Cross tier trades

[Timneh]

Sorry but why cross-tier trade is unfair with the actual 16:4:1 ratio is easy to understand..

Sorry but nowhere in my post that you quoted did i say i think cross tier trades are unfair. What i said was that i do not like them. Big difference between the two.

 

[Tonton-des-bois]

I don't think there will ever be an answer to the arguement over what is fair or unfair regarding cross tier trading[...]

Sorry but I just gave you the answer you thought that wasn't existing... nothing more nothing less
I never said you were thinking the cross tier was fair or unfair...
I'm sorry if I quoted too much of your post. Corrected !

 

[DeletedUser3034]

Problem is everybody wants a "one size fits all" answer.

 

[Timneh]

Sorry but I just gave you the answer you thought that wasn't existing... nothing more nothing less
I never said you were thinking the cross tier was fair or unfair...
I'm sorry if I quoted too much of your post. Corrected !

Aha ok no problem. I think maybe i should have said that there will never be a time when everyone agrees about what is fair or unfair with cross tier trades instead of never be an answer.

 

[Aisling1]

Fair or Unfair... Cross Tier Trading.

There's nothing wrong with cross tier trading, there's nothing wrong with any trade, 0 to 3 star, cross or otherwise... those of us who've played a while understand. Take the trade if it suits you..

The problem is offering Tier III for Tier I.
Back Tier Cross Trading.

The problem is that the game, after certain chapters are reached, have less need for Tier I, and that it is the slowest, most expensive and most difficult to upgrade/ boost/ produce... . so we have a more 3 + to 5/6 to 4 ratio after dwarves..
We have plenty, perhaps of our own boosted and no need for Tier I goods.. if we're not participating in tournaments, or expanding (seriously discouraged)

It makes sense, to knock a Tier I manufactory and replace it with a Tier II... and then again, to use your space to have as many Tier III as you can... and the workshops and residences are not on a 16:4:1 ratio either... the game encourages upgrading and boosting of Tier III over Tier I and Tier II.. as do the expansions, quests and special quests...

If the 16:4:1 ratio held true, then for every one Tier III manufactory you would have 4 Tier II and 16 Tier III.. - and residences and manufactories to meet... the only way you have that is with more diamond expansions or good luck than is feasible... and it won't last..you'll run out of space if only because of the culture..

but... if you've a lot of Tier III and Tier II then you won't be interested in trading for 25 or 15 gems... you'll be doing 5k for 4.5 k and not missing the discount...and the lower level, chapter 11 and 1players give up, in fact, players who make it to the dwarf chapter give up... and you only have to look at the dead villages on the map to see how they have renamed them to see why...

The wholesaler was a way of buying Tier I for trading for the slower, newer, whatever, on the map... a way of trading in non boosted.
I've still used the wholesaler, but I won't trade in non boosted, considering what it costs me. I've put my "excess coin" into kps or cultural upgrades or even into demolishing and rebuilding... and unlocking provinces where I can't win or fight or cater encounters... but I won't be doing the next quest, because "buy 20 kps" or spend 20 kps is going to cost me 14 to 21 days production..

I think there are a lot of players out there sitting on serious stock piles of goods that are no use to them, but they will never trade them them at less than 3:1... and I think you've undone the free trade system by making the wholesaler too expensive..
Also... it might be a good idea to reset the cost of kps...

 

[Aisling1]

No problem at all. Here is the answer.

As all goods are necessary in identical quantities for upgrading, researching and negotiating in provinces, their value is nearly equal regardless of production cost. Therefore

No problem at all. Here is the answer.

As all goods are necessary in identical quantities for upgrading, researching and negotiating in provinces, their value is nearly equal regardless of production cost. Therefore

1. Produce only the boosted goods in approximately equal quantities.
2. Don't bother with crappy trade system if you don't want to abuse other players with cross trades. Exchange the same tier goods in the ratio of 1:1.

Where I come from there's an award.. [Moderator Edit: Please keep this discussion civil]

 

[Aisling1]

T
Sorry, that was rude...
but you're missing the point.
I did that ages ago and it doesn't help... as the required goods for upgrades are not similar or equal or identical, nor is the cost of producing obtaining them.

 

[Timneh]

The situation of cross tier trading is getting insane in my neighbourhood now. Every day i am seeing trades like 100 planks offered and 100 crystal demanded or 700 marble offered and 713 silk demanded or 100 steel offered and 25 elixir demanded, they are just 3 of the ones on the trader now, there are quite a few more(another 10). This is not just happening on the occasional day but every day. I never saw these stupid trades before the wholesaler change.

 

[sunrae]

. This is not just happening on the occasional day but every day. I never saw these stupid trades before the wholesaler change.

I have seen way too many as well so my answer has been to flood the trader board with like for like 2 star trades. I do pages and pages of them, from very small to larger ones. I do think it has helped. I actually think that like real life money markets people panicked and as more cross tier trades went up it encouraged others to do the same. I never used to see very many cross tier trades, it is a recent thing and I actually do not like them on principle. If you have a good ratio of tiered factories and enough of them and trade every day then there really is no need for them. I do struggle for some goods due to scarcity of makers but if I wait long enough they do eventually get traded.

I really like the new trader stalls we can get in the Phoenix quest and although they don't make millions if kept working 24/7 they will get me out of a fix. I have been stuck on the tech tree waiting for elixir before and had to wait 3 - 4 days so this should help.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

@Timneh There are more cross-tier trades of late but I don't think it is the wholesaler but fellowship tournaments. We saw the same phenomenon when tournaments first arrived, I hope it settles down a little but do expect it will always be worse than before. I do wish I could see some trades like the ones you describe at almost 1:1 between tiers. I rarely see 3 star cross tier trades (I don't count those offering a 1% gain a 3 star rating as 3 stars)

The biggest issue is supply and demand. Someone somewhere is supplying those trades otherwise they would die a painful and unfulfilled life. As long as the supply continues there will always be demand.

 

[Aisling1]

I hate to say I told you so...
And how's the 'hood these days..???
Making lots of new useful friends through trading.. ???

 

[Aisling1]

@Timneh There are more cross-tier trades of late but I don't think it is the wholesaler but fellowship tournaments. We saw the same phenomenon when tournaments first arrived, I hope it settles down a little but do expect it will always be worse than before. I do wish I could see some trades like the ones you describe at almost 1:1 between tiers. I rarely see 3 star cross tier trades (I don't count those offering a 1% gain a 3 star rating as 3 stars)

eone somewhere is supplying those trades otherwise they would die a painful and unfulfilled life. As long as the supply continues there will always be demand.[/QUOTE

Mykan, come and have a look at my map.
Look at the dead, defunct cities at dwarves and beyond.
Look at the amount of start ups that fail in the first week...
Look at the players I can no longer help..

I have my FS, so I'm okay... as long as that lasts!
but the trader is cat... I used to be famous for being a trader.. the amount of polishing and nice messages I got.. no more!

I have two cities - one in Winyandor, and one in Aryndell.. once since August, one since October 2016... come and play for a week in either or both.. I'll get it past the archmage... start a city and join either of my FS as a guest, for a week..

So that you can really see/ feel/ and experience our problems...
(I do think if more of you did that, and weren't in the beta.. you'd actually hear where we're coming from!)

Then tell me the wholesaler change was all good, the tournament change was all good... AND why...
by the way, the new graphics may be politically correct, but they really aren't attractive.. I'd like my old scantily clad elf back..

 

[Timneh]

@Timneh There are more cross-tier trades of late but I don't think it is the wholesaler but fellowship tournaments. We saw the same phenomenon when tournaments first arrived, I hope it settles down a little but do expect it will always be worse than before. I do wish I could see some trades like the ones you describe at almost 1:1 between tiers. I rarely see 3 star cross tier trades (I don't count those offering a 1% gain a 3 star rating as 3 stars)

The biggest issue is supply and demand. Someone somewhere is supplying those trades otherwise they would die a painful and unfulfilled life. As long as the supply continues there will always be demand.

There have always been cross tier trades yes but never like the ones i see now. Offering tier 1 goods and demanding the same quantity of tier 2 or tier 3 goods is new in the last few weeks. As i write this there are 8 zero star trades asking for tier 2 goods when tier 1 goods are being offered, most of them are asking for 100 scrolls in exchange for 100 steel.
I agree that someone must be taking them or as you say they would slowly dissappear but i still say that in my neighbourhood they have got a lot more common since the wholesaler change.

 

[DeletedUser1829]

There have always been cross tier trades yes but never like the ones i see now. Offering tier 1 goods and demanding the same quantity of tier 2 or tier 3 goods is new in the last few weeks. As i write this there are 8 zero star trades asking for tier 2 goods when tier 1 goods are being offered, most of them are asking for 100 scrolls in exchange for 100 steel.
I agree that someone must be taking them or as you say they would slowly dissappear but i still say that in my neighbourhood they have got a lot more common since the wholesaler change.

I have noticed those 1:1 trades appearing, haven't seen the 0 star trades asking for them yet. Remember the tournament change occurred immediately before the wholesaler change. It is difficult to say one is the cause or the other, assuming it isn't something else. I simply choose to belief it is the tournaments based on historical evidence.

I think regardless of releases there is so much talk of late about cross-tier trades that it by itself has become the "in" thing to try. My trading is as good as ever on every world but it is a pain to have to sift through the offers I don't want to find those I do. Really hope we get more filtering options so it is easier to find the trades we desire.

@Aisling1 I have survived over 12 months with only 2 active people in my neighbourhood, this changed when the player movements began. I had more gold mines as neighbours than towns regardless of active or not. So I am very familiar with the pain of those types of areas. I however do not see how that has any impact on cross-tier trades. Bottom line is if the resources just aren't in that area no amount of cross-tier trading is going to make them appear, just the same as no amount of generous same tier trading will.

 

[sunrae]

Bottom line is if the resources just aren't in that area no amount of cross-tier trading is going to make them appear, just the same as no amount of generous same tier trading will.

I agree, I have one city in a no-mans land and it is hard work. But if you are in a land where there are plenty of folk, as I am in a couple of my cities, but they are just trading poor deal cross-tier then bombarding them with like for like 2* has helped me. Firstly my trades get snapped up and secondly I have observed more of the same being offered back. I figure those that are taking the zero*/1* cross trades are just really desperate and that makes me

In the dead zone of course then nothing that I or you do can improve our lot until there is city movement.