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Lots of small trades

Just a general discussion point, but is anyone else annoyed when trying to scroll through the Trader that is clogged up with somebody who has placed lots of small trades? For example,

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I understand that it is good for small cities/players to have an opportunity to accept a trade that is within their means. I would have thought that an alternative would be to place an offer say, of one 15K trade, and then two or three little trades for the newer players.

I am not complaining BTW. I was wondering what other peoples' thoughts on the matter may be. :)
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
It is spamming, simple as that. The limit on number of trades that one player can make is 60 last time I heard. That’s over 7 pages of trades. I think that it shouldn’t be over 30 trades, even 20 trades is more than enough.

I don’t see a valid reason to make that many trades. It’s not helping much small players as they are much better off to post their own trades because their discovered map is very small and they can’t see many trades anyway. The only time it helps them if you are a very close neighbour or in their fellowship. I think that the best way to help them is to check the trader often. But this is very hard if we need to go through pages and pages of cross trades or other repetitive trades and then accept large number of them. This can be over 60 clicks to help someone while it could be easily done in under 20 or less.

The game needs to encourage active trading, not placing a huge number of trades and let them sit there for a week making other players to avoid checking trader. With a reduced number of trades, it’s less clicks to check the trader than post a large number of small trades repeatedly.

With sentient goods, there’s a large number of players that can see the trades. The bigger the trade the higher up on the list so posting a large number of small trades puts trades at the bottom of the list making it slower to get accepted. Again, a smaller number of bigger trades is better.

So at this moment it looks like that the only players that get the most benefit from large number of trades are the ones that are posting unfair trades and are hoping for misclicks or desperation of players that can't wait for a little bit for their three star trades to get accepted.
 

Sir Derf

Adept
I would point out that posting multiple trades allows not just small cities to accept a single small trade that is within its means, but it also allows mid-sized cities to accept half of the trades, or large cities to accept all of the trades.

I personally post trades in a sequence of ever-growing amounts, 101:100, 202:200, 404:400, ..., 103,424:102,400.
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
Just a general discussion point, but is anyone else annoyed when trying to scroll through the Trader that is clogged up with somebody who has placed lots of small trades?
I am not complaining BTW. I was wondering what other peoples' thoughts on the matter may be. :)
Actually you are complaining :D since you've started your post stating that you are annoyed. Just saying ...


I don’t see a valid reason to make that many trades. It’s not helping much small players as they are much better off to post their own trades because their discovered map is very small and they can’t see many trades anyway. The only time it helps them if you are a very close neighbour or in their fellowship. I think that the best way to help them is to check the trader often.
not if are sentient or ascended goods. Those are available for the whole server not just for NH. If your boosted sentient is one that nobody wants or is less requested, small trades gives an extra chance to get what you want/ need. Not everyone needs dozens of thousands of some particular goods.
... is to check the trader often. But this is very hard if we need to go through pages and pages of cross trades or other repetitive trades and then accept large number of them.
I do not mind having hundreds of pages of trades. There is a function allowing you to select the exact type of trade you want. You might want to give it a try.
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
You might want to give it a try.

You might want to try reading my post. :D

There is a function allowing you to select the exact type of trade you want.

If you want to help small players, there's no other way than scroll through other trades. Would you like to try it?

I would point out that posting multiple trades allows not just small cities to accept a single small trade that is within its means, but it also allows mid-sized cities to accept half of the trades, or large cities to accept all of the trades.

I personally post trades in a sequence of ever-growing amounts, 101:100, 202:200, 404:400, ..., 103,424:102,400.

I'm talking about a large number of trades here. For me a large number is over 2 pages of the same trades.
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
Aaah, @Laurelin 's back. That's gonna be fun! I'll leave you people to it. :D
@Silly Bubbles : What? My only prior input in this thread was to 'Like' one post. I am here only because the Forum notified me of your @tag.
I assure you that I don't come here with any intention whatsoever of engaging specifically with you on any topic or in any particular manner.

And what I will say, below, now that I AM here - which is something I have long felt I should say, too, and sooner rather than later, if it is to have any useful effect - is no more directed at you than it is at anyone who may wish to read it. The very nature of open discourse is that those engaging in it - or not - do so of their own free will.

NB : While I am neither an advocate nor a user of this Forum's 'Ignore' function, not of anything similar online, it's available if anyone so chooses.

I have been around Net forums from the early 1990s onwards - long enough to see, at every stage, patterns which commonly repeat - and there is unfortunately no doubt that both the EN and US Forums are now in the mid-stage of devolving into 'ghost town' near-irrelevance - partly because Elvenar & Inno are now 'mobile-first', and forums are far more of a PC/Console game environment, but also particularly because (in general, not person-specific, terms) of the way in which their Admins have behaved in the past - and their communities are now behaving.

The initial cause of this decline, as long-term commentators will probably recall, was a sudden burst of censorship some time ago, followed by a now-declining insistence that any 'non-positive' commentary about the game or Inno themselves was not welcome or even tolerated. Unsurprisingly, this resulted in only a few players continuing to comment regularly, in many cases with exaggerated caution - a standard consequence of what was, essentially, an attempt to limit Free Speech (my Forum Signature refers)... and this is a Net-wide problem which is far from unique to this or indeed any particular online forum.

We shall see whether my openly stating the above, rather than adopting this Forum's users' now-typical habit of using euphemisms and hints to refer to their own fear of censorship, will result in... more censorship. If so - so be it. 'Beating about the bush' rarely achieves any useful result.

HOWEVER - and be that as it may - once any Net forum (or any Human society) starts to evidence exclusionary behaviour on the part of its members, as is creeping into this Forum, then external censorship, although often the route to such an outcome, is no longer even required in order for discourse to effectively cripple itself, with predictable outcomes - nor is any type of imposed censorship as effective as the self-destructive behaviour of the group which so often sets in as one its consequences; it is a type of self-censorship - which can take many forms.

On the US Forum, there has been - for different reasons - a descent into what amounts to an exclusive 'Old Boys' Club', a well-known modern form of tribalism, with many initially discursive conversations devolving either into obscure asides or even into [friendly or even implicitly hostile] partisan behaviour, organised behind unofficial 'leading figures', which are relevant to - or even comprehended by - only a few long-term contributors. There is also now a degree of entirely irrelevant 'personality politics' and/or mutual back-slapping in evidence, together with a degree of passive aggression and/or sentimentality, a prevalence of personal complimentary remarks even though most forum contributors, anywhere online, don't actually know each other, and/or 'in-jokes' extending far beyond the type of humorous aside one will always find in any online [or other] discussion - complete with 'food gifts' being 'shared' between commentators in the form of posted images. This extension of natural humour and friendship into the territory of overly prevalent and/or exclusionary 'specifics' is always damaging to any online forum, even a broadly healthy one.

The US Forum Admins have even started to assign 'special titles' [some of them unique to individuals] to only some Community members, which is one of the final signs of a closed and inward-looking micro-society arising. While this can be amusing - and/or confusing, according to some of the US Forum commentators themselves - for at least some of those involved, this sort of 'special treatment' (which is far from uncommon online) is extremely off-putting for any new and/or less vocal individuals, who often become at that point unlikely even to try to 'break into' what has unintentionally become an exclusive group, whether or not their contributions to the discussion may be of useful note.

While it is obvious why this was done - it was an attempt to create more engagement - I hope that the same mistake won't be repeated here.

As far as the EN Forum goes, with its broader International rather than US-specific Community, I can only say that there are already few enough people now posting comments of any description at all, inclusively phrased/directed or otherwise, to the point where our own Forum Community, too, is now so heavily in decline that it is usually possible both to predict the commentators' names [and viewpoints] in any given thread AND to count them on the fingers of one hand... even without frankly unhelpful inter-personal exchanges like this one taking place.

Please note that this isn't a subject which I intend to pursue or debate in any depth, even assuming that anyone wished to do so - precisely because it IS so unhelpful when ANY open forum, online or not, begins to focus too much on any given speakers/listeners; but I also feel that NOT making my current point(s) would be even less helpful, in the long run - and 'taking it private' (as can sometimes be appropriate) doesn't solve a problem which is not only occurring on the open forum, but which also affects the entire forum community, too.

I have always regarded Net forums - or indeed any other locus of communication - as a place of mutual information exchange and open dialogue, and the fact that this particular Forum now has so very few and/or infrequent readers/commentators - and almost none who are new - is indicative, to me, of its decline into what can only be described as irrelevance, as already stated... and I am sure that none of us wants that?

In short, and @Silly Bubbles in particular : the level of 'personal sniping' is getting silly - and while I cannot, and would not attempt to, influence your opinion of me, to which you are fully entitled, of course, perhaps you might care to consider that posting comments such as you've directed towards me above is hardly in the interests either of us two personally, nor yet of the Forum Community at large, especially because this kind of thing is always so discouraging for any new contributors this Forum may yet - one hopes - attract?

Incidentally - and this goes out to any Forum Admins who might (?) be reading this - it is always possible, by means of (a) advertisement of the Forum, and (b) even-handed management and promotion of genuinely open debate, to reverse the decline of any Net Forum which enters the 'internecine death spiral' from which both EN and US Forums, each in their different ways, are now suffering, but pending such an effort possibly being made - and this time @nobody in particular - can we, the Community ourselves, please stop the mutually destructive in-fighting?

My only alternative, so far, to writing this open response (which I much hope will NOT be censored, that being the initial cause of the entire Forum's decline) has been, so far, not to respond at all to comments designed to provoke me into so doing, since legitimate response is very difficult in such circumstances and 'responding in kind' is the most destructive route of all - but failure to speak, by definition, achieves nothing.

Therefore : I can but try, and so I am - but still, my patience and morale - and my desire to remain here at all - are now wearing very thin.
 

Laurelin

Sorcerer
... I do have an on-topic viewpoint on small Trades, as it happens... but I am disinclined to state it until/unless my comment above survives intact.
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
@Laurelin , @Jake65 , @Alcaro

Ok, enough is enough, if you want to be mean just because someone has a different opinion to you that's up to you. Being condescending and being surprised that someone fights back is ridiculous. Have a look at yourself and the posts that you have made or liked, these posts were full of attacks. There's no surprise that people can't be bothered posting here, all they get is attitude just because they don't think like you.

PS. If you want to see the bad in my posts, you will, it doesn't necessary mean that they are. There's nothing wrong with them, it just depends on what you want to see and trust me you will see bad when you want to see bad. There is good in this world if you actually want to see it and don't push it away.
 

Jake65

Mentor
Lots of small trades don't bother me much but what does grind my gears is an established city posting loads of small 0* or 1* trades.

As a new player I used to place lots of small, repetitive trades. A helpful neighbour pointed out that if I need lots of goods I must post a large trade, someone will take it. They were right :)

I agree with @Sir Derf and @SkyRider99 that posting a range of trades is a good idea. Something for everyone.
 

Jake65

Mentor
Regarding the OP, being sentient goods it's not a new city by any means.
At least they're 2* trades.
Some days I'll take them all to clean up the trader list, other days I'll ignore them.
 

Jake65

Mentor
@Laurelin , @Jake65 , @Alcaro

Ok, enough is enough, if you want to be mean just because someone has a different opinion to you that's up to you. Being condescending and being surprised that someone fights back is ridiculous. Have a look at yourself and the posts that you have made or liked, these posts were full of attacks. There's no surprise that people can't be bothered posting here, all they get is attitude just because they don't think like you.

PS. If you want to see the bad in my posts, you will, it doesn't necessary mean that they are. There's nothing wrong with them, it just depends on what you want to see and trust me you will see bad when you want to see bad. There is good in this world if you actually want to see it and don't push it away.
Umm, not entirely sure why I'm getting tagged here unless it's because I "liked" a post.
There's limited reaction options and certainly no range of 1=strongly agree to 5=strongly disagree.
In terms of my engagement on any (anti)social media, first check is where does the debate/discussion sit on the Graham's hierarchy of disagreement? Anywhere near the bottom and I just meh and move on.
Meh.....
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
Umm, not entirely sure why I'm getting tagged here unless it's because I "liked" a post.
There's limited reaction options and certainly no range of 1=strongly agree to 5=strongly disagree.
In terms of my engagement on any (anti)social media, first check is where does the debate/discussion sit on the Graham's hierarchy of disagreement? Anywhere near the bottom and I just meh and move on.
Meh.....

Good excuse :D
 

Herodite

Mother of the Forum!
Elvenar Team
Rightyho... I like to think im pretty fair as a Moderator! As long as people get their point across in a polite manner (and within Forum Rules) i'm all for it.
Now... I can see this post running away with itself for all the wrong reasons so before I have to close what I consider a reasonable discussion about Trades... can we please keep to this topic alone.

Kind Regards

Herodite.
 

Fugawe

Seeker
To Jake's point, I would love a filter button that filters out 0 and 1 star trades. I know they are sorted by stars, but if I'm clicking on a bunch of trades, I'm always worried I'm going to take a lopsided trade due to a WiFi glitch, etc.
 
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