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Diplomacy in the Spire

Regina8

Adventurer
Well, when we had a bug on EN2 server and got double of everything in 12 chests, that felt like a holiday, somewhere in between those 2 parameters (the current and a double) would be great :)).
 

Pauly7

Immortal
Still waiting on a workshop as well,

I see it this way, I am in there for the long run, luck eventually evens out, eventually I will win them.
And even without the genie or magic workshop. at a certain time you can just buy workshops, and the spire itself is a genie on steroids when it comes to diamonds.
This is what I try to tell myself. I suppose I have been lucky to win at least 5 Genies.

The way I see it there have now been 30 weeks since the Spire started to give out the possibility of Magic Residences and Workshops. For everyone who has completed the first two levels on each of those 30 weeks, statistically 4.2% of them won't have won a Residence yet. So I guess I am luckier than a small unfortunate number of people who don't have one at all.

21.5% of these people still haven't won a Workshop, so not having one of those yet isn't so unusual.

So I know that I'm well within the realms of statistical likelihood... but it's starting to be tiresome! It would be nice if the probability increased the longer you have been since success... but I know that is way too complicated for the Elvenar maths engine.
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
I strongly believe that Spire requires a major overhaul of rewards. I am in a 12-chest spire FS, but recently there is a strong notion of Spire not being worth the costs of troops and goods. I think we've had enough of Moonstone Library set, seriously how many of those buildings do we need??? The overwhelming number of scrolls has flooded the trader. If it was silk on EN2 server - then fine, I would probably place some of those buildings. Level 3 gives the most sense of not worthiness, because at least on levels 1 & 2 we can occasionally win some magic buildings, but level 3 just very costly with no great rewards. I would like to have 1 constant prize of 1 Dwarven Armorer to be won somewhere in Spire. We use those buildings every week and knowing that I am getting 1 on completion of every spire would give me some satisfaction. Also, I believe that the number of CCs and 5- hour time boosters within 12 chests can be increased, they are not very generous at the moment.
I completely disagree, if you get 12 chests of team rewards you get more than enough rewards, whatever you get as individual rewards while playing is a bonus.
If you play alone it still is worth it in the long run, when rewards even out, but you can have the odd week of not worth it. Anyway, this is of no importance anymore because of the team rewards.
 

CrazyWizard

Sorcerer
Hi CrazyWizard, they are not really 400 diamonds, are they? It's 275 guaranteed from 12 chests, everything else is pure chance. Also, you need to spend some diamonds for diplomacy, because you just do...If those are such great rewards according to you, why is it that not that many players are rejoiced to do spire?
It's more than 400 on average, sometimes it's a bit more, sometimes it's a bit less, just because it isn't stable doesnt mean it doesn't count.
It's not pure chance, it's pure chance if you play it only once, then you cannot predict the outcome

But if you play it week over month over years it's part of an average and those in general are quite stable.
You cannot ignore randomised rewards because you do not always get the same number.
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
Hi CrazyWizard, they are not really 400 diamonds, are they? It's 275 guaranteed from 12 chests, everything else is pure chance. Also, you need to spend some diamonds for diplomacy, because you just do...If those are such great rewards according to you, why is it that not that many players are rejoiced to do spire?
Many player do rejoice to do the spire! I am one of them :D

We have quite a few gold medal FS on our server, but it does get tedious to tell people over and over how great the spire rewards are... In the end what do I care if you like the spire or not? I will continue to do it and I will get farther and farther ahead of everybody who does not finish every week. Of course later they always complain that they cannot keep up, but it is their own fault for not jumping on the gravy train :)
 

Regina8

Adventurer
lol this is coming from 2 players with 2-3 brown bears and almost all AWs maxed up (CrazyWizard). How is it that you are talking for everyone else??? I have my own opinion and I am managing 2 top FSs on 2 servers, I know how my players feel about Spire. You are both in a minority of players, so don't dismiss comments of other players!
 

Pauly7

Immortal
lol this is coming from 2 players with 2-3 brown bears and almost all AWs maxed up (CrazyWizard). How is it that you are talking for everyone else??? I have my own opinion and I am managing 2 top FSs on 2 servers, I know how my players feel about Spire. You are both in a minority of players, so don't dismiss comments of other players!
It's not just 2 players.

The Spire may not be for everyone, and that's fine. Some people only have a certain amount of resource sometimes and can only do what they can. For anyone who has the resources and time to do it and doesn't literally hate the process too much to try, I would advise everyone going as far as they comfortably can in the Spire each week.

In my FS, we're not one of the top echelon of Spire performers. We tend to reach up to 2 points from the top (we get around 1,000 Spire points). Doing this pays me enough time reducing instants each week to almost double my tournament scores... and that's lots more KPs to be won. Remember, though, 90% of these come from the team rewards at the end of the week. If your team isn't getting high enough then the Spire can sometimes seem like a thankless task.

Anything else to come from the Spire is a bonus. The diamonds sure can be useful. As you say they are often swept up by more Spire play, but that's fine. At least it pays for itself. You should also get a reasonable steady supply of Dwarven Armourers, which make the tournaments even easier. Plus lest we forget there is also the brucie bonus chance of winning Magic Residences, Magic Workshops and Genies, which I am sure are nice for everyone.
 

Regina8

Adventurer
Hi Pauly7, I am aware, both of my FSs are top performers in Spire, golden trophies week after week, most of our members finish Spire every single week, that is why we know what we are talking about. Every time we get moonstone library buildings - it's no reward at all, the rest are the spell fragments and at this point I would prefer those to library buildings because at least fragments I'll use... eventually lol. My original post was about rewards, especially for the level 3, I haven't seen Dwarven Armorer in a while, never mind genie. I simply pointed out that rewards should be revised. Moonstone library set has been there from the start and I am sure that everyone who wanted it - got it (10 times over lol).
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
lol this is coming from 2 players with 2-3 brown bears and almost all AWs maxed up (CrazyWizard). How is it that you are talking for everyone else??? I have my own opinion and I am managing 2 top FSs on 2 servers, I know how my players feel about Spire. You are both in a minority of players, so don't dismiss comments of other players!
75% of his AW levels are not helping him much (probably cost him more than they help him) and since he doesn´t fight, the brown bears have nothing to do with it.

You don´t need much to complete the spire every week. We have 25 people in the FS ranging from chapter 7 (and 20 AW levels) to 16 (with 300 AW lvls), all finish every week (except for holidays/work/time off etc).
The only thing you need is to play actively enough. Of course if you only log in once a day it gets more difficult to produce the necessary goods (or troops) in lower chapters.
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
Hi Pauly7, I am aware, both of my FSs are top performers in Spire, golden trophies week after week, most of our members finish Spire every single week, that is why we know what we are talking about. Every time we get moonstone library buildings - it's no reward at all, the rest are the spell fragments and at this point I would prefer those to library buildings because at least fragments I'll use... eventually lol. My original post was about rewards, especially for the level 3, I haven't seen Dwarven Armorer in a while, never mind genie. I simply pointed out that rewards should be revised. Moonstone library set has been there from the start and I am sure that everyone who wanted it - got it (10 times over lol).
Disenchant it then...

I agree for us who play a lot the library is not an insanely valuable prize anymore, so what? Put it together with all the PP spells in the box of "who cares". The team rewards alone are more than worth playing the spire for. The rest is just extra and over the top rewards.
 

Regina8

Adventurer
75% of his AW levels are not helping him much (probably cost him more than they help him) and since he doesn´t fight, the brown bears have nothing to do with it.

You don´t need much to complete the spire every week. We have 25 people in the FS ranging from chapter 7 (and 20 AW levels) to 16 (with 300 AW lvls), all finish every week (except for holidays/work/time off etc).
The only thing you need is to play actively enough. Of course if you only log in once a day it gets more difficult to produce the necessary goods (or troops) in lower chapters.
I know all about your FS, we play on the same server lol. Do you even "listen" to what I'm saying or you are just arguing for the heck of it???
Disenchant it then...

I agree for us who play a lot the library is not an insanely valuable prize anymore, so what? Put it together with all the PP spells in the box of "who cares". The team rewards alone are more than worth playing the spire for. The rest is just extra and over the top rewards.
Ah, finally! so you do agree with me lol. So wouldn't you like the rewards to be revised and get a better prizes for your efforts? Don't put this childish comments here please!
 

Pauly7

Immortal
Hi Pauly7, I am aware, both of my FSs are top performers in Spire, golden trophies week after week, most of our members finish Spire every single week, that is why we know what we are talking about. Every time we get moonstone library buildings - it's no reward at all, the rest are the spell fragments and at this point I would prefer those to library buildings because at least fragments I'll use... eventually lol. My original post was about rewards, especially for the level 3, I haven't seen Dwarven Armorer in a while, never mind genie. I simply pointed out that rewards should be revised. Moonstone library set has been there from the start and I am sure that everyone who wanted it - got it (10 times over lol).
Level 3 rewards are definitely poor, on a personal level. It seems to me that the top prizes for completing each level are Magic Residence, Magic Workship and Genie, respectively. Out of those three the Genie is the poorest of the three and so it is strange for it to be at the top. In any case the chances of winning them are remote. It's like when someone emails you and says "you've been selected for the opportunity to enter a competition". Hmm.

Personally, I'd like to see the top chest in each level to be something like the following:

Level 1: 5hr time instant (guaranteed), plus Magic Residence (10% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 90%
Level 2: 3 x 5hr time instant (guaranteed), plus Genie (5% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 95%
Level 3: Dwarven Armourer (guaranteed), plus Magic Workshop (5% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 95%

Spire set pieces should only remain part of the equation to players who don't already have one at chapter level in their city or inventory (we know they've got the skills to do this.)
 

Regina8

Adventurer
Level 3 rewards are definitely poor, on a personal level. It seems to me that the top prizes for completing each level are Magic Residence, Magic Workship and Genie, respectively. Out of those three the Genie is the poorest of the three and so it is strange for it to be at the top. In any case the chances of winning them are remote. It's like when someone emails you and says "you've been selected for the opportunity to enter a competition". Hmm.

Personally, I'd like to see the top chest in each level to be something like the following:

Level 1: 5hr time instant (guaranteed), plus Magic Residence (10% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 90%
Level 2: 3 x 5hr time instant (guaranteed), plus Genie (5% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 95%
Level 3: Dwarven Armourer (guaranteed), plus Magic Workshop (5% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 95%

Spire set pieces should only remain part of the equation to players who don't already have one at chapter level in their city or inventory (we know they've got the skills to do this.)
Wonderful proposition Pauly7! I really love it! How do we make Inno listen to this now?
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
I know all about your FS, we play on the same server lol. Do you even "listen" to what I'm saying or you are just arguing for the heck of it???
I answer exactly to what you say, look in what I quoted. You put nonsensical arguments forward, I disagree with them.


Ah, finally! so you do agree with me lol. So wouldn't you like the rewards to be revised and get a better prizes for your efforts? Don't put this childish comments here please!
No I would not like the spire rewards changed. I find the spire is offering MORE than enough rewards as it is. You cannot expect 100% of amazing rewards, some rewards have to be crap. At least there are different rewards, so the chance that there is something good for everybody is higher.

Even more would only bring the next nerf on us faster and completely destroy the spire most likely, since that tends to be the way with Inno: Increase rewards to ridiculous amounts and then completely destroy it. So no, please not more rewards!
 

Gargon667

Illusionist
Level 3 rewards are definitely poor, on a personal level. It seems to me that the top prizes for completing each level are Magic Residence, Magic Workship and Genie, respectively. Out of those three the Genie is the poorest of the three and so it is strange for it to be at the top. In any case the chances of winning them are remote. It's like when someone emails you and says "you've been selected for the opportunity to enter a competition". Hmm.

Personally, I'd like to see the top chest in each level to be something like the following:

Level 1: 5hr time instant (guaranteed), plus Magic Residence (10% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 90%
Level 2: 3 x 5hr time instant (guaranteed), plus Genie (5% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 95%
Level 3: Dwarven Armourer (guaranteed), plus Magic Workshop (5% chance)... or one of various others making up the other 95%

Spire set pieces should only remain part of the equation to players who don't already have one at chapter level in their city or inventory (we know they've got the skills to do this.)
But that is only personal preference...

For me the best prize is an Armorer, the second best the Genie and third on the list for me are Teleports.
Neither Magic Houses or Magic WS have any more value as I have enough of them already and will not place any more of them. Well I haven´t upgraded all my houses yet, so I guess if I get another House from the spire I can sell an old one and add a new one, so it will save me 300 Diamonds for the upgrade... Libraries are worth the same as a (16 square) Teleport (so I can sell a Library and replace it with a new one later)
Since I can get both of my preferred options from the last boss, the setup as is makes much more sense to me than changing it.

Well and I already said I wouldn´t like to increase the overall rewards so no to guaranteed armorers etc...
 
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Regina8

Adventurer
I answer exactly to what you say, look in what I quoted. You put nonsensical arguments forward, I disagree with them.




No I would not like the spire rewards changed. I find the spire is offering MORE than enough rewards as it is. You cannot expect 100% of amazing rewards, some rewards have to be crap. At least there are different rewards, so the chance that there is something good for everybody is higher.

Even more would only bring the next nerf on us faster and completely destroy the spire most likely, since that tends to be the way with Inno: Increase rewards to ridiculous amounts and then completely destroy it. So no, please not more rewards!
Oh, I see what you are saying, let's just play for the heck of it and not ask anything better, because chances are that the changes will bring us only everything worse? I believe that as experienced players we should tell Inno what should be improved in the game. Only a few of FSs go for golden trophies and most of players stir clear of it. Spire should be an important part of this game and most of players don't want to hear anything about it because of their bad experience there. That is why, as players who finish it every week and can afford it, we should tell what can be improved to make other players return to Spire.
 

Regina8

Adventurer
But that is only personal preference...

For me the best prize is an Armorer, the second best the Genie and third on the list for me are Teleports.
Neither Magic Houses or Magic WS have any more value as I have enough of them already and will not place any more of them. Well I haven´t upgraded all my houses yet, so I guess if I get another House from the spire I can sell an old one and add a new one, so it will save me 300 Diamonds for the upgrade... Libraries are worth the same as a (16 square) Teleport (so I can sell a Library and replace it with a new one later)
Since I can get both of my preferred options from the last boss, the setup as is makes much more sense to me than changing it.
Again a very subjective subjective view on rewards, just because you have all magic buildings (we are very happy for you), doesn't mean that everyone else have them. Most of us get really happy to receive those in Spire. FYI I don't take you serious anymore, nothing that you have said so far, has any substance to it.
 

Pauly7

Immortal
But that is only personal preference...

For me the best prize is an Armorer, the second best the Genie and third on the list for me are Teleports.
Neither Magic Houses or Magic WS have any more value as I have enough of them already and will not place any more of them. Well I haven´t upgraded all my houses yet, so I guess if I get another House from the spire I can sell an old one and add a new one, so it will save me 300 Diamonds for the upgrade... Libraries are worth the same as a (16 square) Teleport (so I can sell a Library and replace it with a new one later)
Since I can get both of my preferred options from the last boss, the setup as is makes much more sense to me than changing it.
People will have preferences sure. The important part from my suggestion, though, was to have a guaranteed prize in each of the top chests of each level. This would take away some of the Spire anger because people would no longer be completely at the mercy of the RNG. Also, your favourite is the Armourer, which is what I placed as the guaranteed award for opening the top chest.