loose half:
500/2=250.

Before the update you loose 125 paladins per battle and after you loose 250.

This is only an example ofc, I know blessed paladins own orcs AND I dont know exactly how much the difference in enemy squad size will be either.

Hope this made any sense.

 

[DeletedUser]

I find this all very confusing and it seems to be further evidence that Elvenar was taken out of beta way too early. The ingame currency in this game is much to expensive for a game that is actually still in beta and is constantly radically changing and backtracking on established features. I'm not against change, but I am against what appears to be greed, aka gaining profit largely on the basis that a completely unfinished product. No other sector sees this kind of - basically ripping off - of people as much as the "free" gaming scene, at least none springs to mind for me right now. The changes in elvenar rarely feel like positive, evolutionary changes, they feel more like the result of a product that was rushed onto the market without being thought through (to generate revenue quickly), and then fixed (to generate more revenue). Ofc course everyone wants to make money, but I'm struggling to pinpoint a concept of quality here.

 

[DeletedUser1925]

New fighting building

• Training Grounds (both races):

• Cerberus (whiny dog)

Disaster...

It was fine for someone to buy bunch of Snail palaces or other culture premium buildings... now that player will have to delete them to open space for this crap... no refunds... If this is not stealing at broad day light...

 

[DeletedUser]

One building just to train cerberus?

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

... and because cerberus won't fight without their nailed necklace, you'll also need the necklaces factory... happily, you'll be able to get 1 day free dogfood by sending one builder on a 24h hunt mission

 

[DeletedUser438]

I highly doubt that the developers will read any of the feedback, they have given us plenty of examples that when it comes to actual game development and where this game is headed it is pretty much set in stone and our say in it goes as far as the occasional event (which are pretty nice) but no further.

On the off chance that they do I would like to say a few things. It is obvious that the current battle system was never meant to be the final design, so a revamp was to be expected at some point. We, human beings, don`t really like change, especially one that brings so much uncertainty. So it is absolutely normal for it to be met with a lot of negativism, especially when we are not being told the most important thing.

The reason why the current battle system is tolerable, even with all the bugs( e.g. debuffs not clearing), all the things that can annoy you beyond reason ( the last unit of an enemy squad doing as much damage as half of it even with -70% attack damage debuff o.0) is because of the results of the auto combat feature. With the amount of battles we have to do on regular basis (8 per province, tournament or scouting) the more advanced players will be overwhelmed if it is not present in the new battle system. Furthermore, at the moment we are used to being able to advance at a certain pace ( 1 province per day, X amount of provinces to n-th level per tournament) all thanks to the auto combat feature. When this change hits the servers if the pace of province completion drops drastically and the amount of KPs and relics, and runes we are able to acquire throughout a tournament have diminished substantially, people will rapidly lose interest in the game. There is not a worse feeling in a game than that of having something stolen from you and there is nothing you can do to get it back.

The auto combat feature is the only reason why players are not being overwhelmed by the amount of battles and the number of enemies that we face. If the outcome of the reworked combat system results in players not being able to advance at at least a reasonable pace (for me it might be at at least 80% of what it used to be, for somebody else: 70%, for another: 90%) compared to the previous combat system, all of those players will lose interest in the game, I guarantee it.

Edit: Zanyah - 2016-09-03 - replaced an inappropriate word ​

 

[DeletedUser219]

Hang on, I have to disagree. The auto combat 'feature' is only valuable if you really want to lose troops. In my human guise on Arendyll I only used autofight in the first few rings, then decided it would be cheaper to wade through the battles myself to save troops. In my Elven games I have never used the feature.

I can, however, see how someone using autofight would become bored and disenchanted with the combat system.

I am welcoming these changes, because it will make fighting more interesting in the human game (no more select 3 squads Paladins and 2 squads Priests, and let them do their thing), and more viable in the Elven game.

 

[DeletedUser]

I pretty much auto fight my way through the tournament because I just can't be bothered to spend the time to fight each encounter, I did in excess of 400 encounters in the last tournament and would have spent hours sitting here watching the troops do what they do, I agree that the whole battle system needs shaking up as I gave up fighting in the provinces when I was half way through ring 12 and instead just build troops to auto-fight my way through the tournaments.

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

Because the autofight is sending your troops forward like zombies, it is only efficient if you don't need to use tactical strategies like standing or avoiding some opponents... But it can work as well as us with full paladins vs full melee or full cerberus vs full ranged where your troops have simply to run like hell and to fire at will by example.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

auto-fight has its use in tournaments so you can fight a large number of provinces in a reasonable timeframe. I am concerned this will become less viable post combat update although I can also see why this would be the case as it is imbalanced currently.

Edit: Fixed the extra s

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

[...] the case ass it is imbalanced currently.

Mykan, beware of how many "s" you put into your "as"... english people have the legs directly attached to the chest and are censuring common people like us who have an evilish body-part to sit on
While waiting your verdict for this felony assault against english, I will try at least to put God on your side : "Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
Okay, you still face the death penalty but your soul is safe...

 

[Killiak]

The training speed and training sizes will also be rebalanced. The game is currently balanced so that you would be able to make X squads per day on average - that number will not change. So, if that means you need more units to fill a squad, we will make sure that you are able to recruit enough units in that time to fill the squads.


Enemy army sizes in provinces will be rebalanced too (which I think also goes some way to answering your second question)

Basically, changing the numbers we see on the screen, but cost/time/effort will remain the same.
So what is the point then? After a certain amount of provinces, and most certainly on specific provinces, the troop losses become very high and some type of provinces become (near) unassailable due to the enemy troop combinations.

Only battling when the combo's are in your favor, then negotiating the remaining 80% of provinces is the most resource-efficient right now.
This "rebalancing" will need to make fighting just as viable as negotiating if you want my praise. Assuming Inno actually cares about player's praise.


And then there is the issue of ANOTHER building, whilst space, population and culture is already sparse. From the looks of it, this is also a very large building, which will be another ill fit for both races.

The only bright side I see for myself is that I get acces to the Mortar unit. Elves can now get the Cerberus, which in comparison seems a bit on the weak side. However, I am already assuming that the player version of the Mortar will not nearly be as strong as the one we meet in provinces.

So far, I am not very impressed. Please prove me wrong when it goes live.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

If the mortar is anything like canoneers you will be dreaming for a unit with the special ability to make all hits on a target roll the maximum damage

 

[Killiak]

Still waiting for more in-depth numbers and explanations.

The video only told us that it is happening in three parts and that we should not train too many troops right now. Where's the crunchy bit?

 

[DeletedUser2333]

Do we now have a date for this change?

 

[DeletedUser363]

Do we now have a date for this change?

Not yet, we're just being forewarned

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

One thing I will say about the new combat system: Expect loses. In Chapter I you have only Light Melee and Light Ranged available, and units such as Steinling and Canonner have bonuses precisely against those two types of units. Winning without loses is practically impossible now.

Also starting squad size for your army is 6. Increases to 9 after first upgrade and to 15 after second upgrade. It should increase to 24 after third upgrade, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

As a result of the above the begining of the game is slower as you need time to train units and upgrade squad size. Base training size is now 6. Armory level 1 increases training size in the Barracks by 3, for a total of 9 units per group trained. Armory level 2 increases training size by 4 (improvement of just 1 compared to previous level).

Also, scouting times for the currently available chapters should always be below a day. If your scouting times are above a day, you have advanced too far on the world map and are beyond where the devs expect you to be. Please read [Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign on the Beta forum.