Question Barracks of Mercs troops ?

[DeletedUser]

OMG this takes forever; Documenting fights with all the details

 

[Gargon667]

IT's more a defence thing. if you have more than 100 defence you have DR, if you have less then 100 defence you got a weakness.

so 80% dr is not added by itself but as 80 defence.

the defence modifier then is added to the defence

So a 80% dr has a 180 defence vs unit X
So then the damage modifier is applied to that defence.

180*0.6*108 leaving 8 above 100 defence and therefore a 8% DR.

It still works that way, there hasnt been change tot the combat system in years.
The funny part is the combat system was overhauled to make flying units possible (drone rider/blossom mages)
We had to wait almost a year after the fairy chapter for those units to be released, and you can pretty much guess what happened to the flying part.
Even after the overhaul of the combat code, they still could not make it work.

How bad is that? so I do not expect them to ever touch that code again, because of you rewrite it from scratch and still are unable to do what you started it for....

Ah yes I guess that makes some kind of sense. 100% base defense (not base damage) then you can add a defense bonus to that. Strange way of doing things, but well. it does lead to the above mentioned problems but it does also prevent immortal units from happening.

I wonder how the damage reduction (not the defense reduction) special ability is calculated into this then (like a 80% defense bonus and then a 40% damage reduction special ability). Just added to the other defense buffs or multiplied separately? would it be 100*2.2 or would it be 100*1.8*1.4?

They clearly had a lot more ideas for the fighting part at some point. Like the unit weight that all units have, but isn´t used for anything anywhere...

 

[CrazyWizard]

Ah yes I guess that makes some kind of sense. 100% base defense (not base damage) then you can add a defense bonus to that. Strange way of doing things, but well. it does lead to the above mentioned problems but it does also prevent immortal units from happening.

I wonder how the damage reduction (not the defense reduction) special ability is calculated into this then (like a 80% defense bonus and then a 40% damage reduction special ability). Just added to the other defense buffs or multiplied separately? would it be 100*2.2 or would it be 100*1.8*1.4?

They clearly had a lot more ideas for the fighting part at some point. Like the unit weight that all units have, but isn´t used for anything anywhere...

Similar.

Attack is 100 + damage bonus = value * 1-damage reduction

So a 40% damage reduction on a lets say pro ranger vs a mage = 100+90=190 *0.6= 114% damage.

It uses the same concept. but damage prevention is not as powerfull and defence destruction as it doesnt kill your enemy directly.
But it does work, thats why I now sometimes use banshees vs for example a hellhound I can't kill. then I use the 50% lower attack power to buy myself another round.

Similar with dryads sometimes you just use that special power to limit the damage for that round to go in for the kill in the next one.

Prioritising your kills on specs also makes sense. for example my rangers kill the enemy sorceres first as it does both the highest damage and had the wordt specs. enemy blossoms are actualy the weakers with the weakest specs so those go last.

Special powers make all the difference and it's very important to take count of it, thinks to this conversation I looked up all the enemy specs and changed my behavior accordingly. and thankfully enemies rarely have defence debuffs ans almost always attack debuffs. those are very annoying, but not as deadly.

 

[DeletedUser]

What about the AW's @CrazyWizard

Ex. i just placed Toads, 106% Heavy Ranged unit damage. So that's 6% extra damage they can give to the enemy.

If it is like with the other AW's, then those % is added to the base value. How much does this actually give in the calculation and advantage ?

 

[CrazyWizard]

Never looked into it so no clue, I can only make assumptions.
I assume thats part of the base damage, the damage you go into battle with.

however it's calculated I not sure it makes a difference as it's not applied to your opponent.

 

[Gargon667]

Attack is 100 + damage bonus = value * 1-damage reduction

So a 40% damage reduction on a lets say pro ranger vs a mage = 100+90=190 *0.6= 114% damage.

Nope not defense reduction, I am talking about damage reduction, the "useless" one of the two kinds of special ability. The one I rarely use myself (Only Orc Strats of the useful units have it anyway) and the enemies I always leave alone in round 1, if I have a choice
I was wondering if you knew if it was added to or multiplied separately (which would make it slightly more useful) from the defense bonus a unit has
Or to say the same thing differently: do you know if all those boni are triggered at the same time or in a certain order after one another?

 

[Gargon667]

Never looked into it so no clue, I can only make assumptions.
I assume thats part of the base damage, the damage you go into battle with.

however it's calculated I not sure it makes a difference as it's not applied to your opponent.

Same here, I would assume that all 5-day-booster buildings, AWs and Firebird are all applied once to all units before the start of the battle, they kind of produce a "new" base damage/hitpoints for all units in this battle. My guess is they will stay the same for the entire battle even if they change outside the battle (say building/firebird expires during the battle), I have not tested it, but it would be very strange programming otherwise...

After that those "new" base stats will be modified further by special abilities and boni against certain enemies during the battle, these will have to be calculated by the game anew every time one unit hits another as they change depending on the unique situation. In theory things could be programmed differently for the special abilities (they do stay with a unit for potentially more than 1 hit and could therefore in theory create another "new" base value, but it would have to be changed rather frequently and constalntly produce "more new" base values), but I find it unlikely.

But all this is speculation.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Nope not defense reduction, I am talking about damage reduction, the "useless" one of the two kinds of special ability. The one I rarely use myself (Only Orc Strats of the useful units have it anyway) and the enemies I always leave alone in round 1, if I have a choice
I was wondering if you knew if it was added to or multiplied separately (which would make it slightly more useful) from the defense bonus a unit has
Or to say the same thing differently: do you know if all those boni are triggered at the same time or in a certain order after one another?

I only see a defence of attack reduction.

Attack reduction is exactly the same thing, as shown earlier with the pro ranger

 

[Gargon667]

View attachment 5231View attachment 5232

I only see a defence of attack reduction.

Attack reduction is exactly the same thing, as shown earlier with the pro ranger

Ah I see I was wondering, I thought it was just a copy paste from before that got taken out of context ... So you are saying there are two separate calculations for attack and defense mods. So let me put all this into 1 comprehensive summary of what I think you say and the rest I just guess lol:

1. First step is to calculate a battle damage from the base damage (as given in the wiki)
Battle damage=base damage*(5-day-bonus+firebird+AWbonus)

2. Basically we would be running two calculations before every hit to determine the actual attack and defense modifiers. These mods can both be either above or below one and therefore both contribute positively or negatively to the outcome.
2.1. The attack or damage modifier calculation
Damage mod= 100(base damage modifier)*increase(attacking units bonus against defending unit type)*decrease(active damage reduction special ability)
2.2. The defense modifier calculation
Defense mod= 100(base defense modifier)*increase(defending units bonus against attacking unit type)*decrease(defense reduction special ability)

3. Then we would calculate the actual damage dealt in a third step. I am not sure how that calculation would look at all, so the simplest guess:
Damage done = battle damage*damage modifier/defense modifier

I am already doubting what I see here, this does not seem to correspond to what I actually see in battle. Especially the fact that I see no reason in this calculation why defense reduction special ability should be more powerful than attack reduction (which I am sure it is).
According to this calculation an attack reduction of say -40% would affect the outcome of a high damage hit as much as a -40% defense reduction would affect the outcome of a high defense hit.
Well I think that I need to think more about the percentage calculations involved here. It is still possible that defense reduction is more powerful. Percentages always take a while to wrap my head around.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Ah I see I was wondering, I thought it was just a copy paste from before that got taken out of context ... So you are saying there are two separate calculations for attack and defense mods. So let me put all this into 1 comprehensive summary of what I think you say and the rest I just guess lol:

1. First step is to calculate a battle damage from the base damage (as given in the wiki)
Battle damage=base damage*(5-day-bonus+firebird+AWbonus)

2. Basically we would be running two calculations before every hit to determine the actual attack and defense modifiers. These mods can both be either above or below one and therefore both contribute positively or negatively to the outcome.
2.1. The attack or damage modifier calculation
Damage mod= 100(base damage modifier)*increase(attacking units bonus against defending unit type)*decrease(active damage reduction special ability)
2.2. The defense modifier calculation
Defense mod= 100(base defense modifier)*increase(defending units bonus against attacking unit type)*decrease(defense reduction special ability)

3. Then we would calculate the actual damage dealt in a third step. I am not sure how that calculation would look at all, so the simplest guess:
Damage done = battle damage*damage modifier/defense modifier

I am already doubting what I see here, this does not seem to correspond to what I actually see in battle. Especially the fact that I see no reason in this calculation why defense reduction special ability should be more powerful than attack reduction (which I am sure it is).
According to this calculation an attack reduction of say -40% would affect the outcome of a high damage hit as much as a -40% defense reduction would affect the outcome of a high defense hit.
Well I think that I need to think more about the percentage calculations involved here. It is still possible that defense reduction is more powerful. Percentages always take a while to wrap my head around.

I remember again, they are multiplied.

In the past is was added.

So a 60% DR + 40% attack debuff was 100%

They changed it to a multiplier to avoid a 100% damage because you could never get to 1.
But it's way to long ago.

not sure how tho, I have to look into that and for that I do not have time.
You could look around the time of the previous link on the beta forum, there is a 43 game change topic and somewhere in there it is explained.

 

[Gargon667]

FA now, no time for hobbies maybe next week I will remember and see if I can figure something out.

 

[DeletedUser]

EDIT: Deleted

EDIT 2: Made it a question in itself: https://en.forum.elvenar.com/index....oop-types-needed-at-different-chapters.14224/

 

[Gargon667]

I would say personal preferences and random luck of what enemies you get.