Optimizing Fellowship Adventure

[Sir Derf]

My Fellowship, which is nominally laid back, and has no FA participation requirements (though it is highly recommended that you pace 1 badge per map) has developed into a badge-producing monster.

I'm looking to develop an optimized strategy for FA points. Can anyone point me at a resource that provides the waypoint-by-waypoint requirements for each map?

Thanks in advance, and I'll share my thoughts after I do some analysis.

 

[m4rt1n]

This has all the info you need I think.

https://elvengems.com/fellowship-adventures/october-2020-adventure/

 

[Sir Derf]

I knew it was somewhere, and figured it was faster to ask then to search myself. I'll be pouring over this in great detail eventually, and I'll give my assessment here. If anyone else has their own thoughts, or could point to them, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[m4rt1n]

@JackLuyt has a Facebook group also and I used to follow but now it seems you need an account to view.

https://tinyurl.com/y539w8tz?fbclid=IwAR1cm0rIWMZb08-sDfNfhH2i6ch2REP5_7clf2y1_6Cx5ZX6BMj_xkkt9q8

 

[Sir Derf]

I've long been a Facebook avoider...

 

[Jackluyt]

@JackLuyt has a Facebook group also and I used to follow but now it seems you need an account to view.

Try this link; perhaps it works better for you.
You do not need to be a member to use our resources.
https://tinyurl.com/y539w8tz

 

[Sir Derf]

Maybe not a member of the group, but at least a member of the Book of Faces.

 

[Sir Derf]

So, opening conversation on the topic...

Fellowship Adventure involves 4 types of Badges: Supplies, Goods, Spells and Other.

For the most part, Other badges (Wonder, Guard and Coin) are completely ignorable. Sacks of Coins I get in large quantities without thinking, Guards as well are automatic, and even if donating to Wonders aren't part of your daily process, I at least find them easy to get at the drop of a hat.

Second, the Spell badges (Wand, Potion and Hat) are almost the same. Neighborly Help and Tourney prizes give you some, but the collective operation of a Fellowship's Magic Academy can easily fulfil your needs, or at least that's my impression.

These badges are necessary for the paths. They could be needed for extra waypoints on the Maps. They are unnecessary once you enter the pit.

For all the above, I think it is fair to say, they have no practical concern for deep optimization.



That leaves Supplies and Goods... Ahhhh, Supplies and Goods.

 

[Sir Derf]

When it comes to supplies and goods, there are two main things to think about; Quantity and Time.

Quantity

Well, you're gonna need a whole lot of runs of different types, and the more buildings you have, the more runs you can complete. You've got your existing powerhouse upgraded buildings, and then you have as many tiny Lvl1 buildings you can fit in whatever free space you have or can temporarily make.

Initially, let's discuss your powerhouse buildings. Broadly speaking, there are three ways you might decide to handle them:

1) You might be willing to turn over powerhouse building usage entirely to FA needs
2) You might be willing to do Special usages sometimes, but mostly stick to 3 hour and 9 hour runs on them
3) You might be unwilling to change your usual production scheduling on them.

Reagrdless of the above, Manufactories, should always be operated in trios, as there is a penalty to collecting more of one type than another. If you have any imbalance in your number of powerhouse Manufactories, you should put in complimentary Lvl1 manufactories to balance. In contrast, while there is convenience in operating Workshops in multiples of 5, it is not necessary, as there is no related penalties on Workshops.

After considering your existing powerhouses, you then have your Shantytown(tm) of Lvl1 buildings.

For computation and comparison purposes, I will consider a Supplies production unit as consisting of 5 Lvl1 WS and takes up 25 squares (5 2x2 + 5 roads in large-scale layouts). Similarly, a Goods production unit will consist of 1 each Lvl1 Marble, Steel and Plank, and takes up 10 squares (2 2x1 each with a 1/2 road, and 1 2x2 with a full road in large-scale layouts).

 

[Sir Derf]

Time

An FA runs for, what 6 days, 4 hours or so, typically. How much can you produce in 6+ days? Except, that's not the actual rule. Really, it's "How much can you collect in 6+ days?", as you can start productions ahead the start of the FA; as long as you wait and collect it once the FA starts, it counts. That means you can have 2 extra days to produce 48-hour production runs on Goods and 1 extra day to produce 24-hour production runs on Supplies.

For your powerhouses, if you are a type 1 or 2 player, you should start all powerhouse Manufactories (with complimentary Lvl1s) on 2-day runs 2 days ahead of the FA; if you are a type 3 player, just keep on keeping on with Powerhouses Manufactories and their sidekicks. IF you are a type 1 or 2 player, start all powerhouse Workshops with toolboxes 1 day before the start of the FA; if type 3, carry on.

After that, what should you do?

I believe to maximize your time, your Shantytown should be initially be built entirely with Goods production units, and they all should be started on 48-hour runs 48 hours ahead of the FA. Once you're into the FA, a portion of those Manufactories should be replaced with workshops, but it is inefficient to not use this start time to make as many Statues as you can. Every Statue you can make in this way represents an extra free day of production versus any other use of those spaces. This might need a little modification with further analysis, on the off chance that you can actually make more Statues in this first run than you'll use over the entire FA, but I'm initially considering this not to be the case.


Upcoming thoughts - What is the best path to finish each map? Pure color, or use the crossovers? After taking the best path, are any Waypoints worth collecting versus the Pit?

Your thoughts, comments and concerns are all welcome...

 

[Pauly7]

I'm not sure that all that much about FA is strategy, or not that much new to be gained.

1. You are right that spell badges and "other" badges don't need to be considered. Just make as many as possible.
2. Count the total number of each manu and workshop badge type. It doesn't matter where they are, on which map they are, or when you will need them.
3. Have Elf cities make all the manu badges.

How many badges can be produced depends on how much space everyone has. If you know this in advance then you can calculate how many badges can be made (starting from 48 hours before the FA). You can then calculate a target in advance based on the total badges needed to complete all paths, plus an even amount extra of all manu and workshop badges (excluding statues.)

Strategy comes in knowing the optimal times to produce the shorter term badges which need "babysitting". If you are building an FA team from scratch you could also consider that having too many human cities in the team counts against you.

 

[Pauly7]

It is always better to favour completing regular waypoints over pit waypoints, providing that their completion was planned and doesn't result in wastage.

As far as "powerhouse" manus go - an optimum strategy would simply say don't have any in your cities for the duration of the FA.

 

[Sir Derf]

Last post until I crunch and stare at the actual badge-path information.

As described above, of the 16 badges, there are really only 10 that matter, and they break down into two groups based on the buildings used to make them. As they are separate building types, we need to look at the time needs for them separately. Or, more accurately, time-square needs.

Now, looking at my immediately previous post, I'm starting to think that the number of Statues might ultimately be irrelevant, if the prebuilding frenzy makes them all in the free time before the FA starts. So, to evaluate which is the best path, we might be comparing all supplies badges versus only the first 3 Goods badges.

 

[Sir Derf]

Thank you for pointing out my elf-centric point of view. For humans, the Goods production unit is 12-1/2 squares, not 10 squares. I'll have to remember that as I get further in.

I don't believe this difference changes the thought on what to do in prebuild. While a human is less efficient prebuilding goods versus an elf, it is still better for a human to prebuild 48-h goods than either 24-h goods or 24-h supplies, yes?

Also, I suppose you are right, there is a fourth, type 0 player with regards to powerhouse buildings.

0) You can have no powerhouse buildings, either permanently eschewing them, or temporarily selling or teleporting them for the duration of the FA.


Until I look at the numbers, I'm not sure that the assessment of "Any Waypoint over the Pit" is correct. Here are two possibly pessimistic examples where I'm not sure the math will bear that out.

1) Is an unnecessary-to-minimal-path waypoint that needs Statues worth it?
2) Is an unnecessary-to-minimal-path waypoint that needs 40 Blacksmiths worth it?

On the optimistic side, in some cases it might be that a single waypoint isn't worth it, but a sequence of 2, 3 or 4 in a row Waypoints might be.


As to there not being much, or not much new, to strategize on...

1) Apologies if I'm duplicating existing work. If' it's in this forum, I haven't seen it, at least not with all the details behind it. The same if elsewhere.
2) It might be that we'll come up with a new wrinkle or two as we go along on this journey.

 

[Pauly7]

I don't believe this difference changes the thought on what to do in prebuild. While a human is less efficient prebuilding goods versus an elf, it is still better for a human to prebuild 48-h goods than either 24-h goods or 24-h supplies, yes?

Well this all depends on whether your Elf cities between them can have 114 statues ready to collect by the start of the FA. If they can then humans won't ever need to touch manu badges, especially considering that greater numbers of workshop badges are needed.

 

[Pauly7]

Until I look at the numbers, I'm not sure that the assessment of "Any Waypoint over the Pit" is correct. Here are two possibly pessimistic examples where I'm not sure the math will bear that out.

You're probably right that some thought can go into this, if you're not planning to complete all waypoints.

OK, one extra titbit... Always consider the extra points that the junction waypoints offer. If you can do a little more than single paths then always complete these.

 

[Sir Derf]

OK, one extra titbit... Always consider the extra points that the junction waypoints offer. If you can do a little more than single paths then always complete these.

Consider, yes. But again, it all depends on the math.

There are some cases were a second point consists entirely of "free" Spell or Other badges, and so would make that pair better than a single, but there are others where the second adds more to the cost, and might not make the case for getting it, or even both.

I hear what you're saying, and I'll either confirm or refute this conventional wisdom. My initial impression is, I'm skeptical that they're all desirable.

 

[Sir Derf]

Supplies Badges...

50 Beverages (5 min) to a Brewer
35 Simple Tools (15 min) to a Treant
20 Bread (1 hour) to a Baker
10 Advanced Tools (3 hours) to a Carpenter
5 Groceries (9 hours) to a Farmer
5 Toolboxes (24 hours) to a Blacksmith

10 Supplies production units for 5 minutes to a Brewer
7 units for 15 minutes to a Treant
4 units for 1 hour to a Baker
2 units for 3 hours to a Carpenter
1 unit for 9 hours to a Farmer
1 unit for 24 hours to a Blacksmith

Brewer = 20.833 square-hours_s
Treant = 43.75 square-hours_s
Baker = 100 square-hours_s
Carpenter = 150 square-hours_s
Farmer = 175 square-hours_s
Blacksmith = 600 square-hours_s

1 Blacksmith = 3.42 Farmers = 4 Carpenters = 6 Bakers = 13.71 Treants = 28.8 Brewers



Goods badges (Elf)...

Trio of 3 hour goods to a Flacon
Trio of 9 hour goods to a Bracelet
Trio of 24 hour goods to a Necklace
Trio of 48 hour goods to a Statue

Flacon = 30 square-hours_g
Bracelet = 90 square-hours_g
Necklace = 240 square-hours_g
Statue = 480 square-hours_g

1 Statue = 2 Necklaces = 5.3 Bracelets = 16 Flacons

Pit

4 Brewers + 4 Treants + 4 Bakers = 50 points
4 Carpenter + 4 Farmers + 4 Blacksmiths = 50 points
4 Flacons + 4 Bracelets + 4 Necklaces = 50 points

(4 * 20.833) + (4 * 43.75) + (4 * 100) = 658.333 square-hours_s
(4 * 150) + (4 * 175) + (4 * 600) = 3,700 square-hours_s
(4 * 30) + (4 * 90) + (4 * 240) = 1,440 square-hours_g

150 points = 4,358.333 square-hours_s + 1,440 square-hours_g

 

[Sir Derf]

Statues.

Statues are not free. (My earlier thoughts were wrong)
Statues are not worth 480 square-hours_g.

Pre-built (by elves) Statues are worth 240 square-hours_g, the same as Pre-built (by elves) Necklaces.

Every pre-built Statue is pre-built instead of a pre-built Necklace (or Blacksmith), and so has that equivalent cost. The first pre-building day is free, as it is inaccessible to any other badge type.

Again, this valuation is predicated on all necessary statue being pre-built by elves. If elves alone can't do it, then pre-build additional Statues by Humans at a cost of 300 square-hours_g. And, if you can't pre-build at all, then build the remainder with Elves at the above-stated 480 square-hours_g.

 

[Sir Derf]

Paths on maps.

On each map, there are the following paths:

1. No Crossovers
   1. Orange, Orange, Orange
   2. Blue, Blue, Blue
   3. Green, Green, Green
2. Single Crossover
   1. Orange, Blue, Blue
   2. Orange, Orange, Blue
   3. Blue, Orange, Orange
   4. Blue Blue, Orange
   5. Blue, Green, Green
   6. Blue, Blue, Green
   7. Green, Blue, Blue
   8. Green, Green, Blue
3. Double Crossover
   1. Orange, Blue, Orange
   2. Orange, Blue, Green
   3. Orange, Green, Green
   4. Orange, Orange, Green
   5. Blue, Orange, Blue
   6. Blue, Green, Blue
   7. Green, Blue, Green
   8. Green, Blue, Orange
   9. Green, Orange, Orange
   10. Green, Green, Orange
4. Triple Crossover
   1. Orange, Green, Blue
   2. Blue, Orange, Green
   3. Blue, Green, Orange
   4. Green, Orange, Blue
5. Quadruple Crossover
   1. Orange, Green, Orange
   2. Green, Orange, Green

That's 27 different paths. Each map.