Version 1.39

[DeletedUser4890]

I have the Bell Spire in A, and the Crystal Lighthouse in W - I was very pleased with them both, they were bringing in a good steady supply of extra goods through my many visits - they were a really useful addition to my cities - now, not so much. If a chest deigns to pop up during a visit I get some goods, rarely an amount of bonus goods might be acquired during a visit even if there is no chest, but the total goods I receive when I am finished with my visits are nowhere near the amount I got before this 'upgrade' to their functionality. This seems to me to have been a completely pointless change to the functionality - it wasn't broken, it was great, so why 'fix' it?? You had a logical and reliable reward system for these AWs and now you have... whatever this is!

 

[DeletedUser3032]

It seems to be a case of the moderator getting a little power crazy for some reason. If they were to go through all the threads about topics that have caused anger among players they would see loads of posts that THEY would consider to be off topic.
To keep this post on topic i think it would be very interesting to hear the views of the moderators on this change to the BS/CL. If you have one of these AWs are you happy that
1. You have lost goods (if you help more than 30 players)
2. You spent hundreds of KPs to upgrade your AW (if you upgraded it) and now that AW is almost a waste of the space it takes up.
3. You were lied to when Timon said to build all the AWs and upgrade them as they were going to become fantastic and powerful.
4. You were lied to when the divs said you would get more goods after this change or maybe lose a tiny amount.
5. the divs claim to know the reason that you do NH without actually asking you.
I could go on but i think you must get the message now.
So come on moderators share your thoughts about this change with the players that you seem to like thinking you rule over or are you prohibited from expressing your opinions by Inno?

Mods will not voice their opinion because they need to stay 'some what' neutral. I'm pretty sure those with the affected wonder will be just as annoyed as everyone else. If they are not annoyed then they're probably the only people Inno consulted before the changing of the AWs (Not players) and voted yes for the change, probably because they don't have the AWs

 

[DeletedUser3720]

I am unhappy with the recent changes, also. I started playing in March this year, so I haven't seen the "original" BS / CL and the bonuses they gave. I decided to build the CL in my city and it definitely was my favorite AW, thanks to the additional goods it provided. Now, I am not sure if I will add even one KP to this AW. I find it pointless.

 

[DeletedUser3097]

Mods will not voice their opinion because they need to stay 'some what' neutral.

That is exactly the case, King0r. I volunteered to help on the forum, not to express any opinions as I have a player account for that, but to help my fellow players. There has been a lot of strong feelings and reactions both for and against some of the recent changes and part of my role is to make sure that these keep within the forum rules. At times, it is necessary to moderate threads, after all I am a moderator!

I didn't become a forum moderator to gain 'power'- I have been a moderator for another online game for years, have achieved everything I wanted in my career so have no ambitions in that line- I became a moderator because I have the time, and I wished to help. I'm not asking for thanks but I do expect to be treated with respect. Unfortunately, some people recently have not done that.

 

[DeletedUser3185]

Perhaps if everyone made sure that they don't buy diamonds for a month, the suggestions and comments may be looked at a bit more serioiusly

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Perhaps if everyone made sure that they don't buy diamonds for a month, the suggestions and comments may be looked at a bit more serioiusly

One problem with that. A lot of the diamond sales (prob 70%+) come from new registrations and most of them leave within a week. Browser games are all about the turnover of new players, not players who have been here for months. Retention rate is crap but 1000 players a month buying small packages is better than a couple buying the most expensive. New players tend to buy small packages straight away, realise it's not for them and leave. So there is no way to inform new players before they purchase diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser3185]

One problem with that. A lot of the diamond sales (prob 70%+) come from new registrations and most of them leave within a week. Browser games are all about the turnover of new players, not players who have been here for months. Retention rate is crap but 1000 players a month buying small packages is better than a couple buying the most expensive. New players tend to buy small packages straight away, realise it's not for them and leave. So there is no way to inform new players before they purchase diamonds.

That's a shame :-(

 

[Thezza]

There has been a lot of strong feelings and reactions both for and against some of the recent changes and part of my role is to make sure that these keep within the forum rules. At times, it is necessary to moderate threads, after all I am a moderator!

You see Dizzy, that's part of the problem....where are these strong feelings and reactions FOR the changes???? I haven't seen them..please tell me where they are.
Moderators are the only contact we have, we have asked and asked and asked for someone to explain what possible rationale there is behind this and we get nothing!!! You are taking the brunt because you are the ones removing posts and we are getting nothing. You cannot open a thread, ask for opinions and then just remove the posts you don't like and ignore the rest.
People are leaving the game, people want answers..it is no good saying the Devs want our feedback, because if they had listened they would never have rolled this out from Beta.
I strongly suggest all the Mods insist on someone from the Devs actually put their head above the walls and TALK to us!!!!

 

[DeletedUser4528]

You see Dizzy, that's part of the problem....where are these strong feelings and reactions FOR the changes???? I haven't seen them..please tell me where they are.

Not everyone expresses their opinion on the forum, and to be quite frank, the attitude of some people has been a little too forceful, meaning that others are scared to post their opinion in fear of being verbally attacked. . That we will address moving forward .

Moderators are the only contact we have, we have asked and asked and asked for someone to explain what possible rationale there is behind this and we get nothing!!! You are taking the brunt because you are the ones removing posts and we are getting nothing. You cannot open a thread, ask for opinions and then just remove the posts you don't like and ignore the rest.

Regardless of opinion, or intent, there are rules that govern all of us on the forum, and where deemed necessary they will be enforced. This can and will lead to posts being removed. So the advice is, have your say, but do so in a respectful and calm manner.

I strongly suggest all the Mods insist on someone from the Devs actually put their head above the walls and TALK to us!!!!

This following, is taken from a statement that I made yesterday. When the moderators write on here, it is with the full backing and consent of the development team, and anything they need to say, will be said through one of us. That is how the system works.

"One of the main reasons that the AW was changed, is that it was too strong, and the rewards were too high. So some players were getting far more than was ever imagined. The mobile app is being tested in the UK and France, and the visits to neighbours take around 1 to 1.5 seconds each, so you can easily work out that the small number of people (and yes, it was very small) spending such a long time every day doing visits was going to shoot through the roof. "

Yes, there are other reasons, as with any major decision, which this was, multiple factors are taken into consideration, and it can be extremely frustrating when you are not party to all of those reasons. However, we can only work and function together as a team, if we work together.

 

[Thezza]

So.....let me get this right..
1. If you don't play on your mobile it will still take you ages to visit everyone for no reward.
2. People are scared to put their views on the Forum...so 'that will be addressed moving forward'...sounds threatening..
3. There are reasons for the change but you are not to know them!!!!!
4. We must work together as a team, but not a team where both halves work together or bother to communicate
5. Shut up and just accept this or go play somewhere else, after all it's our ball and if we say you can't play that's all there is to it.

Not going to quit the game just yet, I like my FS members too much...but no more diamonds..ever...and as for the Forums...well..

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Not everyone expresses their opinion on the forum, and to be quite frank, the attitude of some people has been a little too forceful, meaning that others are scared to post their opinion in fear of being verbally attacked. . That we will address moving forward .

Um... where do I start....

1. Not everyone is on forums, so they have nowhere to express their opinions. Support tickets are not for suggestions and opinions. There is very little activity on Inno / Elvenar facebook pages. So the only place where Inno and the Elvenar teams can get peoples opinions are the forums, meaning the opinions of those expressing them on the forums is the only place the devs need to look.
2. Others are to scared to post their opinions... I'd probably say they just can't be bothered one bit in the first place to post. A lot of people read the forums, but because there is no requirement to register on it they don't bother. The majority of the players playing the game are more than likely the older generation, not kids and teenagers who sign up to 1000's of websites on a weekly basis and therefore don't want another account for the same game. Since the AW changes were first posted on this forum, there has been an increase of registered users on the forums but it's only been like 20 unique users. Where are the opinions of the 70k players on just the EN servers? The only opinions that are known of are here by the 20 of us So those are the only opinions which matter as there are no others. Period.

This following, is taken from a statement that I made yesterday. When the moderators write on here, it is with the full backing and consent of the development team, and anything they need to say, will be said through one of us. That is how the system works.

I think we all know this however I know I have not seen any posts or replies which quite frankly have come from a developer via yourselves. The only replies I've seen are for help issues or general questions which even a lot of members can answer, so I don't think the devs have much involvement in answering our questions at all. The only stuff which comes from the devs is the release notes and the event stuff. It's all the same across all the forums so it's been created centrally by the dev team. If there is a server problem, for example, that is when the devs may inform CMs (if available) or Mods to update us, but that is not answering questions which are put forward by the 20 strong active users.

"One of the main reasons that the AW was changed, is that it was too strong, and the rewards were too high. So some players were getting far more than was ever imagined. The mobile app is being tested in the UK and France, and the visits to neighbours take around 1 to 1.5 seconds each, so you can easily work out that the small number of people (and yes, it was very small) spending such a long time every day doing visits was going to shoot through the roof. "

Where did you get the 1-1.5 seconds per visit from??? It took me double that using a computer monitor with a mouse on the mobile app. 161 Visits in 8+ minutes. 8 minutes = 480 seconds / 161 neighbours = 2.981366459627329 seconds per visit. God knows how much longer it would take on a 7" phone!
It's certainly quicker but it's still a pain to do. It didn't take much more longer than that to load each city individually if your PC is running smoothly. Also you see peoples cities for inspiration etc. Now we will not even bother.

 

[Thezza]

Another thing..I have only got my Lighthouse to level 7...because I do NOT have lots and lots of push accounts...if you did something about this blatant cheating people would not have 10 or more AWs at stupid levels..but no, lets not do that...lets 'punish' the people who play within the rules!!!! Unforgivable!!

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Another thing..I have only got my Lighthouse to level 7...because I do NOT have lots and lots of push accounts...if you did something about this blatant cheating people would not have 10 or more AWs at stupid levels..but no, lets not do that...lets 'punish' the people who play within the rules!!!! Unforgivable!!

A widespread problem, nothing gets done about it in the past. We complain, have proof of it and nothing but get told off ourselves for reporting players blatantly pushing accounts. However... I think someone has recently been banned for this exact thing. Would be the first one ever though!

To keep this 'on topic'. This change in the AWs will have massively crippled those cheaters. That's the best part of the change.

 

[Timneh]

In a statement made by Marindor it was claimed that the BS/CL was too powerful because it was going to be so much faster to do NH with the new system when it comes and the rewards needed to be reduced in response to that change. I have asked this question before but i will ask it again as we now seem to have a mod that is at least trying to get us some answers. Why has this change to the BS/CL been brought in so soon ? Inno still do not know when the new NH system will be ready for release so did they not think it might be better to wait for the new NH system and introduce them both together with a detailed explanation of the problems that were present that this change would fix? ONE of the things that i personally find annoying (i can't speak for others of course) is Inno bring in changes that have massive implications on players but they do not give any reasons for those changes. They claim the BS/CL is too powerful but what do they mean by that and what is the impact on the game from it ? There might be a lot less anger if players knew the real reasons behind the changes. Would they be happy to buy a car and take it for a service and when they got it back it was using double the amount of fuel because of a change the garage made but the garage would not say why they made the change just that without the change there was a problem with the engine ?

 

[DeletedUser441]

Were there "improvements" made to the battle system ? I'm finding the enemy armies are far stronger in the tournament this time.

 

[DeletedUser4528]

In a statement made by Marindor it was claimed that the BS/CL was too powerful because it was going to be so much faster to do NH with the new system when it comes and the rewards needed to be reduced in response to that change. I have asked this question before but i will ask it again as we now seem to have a mod that is at least trying to get us some answers. Why has this change to the BS/CL been brought in so soon ? Inno still do not know when the new NH system will be ready for release so did they not think it might be better to wait for the new NH system and introduce them both together with a detailed explanation of the problems that were present that this change would fix?

the new format NH is live currently on the mobile app on Android and IOS, both of which are available in the UK and France. These will be rolled out to other markets at a later date, as it is still considered to be in the testing / development stage.

They claim the BS/CL is too powerful but what do they mean by that and what is the impact on the game from it ? There might be a lot less anger if players knew the real reasons behind the changes. Would they be happy to buy a car and take it for a service and when they got it back it was using double the amount of fuel because of a change the garage made but the garage would not say why they made the change just that without the change there was a problem with the engine ?

Say you have a player,, we`ll call them player A, and they have the AW placed, and are getting x amount of materials from the AW. They then use these materials to barter through new provinces, which in turn give more visits, so more materials, so more scouting, so more materials, and they end up with such a HUGE number of provinces scouted that they literally get 250,000 + Materials every day . This is what we mean when we say it became too strong.

As for the reason why the change has been made. There are many different factors all which led to the decision to change this, so I hope that you have a little better understanding of the changes that were made

 

[Thezza]

if they are getting that amount of goods their AW must be hugely levelled, if it is they have been cheating by using push accounts...you are using a huge stick that affects all players instead of addressing the problem!!

 

[DeletedUser2233]

As for the reason why the change has been made. There are many different factors all which led to the decision to change this, so I hope that you have a little better understanding of the changes that were made

It is not the changes being made but how the devs operate .
1. they lie to get what they want .(It is just plain wrong to say that most people will be better off ,when most people are not )
2.They do not warn the players upfront .(they have to go to beta to find out that this is the change being made .And what the hell is going on .If they were actually upfront about it then tell the truth why they needed this change.It is still not very clear to me .And people had to make calculations in order to get even the truth out.Where is the trust !!Because it was never told that a lot of people would get less ,Actually the ones that do not loose out are the ones that do not have a lighthouse or bellspire. )
3.There is no compensation for those who worked hard for that higher lvl ( either give them 2 extra lvl s or give them some diamonds or at least something for there loss )
4.People do not trust the game anymore (it is said over and over again ,the devs if they feel an itch they need to scratch it ,but they scratch so hard it starts to bleed .Sometimes less fast is better to prepare you're customers for the change you're intending and a good reason why .Because what is the next thing people will loose out on . )
5.The customer is always right .(If they keep refusing their customers ,they will get a bad name and talk is fast but the internet is faster .)

 

[Timneh]

Say you have a player,, we`ll call them player A, and they have the AW placed, and are getting x amount of materials from the AW. They then use these materials to barter through new provinces, which in turn give more visits, so more materials, so more scouting, so more materials, and they end up with such a HUGE number of provinces scouted that they literally get 250,000 + Materials every day . This is what we mean when we say it became too strong.

Thank you Shamy. That actually does make sense when it is explained. It would have been a lot better if Inno had come out and said that in the first place instead of giving reasons that aren't really reasons.
I am aware that the new NH system is in use on the mobile app but the beta CM has said that the browser version of the new system is not yet ready to even be tested so there still seems to be no reason for this change to have been made so far in advance of it's release.
Inno must still understand why players are very upset and angry about the fact that they (well some of them) used to spend a lot of time doing NH and then they find they are losing out on a lot of goods and players that help hardly anyone are getting more goods. It is wrong and unfair to reward lazy players and punish active players.
With this AW now giving far less goods will Inno reduce the huge number of KP it takes to upgrade it, i very much doubt it but it would be good to know if they even considered that.
Thanks again for the explanation of the need for this change but it still does not change some of the reasons why players were angry, i know you will not agree (and that of course is your right) but Inno did lie (whether they intended it that way or not) about how it would affect some players. Most players will get more goods and a few will get a tiny bit less is so far away from the way it worked out that it is hard to believe it was a mistake on thier part. Inno claiming to know the reason why players do NH without having done any kind of survey or poll is insulting, they do not know me so how could they possibly know what i think and what reasons i have for doing things.

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

@Shamy
It takes about 5 minutes to create a table that lets you calculate the benefit of the Bellspire/Lighthouse. All you need is:
- a cell to enter total provinces completed (let's call it TPC)
- a cell to enter number of players visited (let's call it NPV)
- first column: the level of the AW (called AW level)
- second column: the benefit of that level (called AW benefit)
- third column: goods received per NH given - equal to: TPC*second column (for example 200 provinces*30%=60 goods per NH given)
- total goods received by player for X amount of NH - equal to: NPV*third column (for example: 100*60 = 6000 goods)

If the devs did this sort of calculation and STILL made the Bellspire and Lighthouse the way they were before the change, allowing some players to get hundreds of thousands of goods, then they have no one but themselves to blame.

If the devs did not do this sort of calculation during the rebalancing of the AWs, then they are either lazy or incompetent (or both), and again have no one to blame but themselves.

In any case they should have admitted their own screw-up and given advance warning (at least a month) about the upcoming change. Also, they should have offered some compensation to the players who spent thousands of KPs leveling up their Bellspire/Lighthouse unaware of the upcoming change. Instead we got a poorly thought-out explanation/excuse that tried to pass the whole thing as no big deal and a benefit for most players. Which, in turn, led to all the (understandably) angry players.

Everything else I wanted to say has already been said by other players, so I'm not going to repeat it.