Version 1.22

[DeletedUser2886]

Not every answer on here is directed at what you have to say..... I was actually responding to Mykan

ditto

Actually I didn't say there was anything "wrong" with any trade, its entirely up to each individual how they trade, I would just like to see some filters on the trader so that I can get to equal trades quickly. Zero starred trades are zero starred meaning they do not offer equal value. Crossed tiered trades may be equal in coin and tools but are often not equal in time. As there are more trades being offered, which in itself is a good thing, I think there is a place for more filters on the trader.

that's fine. I don't disagree with a filter for those who want to ignore those trades. I just think if a cross tier trade is 2 star there is nothing wrong with it. Why limit yourself unneccesarily? YOu need all types of goods and if your t1 are all low yet your t2 and t3 are high ish what you gonna do? sit there waiting for your 100 100 t1:t1 trades to sell or just post a t2:t1 trade and get the goods you need instantly and fairly.

 

[Deleted User - 106219]

There were 2 very easy ways to do it that I know of, may have been more. The most obvious is coins, it was possible to buy 1000's of goods using wholesaler and that was with excess coins, could have passed 10K+ (t1 goods) a day if a person really wanted to.

It was 200K coins for 500 Tier 1 goods. So 400K for 1'000 goods, or 4'000'000 for 10'000. I doubt that sort of thing was happening very often...

 

[DeletedUser2886]

Not every answer on here is directed at what you have to say..... I was actually responding to Mykan

ditto. Do you even know what constructive criticism is or do you take anything that isn't blowing smoke up your ass as a personal attack? If your t1 goods are all low enough that you cant even complete a province (figures of less than 1k), yet you have over 10k t2 goods there is nothing wrong with placing a 1k offer of your t2 in exchange for someone giving you 4k t1 or whatever you want 2k>8k. YOu need all types of goods in this game. what would you rather do...trade frustratingly and slowly with less than 100 f each t1, or get the goods you need with a fair cross trade and instantly gain the goods fairly?

It was 200K coins for 500 Tier 1 goods. So 400K for 1'000 goods, or 4'000'000 for 10'000. I doubt that sort of thing was happening very often...

well you cant just post extremes as normality. there is no way I would trade away 200k supplies for 500 t1 goods, let alone 400k for 1k. That's half of my supplies capacity and is just bad management of resources because it would take me a while to get back up the 200k supplies back up...and 500 t1 goods doesn't get you anywhere in the grand scheme of things, neither does 1k goods. That's not even a third of goods in one encounter in some provinces.

with regards to cross tier trading lets say you have 240 marble, 470 steel, and 100 planks, yet you have over 20k of each t2 goods. Its quicker for you to just place a 2k(t2):8k(t1) or something similar to give yourself instant boosts to your t1 quickly, without having to struggle doing 100:100 trades at t1 for way too long for example

Edit by Muf-Muf: Merged multiple posts into one.

 

[Cregganroe]

Saying it once is quite enough... To go on repeating is a waste of energy... I read what you have to say about cross tier trading at least 3 times.... I do not agree with you however you write it or how often.... I do not agree with you

 

[DeletedUser2886]

I will continue to be narrow minded and not take cross tier trades even if they are 2 star as it is still unfair for me to have to give (example of 3* trade) 1000 scrolls to receive 500 elixer..... I will wait for someone offering 500 crystals for 500 scrolls thanks very much.... Just one example of greed imo

I never once called you narrow minded personally. I quoted sunrae so unless you are sunrae on an alt why would you say this unless you didn't think every commented was directed at you?

Saying it once is quite enough... To go on repeating is a waste of energy... I read what you have to say about cross tier trading at least 3 times.... I do not agree with you however you write it or how often.... I do not agree with you

disagreeing with me is fine. its how you deal with someone having a different opinion to your own, even to the point of making a taking a separate convo not about you as a personal attack. Disagree with me all you want that's fine I don't care as much as you do if someone disagrees I'm merely debating. You shouldn't reply to constructive criticism with personal insults is all I am saying. Theres always the option of disagreeing and leaving it there like most people

to clarify how is a 2 star cross trade greed?

Saying it once is quite enough... To go on repeating is a waste of energy... I read what you have to say about cross tier trading at least 3 times.... I do not agree with you however you write it or how often.... I do not agree with you

take your own advice then. the only reason you think its "repeating" is because you look at comments where I'm talking with different people and somehow think that I'm addressing you every single time. If I quoted you 3 times and repeat the same thing about cross trades then maybe your comment has some validation. Also I wouldn't care if you didn't want to hear it or not I'm entitled to say I think cross trading is fair as many times as I want to as many different people as I want. You always have an option to not reply or just hit the ignore button. You're so passive aggressive its unreal

Edit by Muf-Muf: Merged multiple posts into one.

 

[DeletedUser2884]

And this is why they keep getting away with crap game design and crappy updates changes.
You guys are both saying that the change to the wholesaler was not a good change just for different reasons or different points of view.
Yet you are fighting each other rather then the bad game mechanics.

 

[DeletedUser1353]

please explain why it is unfair if both of them are 2 star, and especially if the cross tier trade is 3 star. those goods are 1:4 either way on a t1:t2 and its no different than posting a 1:1 t1. both are fair trading. If I am low on t1 and have a lot of t2 ill place a trade for t1 or accept trades for t1. limiting yourself to 1:1 2:2 3:3 is narrow minded when you need all types of goods

What it boils down to is the cost of producing the goods, tools and coins right? Wrong. It's also about the population and culture (indirect space usage if you will) the manufacturies take up. The current market system only values trades according to tools and coins cost in a scale of 1:4:16, ie 16 T1 resources are considered as much worth as 1 T3 resource.

Well, I think many players have a gut feeling that there's something unfair about the cross-trade ratings even if they don't know exactly what is wrong, since if you go to the market (at least in my experience) there's always an abundance of cross-trades trading a higher tier for a lower tier at a 2-star rating (actually an unfair trade imo). But there's almost never any trades exchanging lower tier resources for higher tier ones.

I did some calculations a while back trying to get a more accurate rating for cross tier trades here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5X7gx94aAqqkk/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=537066307

With lvl 15 manufactories the ratings would be roughly 1:2:4 instead of 1:4:16, but it all depends on which chapter you're in and what kind of culture buildings you're using.

 

[DeletedUser2886]

And this is why they keep getting away with crap game design and crappy updates changes.
You guys are both saying that the change to the wholesaler was not a good change just for different reasons or different points of view.
Yet you are fighting each other rather then the bad game mechanics.

In the beginning of this thread I was talking about the update changes and offering constructive criticism about the games elements. Cregganroe just sees other peoples convos and directs them at himself for no reason. I'm not fighting with them just pointing out that the world doesn't revolve around them with every post. If I post something and nobody replies, or someone does but disagrees...so what I don't care its called a discussion. Something you, me and everyone else was having until cregganroe makes it all personal by reading others comments and thinking they are about them all the time then liking posts that disagree with that person. Its called being passive aggressive.

I agree with you the update changes are terrible and was only ever offering constructive criticism on why they are and what they could have done to make it better. I have two threads in the suggestions forum.

What it boils down to is the cost of producing the goods, tools and coins right? Wrong. It's also about the population and culture (indirect space usage if you will) the manufacturies take up. The current market system only values trades according to tools and coins cost in a scale of 1:4:16, ie 16 T1 resources are considered as much worth as 1 T3 resource.

Well, I think many players have a gut feeling that there's something unfair about the cross-trade ratings even if they don't know exactly what is wrong, since if you go to the market (at least in my experience) there's always an abundance of cross-trades trading a higher tier for a lower tier at a 2-star rating (actually an unfair trade imo). But there's almost never any trades exchanging lower tier resources for higher tier ones.

I did some calculations a while back trying to get a more accurate rating for cross tier trades here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5X7gx94aAqqkk/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=537066307

With lvl 15 manufactories the ratings would be roughly 1:2:4 instead of 1:4:16, but it all depends on which chapter you're in and what kind of culture buildings you're using.

Interesting ill check that link out in a sec. To me all goods are needed though and if I'm lacking in one area I will make the trade via a cross trade if I need to. Giving myself 16000 t1 from a 1000 t3 is instantly topping me back up and I can do that with a 2 star trade. I do offer the ones going up and accept the ones going up too if I need them

Edit by Muf-Muf: Merged multiple posts into one.

 

[DeletedUser1353]

Here's an example where it's a bit easier to see how wrong the star system is for cross trades.
Made by using the tool city planner at www.elvenarchitect.com, great site btw!

Spoiler: Comparison between T1 and T3 goods production.

I left out stuff like mainhall, roads etc to make it a bit easier, will still be able to see the difference.

Here we see a village only producing T3 goods, making 775 elixir per day:

Trading T3 for T1 with a 2-star trade would has got a 1:16 rate.
So if I wanted to trade the elixir produced here for say Marble, then I would gain 775*16=12400 marble per day.

So let's look at a village producing roughly that amount:

See any difference between the 2 villages? The market rating sure doesn'nt

 

[sunrae]

Here's an example where it's a bit easier to see how wrong the star system is for cross trades.
Made by using the tool city planner at www.elvenarchitect.com, great site btw!

This is why I think the star rating system can be misleading as it might make people believe that the cross tier trades are equal, which in actual fact they are not. This is not to say that they are wrong, just not equal. As a city grows there is less need for trading cross tier as, for instance, my city never runs low on goods as my factories are upgraded to a high level and so there is no advantage for me. If I need an extra boost of goods then I use the spells. I do understand that everyone is at a different point in the game and each plays their own individual way. My suggestion only was for some more filters on the trader as it would make trading quicker.
If you have more than one city and are in fellowships and also visit neighbours regularly then you can find yourself spending rather a lot of time on the game.

 

[Killiak]

Nezkeys; did you know you can edit posts and multi-quote instead of spamming multiple posts in a row?

Well now you do.

 

[Timneh]

I only used the trader to use coins and supplies when my main hall was full like a lot of other people it seems so now i need to either pay the new over price cost or find another way to use my excess coins (supplies will not be a problem). Here is where Inno in theory may have shot themselves in the foot. They are trying to stop people from advancing through the game faster than they think we should but now to help use my coins i will keep my scout going 24 hours a day whenever i can and that is the opposite of what Inno want. If all players did that then Inno have made us do what they are trying to stop us doing. Not very likely i know but i did say it was a theory.

 

[DeletedUser3106]

I understand that you want to stop people ignoring trades, but penalising use of the wholesaler whon't do that. The regular tournaments effectively drain a third of the possible resources from the market place for 3 and a half days every week, they are not there to trade for! Trashing the wholesaer like you have is just diminishes my ability to actually do anything in the game for half the week, which means I will spend that time playing other games - if I like them better than yours I will move to them long term - you've got to keep the game flowing if you want people to play long term.

 

[firerock]

yes the wholesaler change was utterly perplexing and ill conceived.
My scouting takes 2 and a half days, after one round of coin collection I am back to full capacity. All this doe sis limit the ability I have to gaining items I cant boost, the game is so broken in trading its not true. The ONLY way this change would be any sense if you could see ALL trades across the world to force you to trade with others. There always seems to be dearth of certain goods in my large region, steel and crystal, I regularly take lots of marble trades and buy the steel from the trader, but I'll be only able to buy MUCH less steel now, meaning I will not require the trading of the marble. this kills the market further. Who the hell thought this through? Mickey Mouse esq?

 

[KermitsDad]

One serious concern...
Feeder towns to produce more goods for main towns existed before this change to the wholesaler mechanics.
Now that less goods can be got from the wholesaler will this practice become more commonplace?

If so then are we likely to see even more abandoned towns because the goods boosts of the feeder towns were not as required? - I sincerely hope not!

I'm also highly amused by the stupidity of having early repeatable quests that totally encourage the continual use of the wholesaler and then at a later time having to "fix" the exact issues that these quests encouraged.

I refer to these type of quest:
Gain 40 Planks : reward 6000 coin + 600 supplies
Gain 40 Marble : reward 6000 coin + 600 supplies
(for a player with steel as tier 1 boost)

If 20 were bought with 8000 coin and then a further 20 bought with 800 supplies.
Total cost for 40 was 8000 coin + 800 supplies
You'd then get back 75% of this cost back as a quest reward!

Simply put: If you encourage something to happen then the chances are it will

 

[Aureliae]

Sigh. Yup, you've stuffed the wholesaler. For starters, there's no way to buy any variation in quantity anymore. So if you only want to buy a 100 of something to say top off a quest or get enough to finish a research, you can't, you have to buy whatever the assigned allotment is - mine is currently 205 for 82,000 coins first tier. Get stuffed. I have a well balanced healthy trading fellowship, don't need the goods.

Entire game strategies have been built around the wholesaler (not mine, but I know people who have). Don't like it? Tough. There was nothing wrong with the wholesaler. You advertised it of what to use to get rid of coins, and it's what most of us do.

Given I can't scout because of your other brainless, stupid 'improvement' - orcs - WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO WITH MY COINS NOW? I can't get rid of the residences because I need that much population. I needed to build more residences to get the population to build armories (which I didn't previously have so I could get stupid orcs.

Another wondrous "Improvement" perhaps to deal with excess coin issue?

Put it back the way it was. Get rid of the damn orcs too - or at least don't introduce them until the player actually reaches the orc level.

 

[cwgiii]

I agree with the majority of responses here that the Wholesaler is now hosed. If we can't keep our stores of coin and supplies in balance by "dumping" the excess on goods with the wholesaler, at some semblance of an equitable ratio, then we should at least be able to buy/trade for Diamonds with that surplus. Speaking as a player that has never purchased Diamonds and will have to quit the game if it becomes a requirement.

 

[DeletedUser297]

This update which tries to encourage players to trade with other players by making the wholesaler less attractive with continual price increases will not work whilst we are surrounded with towns as below.

You cannot trade with a player with a town like this and I am surrounded by many of them.
It's this that needs fixing and not the wholesaler. The wholesaler works so why fix it if it's not broken ?

The weekly relocation of non active players also does not work because all that happens is one abandoned startup town gets replaced with another.

In fact you get a whole new bunch of abandoned start up towns every week!

Note that this town like all the others, is developed only to exactly the point where you are able to determine what 3 production boost you have available.

Does it still not occur to the game management crew that all these new start towns arrive just because players are looking to find certain goods boosts?
If they don't find them they start again with another town!

The abundance of these abandoned start up towns is the root problem which spoils the game for many players and suggestions have been made about this issue elsewhere.

Playing with the wholesaler mechanics to encourage player to player trading is not the answer.

Not only is my world neighborhood filled with towns like this but I have over 100 empty spaces (Gold Mines). There is no trading possible with these circumstances. The rest of us trade as much and as often as we can but we NEED the wholesaler at a REASONABLE cost to fill in with what is NOT available any other way. Not happy with this new development. Maybe the developers should PLAY the game so they see what the problems really are. And when Support says they delete inactive villages after 30 days I don't believe it. There are many of these villages in my world that have been there for many months.

 

[DeletedUser2886]

This is why I think the star rating system can be misleading as it might make people believe that the cross tier trades are equal, which in actual fact they are not. This is not to say that they are wrong, just not equal. As a city grows there is less need for trading cross tier as, for instance, my city never runs low on goods as my factories are upgraded to a high level and so there is no advantage for me. If I need an extra boost of goods then I use the spells. I do understand that everyone is at a different point in the game and each plays their own individual way. My suggestion only was for some more filters on the trader as it would make trading quicker.
If you have more than one city and are in fellowships and also visit neighbours regularly then you can find yourself spending rather a lot of time on the game.

Yea I wasn't getting at you either and I agree that a filter is a good idea because it doesn't have to be used by people who want to see all trades, its just that a lot of newer players will find themselves running low on goods more than higher ranked players think (or forget they were once there at some point themselves) and the easiest way to solve that is a t3 or t2 trade back to t1 rather than struggling to make any progress with t1 trades of like 100:100 and waiting on goods productions and losing all momentum in the tournament for example

Nezkeys; did you know you can edit posts and multi-quote instead of spamming multiple posts in a row?

Well now you do.

you could have just told me how to do it instead of carrying off from being rude like in your last replies to me on another post and having a general tone of thinking youre better than everyone else. I'm just going to ignore you tbh. you don't know how to have a debate normally without lowering the tone to taking digs at people

I only used the trader to use coins and supplies when my main hall was full like a lot of other people it seems so now i need to either pay the new over price cost or find another way to use my excess coins (supplies will not be a problem). Here is where Inno in theory may have shot themselves in the foot. They are trying to stop people from advancing through the game faster than they think we should but now to help use my coins i will keep my scout going 24 hours a day whenever i can and that is the opposite of what Inno want. If all players did that then Inno have made us do what they are trying to stop us doing. Not very likely i know but i did say it was a theory.

100% agree. I made all these points myself a few days ago about the speed inno thinks we should play etc and its true they have shot themselves in the foot. I too was only using the wholesaler to get rid of excess supplies so I could get the max value from quests

I understand that you want to stop people ignoring trades, but penalising use of the wholesaler whon't do that. The regular tournaments effectively drain a third of the possible resources from the market place for 3 and a half days every week, they are not there to trade for! Trashing the wholesaer like you have is just diminishes my ability to actually do anything in the game for half the week, which means I will spend that time playing other games - if I like them better than yours I will move to them long term - you've got to keep the game flowing if you want people to play long term.

good point. it would appear they don't really care whether you like the game or not because they want us to play it their way. There have been several posts for suggestions for the game where innogames have effectively said it would ruin "our" fun. I mean seriously they're trying to tell players that what they would like in the game is not their idea of fun and would ruin the game 0_o

they must think price hiking diamonds and screwing up the wholesaler is going to redeem them from any negative comments

yes the wholesaler change was utterly perplexing and ill conceived.
My scouting takes 2 and a half days, after one round of coin collection I am back to full capacity. All this doe sis limit the ability I have to gaining items I cant boost, the game is so broken in trading its not true. The ONLY way this change would be any sense if you could see ALL trades across the world to force you to trade with others. There always seems to be dearth of certain goods in my large region, steel and crystal, I regularly take lots of marble trades and buy the steel from the trader, but I'll be only able to buy MUCH less steel now, meaning I will not require the trading of the marble. this kills the market further. Who the hell thought this through? Mickey Mouse esq?

the same people who price hiked diamonds by 25% a few days ago, and tell players how they must enjoy the game making them play their way lol

One serious concern...
Feeder towns to produce more goods for main towns existed before this change to the wholesaler mechanics.
Now that less goods can be got from the wholesaler will this practice become more commonplace?

If so then are we likely to see even more abandoned towns because the goods boosts of the feeder towns were not as required? - I sincerely hope not!

I'm also highly amused by the stupidity of having early repeatable quests that totally encourage the continual use of the wholesaler and then at a later time having to "fix" the exact issues that these quests encouraged.

I refer to these type of quest:
Gain 40 Planks : reward 6000 coin + 600 supplies
Gain 40 Marble : reward 6000 coin + 600 supplies
(for a player with steel as tier 1 boost)

If 20 were bought with 8000 coin and then a further 20 bought with 800 supplies.
Total cost for 40 was 8000 coin + 800 supplies
You'd then get back 75% of this cost back as a quest reward!

Simply put: If you encourage something to happen then the chances are it will

so true. those quests are amazing in the beginning to get yourself to max capacity lol. theres also these ones....

"place 3 trade offer"
"accept 1 trade"

that offer huge rewards and so easy to spam

Sigh. Yup, you've stuffed the wholesaler. For starters, there's no way to buy any variation in quantity anymore. So if you only want to buy a 100 of something to say top off a quest or get enough to finish a research, you can't, you have to buy whatever the assigned allotment is - mine is currently 205 for 82,000 coins first tier. Get stuffed. I have a well balanced healthy trading fellowship, don't need the goods.

Entire game strategies have been built around the wholesaler (not mine, but I know people who have). Don't like it? Tough. There was nothing wrong with the wholesaler. You advertised it of what to use to get rid of coins, and it's what most of us do.

Given I can't scout because of your other brainless, stupid 'improvement' - orcs - WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO WITH MY COINS NOW? I can't get rid of the residences because I need that much population. I needed to build more residences to get the population to build armories (which I didn't previously have so I could get stupid orcs.

Another wondrous "Improvement" perhaps to deal with excess coin issue?

Put it back the way it was. Get rid of the damn orcs too - or at least don't introduce them until the player actually reaches the orc level.

also if you use your boosted goods the ratio is 1:5 (100 marble for 20 steel for example....no thanks). what about supplies? 800supplies = 20 t1. that's 400k supplies for 10k goods (which is what you will need for one province at least at my level....so again no thanks lol)

As you say its best use (and only use for me) is to just prevent losing coins/supplies from quests when you are at max capacity

Edit by Muf-Muf: Merged multiple posts into one.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

It was 200K coins for 500 Tier 1 goods. So 400K for 1'000 goods, or 4'000'000 for 10'000. I doubt that sort of thing was happening very often...

No clue how often it happened but I suspect a lot of goods were been purchased through the wholesaler. I know someone who would daily by 1,000-2,000 T3 goods daily and they had a fairly standard town. There were some towns geared towards mass producing coins to supplement goods production.

Whether or not their approach to stop this is good or effective....well time will tell.