Gamers' Values (cheating)

[DeletedUser3337]

I have seen some interesting remarks yesterday as a respons to cheating (donating KP inbetween accounts)

Quote: "Im sorry, but how does this effect you or your game play at all, It doesn't hurt you or your city in anyway. So who cares what this person does."

Quote: "I have a main account and another small one.
I set up the small one to put kp's into my main city's AW's otherwise I'd never get them developed.
This is considered cheating? Well then cheat be I! I'm not hurting anyone, and I'm only helping my own main game to grow at a little faster pace."

Quote: "Hmmm I've never bothered to look at what non-FS neighbors have in their AW because I'm not about to donate any to them anyway."

Facinated as I am with human behaviour, I call out for any opinion.
Are our society's values deteriorating?

Debate.org opened a poll about this topic and some remarks caught my attention:
http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-our-societys-values-deteriorating
Quote: "Self centered is the word I use for society today, especially the younger generation."

Quote: "Majority are not disciplined and have little to no idea of what their morals and values should be."

Quote: "These things show that society is selfish and self centred where in years gone by people would be polite and caring about these things. Today it's all for one and one for one."

Quote: "I have to say that society's values are almost non existent today."

Do society's values only exist 'offgame' in the real world?
In other words should we think ... that 'ingame' there is no need for values, as its just a game?

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Wahoo lets all cheat, it's only a game at the end of the day!! Or ban those blatantly cheating now!!! More and more people will start cheating because the rules are not being enforced! Especially with Facebook groups you cannot moderate Inno!

Quote: "Philosophically speaking, when there are known "cheaters" and the "powers that be" willfully let it happen, it lessens the integrity of the game, and creates discontent, causing players to leave. Enough of these players leaving, and INNO stops the game. So..................writing is on the wall most likely. Unless INNO wants these push accounts to spend diamonds to keep the game going..........?"

Fantastic answer. Spot on I'd say because no one is being banned ;/

 

[DeletedUser441]

I was always told "Cheats never prosper". It just shows how ignorant those people that said that really were. Historically cheats always prosper until they are confronted and punished. Unfortunately more cheats succeed than fail because people fear confronting them ,for whatever reason they justify their inaction. Hence the world is full of successful immoral cheats .

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Boot a big cheat, the rest will soon stop in fear that their 24hrs a day playing 20 push accounts will be deleted. No life.

 

[DeletedUser3184]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what a push account is or what it does. Could someone explain please?

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Hi @GuardianDonna
A Push-account is an alternate account to ones main account, which is (mainly)being used to the players advantage.

Via a push-account a player can send KP and/or cheap resources to the main account.
Some have 2,3,4 or even upto 9/10 alternate accounts. Most of these are not active or hardly active.

Some take effort to hide it, some do it in open and name all their alt(ternate) account about the same.
Just to give you an example: peepee, peeburp, burps, burpie.
(I checked ingame, to make sure, these names do not exist, to prevent censor)

Some signs might indicate a player is not completely playing fair, like fe: his/her AW's give a huge amount of ranking points (60.000K and higher), sometimes tournaments can reveal a lot too.

 

[DeletedUser3184]

Thank you.

 

[DeletedUser441]

Annoying for those of us that spend a lot of time and effort to build a city fairly.

 

[Muf-Muf]

Good day all,

We can certainly discuss the topic of rule-breaking on the forums, as long as we do it in a civilized and respectful manner. Since this has not yet been the case for all posts on this topic, we would like to remind you of our forum rules.

To briefly sum up the most (not: "only") relevant rules:

• It is not allowed to discuss individual players, or to name players of who you suspect that they break the rules. If you want to report a player for suspected breaking of the game rules, you should contact our Support Team. The forum is not the right place for that.
  
• It is not allowed to use profanity. Also masked profanity is not allowed.
• Be polite and constructive in your posts.

This is important to consider when you are posting, since we want to keep the forums a pleasant place for every visitor. If you do not follow the rules, then you are the one who is ruining the atmosphere on the forums. We cannot and will not tolerate that, since we want the forums to be a fun and welcoming place for all players.

Regarding pushing itself, we want to make clear that, as per our game rules, it is not allowed to operate pushing accounts. On the topic of how we check for pushing itself and players breaking rules in general, we cannot share a whole lot: we do not want to tell cheating players exactly what we are looking for, as that would make it a lot easier for those players to cheat. We cannot and will not comment on what we look at exactly. Asking us to do so again and again will not change that answer. We are sorry, but that is just how it is.

We are happy to hear your feedback on this topic, and we are open to having that discussion on our forums. Since this topic is most definitely Elvenar-related, we will move this thread to the General Discussion section, because the Lounge is not the place to discuss those topics.

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Thank you muff-muff.

If you have spare time in your hectic schedule to remind us of the forum rules, can you take some of that precious time and remind those players who have been reported and are still cheating of the game rules they are breaking each day? Remind them with an in-game message. Most are not registered on the forums so will never see this ;/

Thank you.

 

[Muf-Muf]

Feel free to point those players to our forum to show them, if you are uncertain that they have seen the message. We are happy to discuss this, but of course we cannot force players to look at the forums.

 

[DeletedUser3032]

Unfortunately that will fail. We cannot send URLs in messages to people outside of the FS, We'd probably have to tell them how to copy and paste the link and then they will just not bother looking anyway. (WAIT a minute... hasn't this been suggested a billion times?) Because they are getting away with cheating, why would they care about reading the rules? To laugh at ridiculously hard knowing they will never be punished?

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Facinated as I am with human behaviour, I call out for any opinion.
Are our society's values deteriorating?

Do society's values only exist 'offgame' in the real world?
In other words should we think ... that 'ingame' there is no need for values, as its just a game?

This topic was actually about values lol, none Elvenar related but in general.
@Muf-Muf ah well if you wanne turn this into an Elvenar thing, I reported a player with hard cold evidence and you replied, now lets see if something happens

Oh and @Muf-Muf please be my guest and state your opinion:
Do you think society's values are deteriorating?

 

[Muf-Muf]

Can Inno publish a list of the cheaters banned accounts so that the community can see the results how their system works effectively?

No.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

Ok since I get mail ingame about this, I would like to write a bit about the gaming values of a particular player that I have been keeping an eye on. This is what I posted some time ago, note, the names are replaced with animals to prevent censor

Spoiler

Just for you, I visited some players in one single fellowship and see below, some examples of what I saw.
I replaced their nicknames with animals, for them to remain annoymous.

Small accounts:
-Ape has no AW, made 1700+ TP*
-Dog has no AW, made 1700+ TP
-Horse has 1 AW, lvl 1, no KP added, made 1200+ TP
-Fish has no AW, made 1600+ TP
-Spider has no AW, made 1500+ TP

If you visit the main account and open the AW's:
-Cheatah: Ape donated 100+KP, Dog donated 100+KP, Horse donated 90+KP, Fish donated 40+KP and Spider 30+KP

I visited the player and counted how many KP has been inserted in Ancient Wonders in total, by looking at the levels.
Read this well:
If the player started in November 2015 then by now it would be about 625 days ingame.
625 x 24KP a day = 15.000 KP
The player has gained about 3700 KP from provinces in the worldmap (ring 15)
Makes a total of: 18700 KP

Research has taken at least 15078 KP (End of Dragons)
There have been 60904 KP donated into Ancient Wonders!
Makes a total of : 75982 KP

The difference is 57282.
This is an impossible amount to gain from tournaments, AW bonus, Event chest etc because that would have to make up for:
92 KP a day!

I opened a ticket to hand over data: (for forum I had to replace names) to show the alts were not progressing.

Spoiler

Main account: cheatah
Alts worldmap progress a week ago vs today:
Ape: 3160 vs 3160
Dog: 2352 vs 2352
Fish: 2478 vs 2478
Spider: 2160 vs 2160
Horse: 2064 vs 2064

Alts working population a week ago vs today:
Ape: 7075 vs 7075
Dog: 2832 vs 2832
Fish: 2912 vs 2912
Spider: 2676 vs 2676
Horse: 2554 vs 2554

Part II ticket:

Spoiler

The alts however were active enough to donate KP to the main accounts Ancient Wonders, last week:
Ape: at least 219, alt has no AW of his own
Dog: at least 225, alt has no AW of his own
Fish: at least 191, alt has no AW of his own
Spider: at least 52, alt has no AW of his own
Horse: at least 50, has an Abyss at lvl 1 but no KP has ever been added.

To make my next point clear:
A month ago I visited the complete top 100 and checked how many ranking points they recieved from their AW's.
Ranging from 1107-77965.
The average was 11280
The 5 players that scored the highest ranking points had 77k, 62k, 42k, 32k and 30k.
Number 11 was already down to 18k.

Cheatah had 62k
A month later has reached 72k, that is 322 per day!
Today I visited to check on the AW's of this player, a month after I sent in a ticket with the data.
They still show ape, dog, fish, spider and horse are donating KP, as much as 398

Meanwhile more accounts have popped up (I was told this player has 15 alts) these donated 410 KP.
By now the alts have been removed from cheatahs fellowship as they seem to be replaced by regular players.
There has been a new FS set up to host the alts.

There is nothing that needs editing in this post. And it is very much on topic.

 

[Muf-Muf]

Briefly and clearly and without arguments.
Why not? The account name is public, not personal.
No games without a cheaters.
This is evidence that Inno does not deal with them.

Because we do not believe in naming and shaming. There is no point in doing that - it doesn't give any benefit for anyone.

There is nothing that needs editing in this post. And it is very much on topic.

Thanks for clearing that up, but that wasn't necessary to point out. It is actually the only line in the post that is off-topic.

 

[DeletedUser441]

It worries me that I see so many sites on the web stating they had cheats that gave free diamonds/coins etc. I detest cheats.

 

[DeletedUser3221]

Multiple cities on one server shouldn't be allowed. What's the point of allowing alternate accounts? How does it benefit the game?
Just ban them all and we won't have this account pushing issue in the first place.

 

[DeletedUser66]

What a shame! I do not want to shame them. And how is it possible to shame anonymous people hiding behind their account names?
You are worried about the reputation of cheaters, but what if attitude of Inno to this problem can offend normal players.
The reputation of InnoGames suffers much more than reputation of some anonymous "TheNiceGuy".
Just ban the main accounts of the cheaters and don't make empty excuses.

The administration of accounts lays solely with the moderation team, not the player. This means you are not entitled to any details about the procedures InnoGames has in place or the effects it has on player's account.

As a player, you are only provided the opportunity to play this game, provide feedback, ideas etc... But you may not intervene in the administrative affairs of the game.

It is against InnoGames' policy to provide any details about an account to the public. You do not have authorization as a player to dictate policy or demand such information.

Just saying.

It worries me that I see so many sites on the web stating they had cheats that gave free diamonds/coins etc. I detest cheats.

These are just sites designed to gather login information. They usually are in most games.

 

[Muf-Muf]

What a shame! I do not want to shame them. And how is it possible to shame anonymous people hiding behind their account names?
You are worried about the reputation of cheaters, but what if attitude of Inno to this problem can offend normal players.
The reputation of InnoGames suffers much more than reputation of some anonymous "TheNiceGuy".
Just ban the main accounts of the cheaters and don't make empty excuses.

Again, there is no benefit in naming and shaming. It would only make us look petty if we were to do it, and there is no upside for anyone. As you said, the people themselves are more or less anonymous anyways. So, how would it help anyone? We would much rather spend the time and energy on enforcing our game rules, and keeping the game a nice place for everyone.

It worries me that I see so many sites on the web stating they had cheats that gave free diamonds/coins etc. I detest cheats.

Just to emphasize this once more: there are no cheats for Elvenar. Any site that says otherwise is not legit, does not belong to InnoGames, and is not able to provide the services they claim they can. Do not download anything from such sites - they are harmful.

Multiple cities on one server shouldn't be allowed. What's the point of allowing alternate accounts? How does it benefit the game?
Just ban them all and we won't have this account pushing issue in the first place.

There is a difference between having multiple accounts and using multiple accounts to push one other account. Having and playing using multiple accounts in itself does not have any negative sides to it, and there is no reason for us to prohibit that, which is why we don't.