Autumn Zodiac

[DeletedUser622]

Random event tasks in their current form are unfair. I can see how they stop people preparing for tasks that have been posted on other sites but the implementation has had no thought. Any basic programmer just out of university can write a random generator to select from a list of quests. The problem with that solution is that some person could potentially receive the same quest many times over, e.g. produce 3 Tool Boxes. Getting that quest 3 times in a row is 3 days out of one person's time frame while other people are happily progressing on other quests that take much less time. The person receiving the 3 sequential one day quests will find it much more difficult to complete all the quests thus being disadvantaged.

Solutions:

• Make all the quests take exactly the same time to complete.
• Make quests doable only once. This is relatively simple to achieve programatically. Any container object (that which holds the list of quests) has an index for each of its elements (quests). Each player could simply have a code associated with their account that indicates the indexes of the quests still available to them. The code is updated after they complete each quest, i.e. the quest is removed from the list. The random generator can be used to select from the remaining quests. This way everyone gets the same quests but in different orders. The code is not difficult to write and is a fairer alternative than the current system.

 

[DeletedUser1874]

Random event tasks in their current form are unfair. I can see how they stop people preparing for tasks that have been posted on other sites but the implementation has had no thought. Any basic programmer just out of university can write a random generator to select from a list of quests. The problem with that solution is that some person could potentially receive the same quest many times over, e.g. produce 3 Tool Boxes. Getting that quest 3 times in a row is 3 days out of one person's time frame while other people are happily progressing on other quests that take much less time. The person receiving the 3 sequential one day quests will find it much more difficult to complete all the quests thus being disadvantaged.

Solutions:

• Make all the quests take exactly the same time to complete.
• Make quests doable only once. This is relatively simple to achieve programatically. Any container object (that which holds the list of quests) has an index for each of its elements (quests). Each player could simply have a code associated with their account that indicates the indexes of the quests still available to them. The code is updated after they complete each quest, i.e. the quest is removed from the list. The random generator can be used to select from the remaining quests. This way everyone gets the same quests but in different orders. The code is not difficult to write and is a fairer alternative than the current system.

You're very correct, and I'm sure this input would be well-received... if their intent was that of getting rid of an element that is by design intended to slow us down and make the event annoying, as to exploit our FOMO and thus entice us into spending money to speed it up and "complete" it. They even stated in a recent live interview on Facebook that the annoying RNG system is there to stay (though they were unable to provide a coherent explanation for it, and as a matter of fact when faced with the question they were visibly nervous and stuttered, only to resume to a state of relaxation and cheerfulness as soon as the topic shifted).
So make your peace folks, because just as phones suffer from planned obsolescence, so Elvenar will suffer from planned unbearableness. It's the same exact trend as with many other games: devs make the game annoying on purpose and offer payed solutions to get rid of such annoyances. Of course this is not something they'll ever be able to admit.

 

[RainbowElvira]

Raistlin, I like your suggestions to improve the issue with the random quests. Your first suggestion to make all quests take the same time would be much of a challenge for Inno - and very easy to do wrong for them. Just look at the "improvement" to use only buildings from your current advancement.

I think the second suggestion with a fixed list but random order would work. I'm afraid it's not random enough for the devs, though.

Another problem I see is with the endless quests. You mentioned a quest "Produce 3 Toolboxes". This quest will take 24 hours, blocking 3 workshops (of your current advancement - [I don't care] chapters lately) OR 1 minute in 1 workshop at the expense of 72 hours time boosters. This was possible with the fixed quests too - the power players were done with the event on the third day, while the more casual players needed the whole time. With the endless quests / endless rewards it's no longer about finishing sooner or later, but about having 5 or 50 (estimated) artifacts. Those who end up with 5 or less artifacts for having endured the most boring event ever, will most likely be annoyed. The players who achieve high will either be happy or annoyed to be "forced" to an unhealthy playstyle or annoyed by the unfairness this badly thought out system brings.

Almost everybody is now bored or even annoyed with this random/endless approach. Personally, I do not see any fast or easy way that this quest system could be fixed.

They even stated in a recent live interview on Facebook that the annoying RNG system is there to stay

I hope they think about it again. Dear devs, the events used to be one of the best parts game for (not only) me, please don't let them die just because you are too proud to admit a mistake. Revert it back to a fixed quest list with a story attached to them. Please.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think this sums the situation up well. In this event I have got heavily involved in it and have almost completed my bear. Once I do I will stop playing the event and not look back at it.

In the future I am going to be strong and only start playing one event every three months like the old days and only where there's a format which doesn't cause me to upset my city progress as I have decided.

Like many have said, they keep doing too many events and making decisions that upset the masses because they make more money when they do. As @Timneh always tells us, the one and only way people can effect change is to not play the events.

I've been having the same thoughts as you. In the past I've skipped a few events because I didn't want to do the spending KP quests and a few others. I'll be skipping the next one and taking things easy in my city because my health comes first and too much screen time is bad for us. Whether I do any more in future depends on whether the next one is made better for the players. I'll read what people say.

 

[Timneh]

Reading the Beta thread it seems that the only thing they will change is the back to back repeating of quests. This is a little worrying in itself because in the past whenever the devs have changed something "due to player feedback" it was made even worse than it was.
When it comes to this game i always think be careful what you wish for because you just might get it....but it won't be the way you wanted it.

 

[DeletedUser5532]

[QUOTE="This is a little worrying in itself because in the past whenever the devs have changed something "due to player feedback" it was made even worse than it was.
.[/QUOTE]

I would rather think that the devs have NEVER changed anything dues to player feedback, but rather followed their plans regardless. Sometimes changes that they like to force through come in several stages, and they implement stage 1, then wait for feedback. If feedback is given which almost aligns with stage 2, they will trumpet it loud, and claim the change is due to player feedback.

The game is run by shareholders, who care for nothing more than the short term gain, at which point they will move to the next investment. We should not be surprised with how things are going in the game, it happens to all games at some time or another.

 

[IronOrchid]

• scout a province
• scout a province
• scout a province
• scout a province
• and repeat

Think your in Evener? Think again for this is the twilight zone! Do do do do - do do do do

 

[Alcaro]

You're very correct, and I'm sure this input would be well-received... if their intent was that of getting rid of an element that is by design intended to slow us down and make the event annoying, as to exploit our FOMO and thus entice us into spending money to speed it up and "complete" it. They even stated in a recent live interview on Facebook that the annoying RNG system is there to stay (though they were unable to provide a coherent explanation for it, and as a matter of fact when faced with the question they were visibly nervous and stuttered, only to resume to a state of relaxation and cheerfulness as soon as the topic shifted).
So make your peace folks, because just as phones suffer from planned obsolescence, so Elvenar will suffer from planned unbearableness. It's the same exact trend as with many other games: devs make the game annoying on purpose and offer payed solutions to get rid of such annoyances. Of course this is not something they'll ever be able to admit.

This is a little worrying in itself because in the past whenever the devs have changed something "due to player feedback" it was made even worse than it was.

I would rather think that the devs have NEVER changed anything dues to player feedback, but rather followed their plans regardless. Sometimes changes that they like to force through come in several stages, and they implement stage 1, then wait for feedback. If feedback is given which almost aligns with stage 2, they will trumpet it loud, and claim the change is due to player feedback.

The game is run by shareholders, who care for nothing more than the short term gain, at which point they will move to the next investment. We should not be surprised with how things are going in the game, it happens to all games at some time or another.

...many other games ... and yeah, many other games just "died".
I do not mind spending money in a game, but I do mind when you (as game developer, shareholders, whatever ...) think you can force me to do so. I will spend money when I want and on what I want, is my decision and not yours to take. And if you think for a second that I can be forced to spend money to "save my sanity", you are dead wrong! I will quit the game entirely before I will spend one more dime.
From my point of view, the devs obviously have no clue about human psychology and behaviour. Yeah, it's possible that being frustrated at some point to make you spend some money or diamonds (which is the same **) but not forever. But most likely a person would spend money in an enjoyable game, where s/he feels comfortable and likes the environment. Here's not the case anymore.

Btw, I got 3 other Scout/ tech/ 15 vapors quests - this ups the sum to 10 "random" in a row quest.

 

[LazyTony]

I used diamonds to refresh my crafting recipes for the first time ever earlier today. Because of the event ofc. The 5 recipes I got after the refresh were all things I craft regularly - time boosts, pet food, ground of orc strategist, military buildings. In fact, I craft nothing but those things outside of events. Ofc, this could be a coincidence, but the odds seems vanishingly small of all 5 recipes being stuff I want. Could they have coded this?

 

[Alcaro]

I don't know if is a coincidence or not, but I refreshed the recipes also some days ago and got 3 petfood, 1 military boost and something else ... and I wanted all 5, so I used time instants and got all 5. But now, I get only lame recipes which give 1-3 vapors (runes and useless tiny buildings)

 

[DeletedUser1874]

I do not mind spending money in a game, but I do mind when you (as game developer, shareholders, whatever ...) think you can force me to do so. I will spend money when I want and on what I want, is my decision and not yours to take. And if you think for a second that I can be forced to spend money to "save my sanity", you are dead wrong! I will quit the game entirely before I will spend one more dime.
From my point of view, the devs obviously have no clue about human psychology and behaviour. Yeah, it's possible that being frustrated at some point to make you spend some money or diamonds (which is the same **) but not forever. But most likely a person would spend money in an enjoyable game, where s/he feels comfortable and likes the environment. Here's not the case anymore.

Btw, I got 3 other Scout/ tech/ 15 vapors quests - this ups the sum to 10 "random" in a row quest.

Same exact thing. I even like supporting devs that I feel deserve it. There's a completely free game I won't name, for instance, which is funded entirely by microtransactions that are exclusively aesthetic in nature. Gameplay-wise, paying customers and non-paying ones are exactly on the same level. Needless to say, I vote with my wallet, so I'm very happy to shower that other game with money (which is one of the biggest earners ever in the history of video games, coincidence?) - with Elvenar, less so at every update.
So yeah, I agree with you - up to the point where you say the devs have no clue about human psychology. They do, and they're clearly very adept at exploiting its weaknesses. I always recommend Jim Sterling's videos for insights on this matter, they're very informative and funny.

 

[m4rt1n]

I used diamonds to refresh my crafting recipes for the first time ever earlier today. Because of the event ofc. The 5 recipes I got after the refresh were all things I craft regularly - time boosts, pet food, ground of orc strategist, military buildings. In fact, I craft nothing but those things outside of events. Ofc, this could be a coincidence, but the odds seems vanishingly small of all 5 recipes being stuff I want. Could they have coded this?

I doubt it as I did the same thing the other day and got 5 lots of things that are useless and I never craft like the 2x1 buildings and relics.

 

[Pauly7]

I doubt it as I did the same thing the other day and got 5 lots of things that are useless and I never craft like the 2x1 buildings and relics.

Me too. In fact in my annoyance I refreshed it again and still got nothing I could use. I'm just playing into their hands. I won't do that again.

 

[Alcaro]

@Vetrinus - thank you for pointing out Sterling's videos. Just watched - The Addictive Cost Of Predatory Videogame Monetization.
Wow! Just WOW! Was like a good (and in time) slap on the face. I knew I was at one inch away from becoming addicted to games ...
Thanks a lot.

 

[DeletedUser1874]

@Vetrinus - thank you for pointing out Sterling's videos. Just watched - The Addictive Cost Of Predatory Videogame Monetization.
Wow! Just WOW! Was like a good (and in time) slap on the face. I knew I was at one inch away from becoming addicted to games ...
Thanks a lot.

You're most welcome - I feel he does an awesome job as a video game journalist, in a funny yet insightful and clever way. And I say this as someone who's on the opposite side on the political spectrum when it comes to economic matters - yet I've no issue in acknowledging the truths in his warnings against unbridled corporate and shareholder greed. And I'm a greedy shareholder myself, though not for the video game industry.

 

[LazyTony]

Greed is good. You just need to incentivise greed with good consequences, and de-incentivise greed with bad consequences. Thats why I am considering quitting freemium games - the incentives are misaligned. The developer is incentivised to artificially create situations that make me want to spend. A subscription based or one off charge game is incentivised to provide me with a fun experience I want to repeat.

 

[DeletedUser9434]

I'm not often been seen on the forum, not before this and probably not after.
I used to love playing elvenar, had 3 accounts, Zora Zandkorrel, Dinky2toy, and Segna and rather spend my time playing instead of talking about it.
I'm here now to spit out my annoyance about this event.
I used to love events, they were giving me a real adrenaline kick... I understand this event was designed to slow us back...
well... well done elvenar team... it works.
At the same time, it destroys the attraction of coming back to the game ... it's boring, demanding, not attractive at all.
Doing the same quest all over is not fun
Not being able to plan in advance and then have to wait endlessly to get a task done... not fun
It destroys all build up stocks of goods and boosters...
and on top of that all... the rewards are scarce.
for me, it comes down to the following...

another event like this and I won't be playing for the duration of it... lots of time to find other things to do, big chance I won't come back at all
not sure maybe that was the intention... elvenar having too many active players... time to get rid of some enthusiastic ones? Especially those who play tactics, think economic and winning lots of rewards

 

[sunrae]

Some one suggested - and I will find their comment to credit them (I think it was on beta) when I have the hours to trawl through them all - that instead of giving us quests that are time specific ( 15mins/3hrs/9hrs/24hrs etc) have quests that require us to make a certain amount of supplies and goods, ie produce 5,000 or 10,000, or 100,000 supplies; produce 500, 1000 or 10,000 or 50,000 goods (from any T1,T2,T3 manus) Players can then choose to sit on short productions when they have the time, using spells if they wish, or to make long productions when they don't. This way would work with those in any chapter and the figures can be calculated to their main hall or chapter level. *(these figures are not accurate they are just out of my head to give examples)

This would mean that everyone can make their own choices how to play the event whilst keeping it fair for all to do without worrying about how many extra high level workshops they may need to build to keep up, (again comes down to individual player choice) or how much space they have left when hosting a guest race.

We could have quests that ask us to produce items and quests that ask us to gain items. They can be on the level of goods which we would normally take the hours to produce but we would have the choice which productions suit us the best.

I think this is an excellent idea (whoever you are I promise I will find your forum post)

I liked the change to the event initially, its great not having to make room for lots of little buildings, BUT having nearly finished now on beta (brown bear lvl 10 x 1) and in the thick of it on live I am bored. It is not giving us enough to do for a big event. The previous style events had a sense of excitment about them, a sense of urgency, and FUN. The quests we keep getting (dozens of long nothing to do but wait quests) are boring. I do not object to the occasional long scouting but like many have said they are running too consecutively with way too many repeated quests that are world map related. Obviously we play events to gain prizes for our efforts but I mainly play events because they are fun. I really like the bears and that's the reason I'm doing it on my live cities, for the prize rather than for the fun and that's disappointing as its not what the game is about for me.

 

[Timneh]

@sunrae the idea to produce quantities of things in workshops and manufactories has indeed been mentioned earlier in this thread but that also produces problems especially with the produce supplies quests. Credit to @MinMax Gamer for pointing this out. Here is their post showing the problem.

let's do some numbers. A single toolbox in my L32 WS can net more than 100K of supplies (21K base + 150% culture + 220% PoP with L6 PT), so with 5 WS I could be sitting on 500K supplies that can be used for any WS quest. So if benchmark for Constructs is L26 WS, then it stands to reason that similar calculation should be applied to quest requirements. So that would be slightly more than 60K, so that in Constructs the alternative to 5x toolbox quest should be asking for at least 300K, right? This means I can fulfil that quest requirements using only 3x of my toolboxes. Smaller WS quests can be easily done with 1, maybe 2. Considering lower frequency of the WS quests, it would be easy to skate through these just clipping toolboxes in high-level WS, and you can jack up culture and PoP bonus even more.

Unless, of course, the amount requirements are raised even higher, but that would defeat the purpose of making it easier for people with lower level WS - especially if they cannot stack up all the bonuses.

I really like the idea but with AWs and PoP spells the amounts would need to be huge and not all players have the AWs that increase the amouunt of supplies produced in WS or mountains of Pop spells. Maybe some of you guys know of a way to make it work as some of you are brilliant at number crunching.

 

[Pauly7]

instead of giving us quests that are time specific ( 15mins/3hrs/9hrs/24hrs etc) have quests that require us to make a certain amount of supplies and goods, ie produce 5,000 or 10,000, or 100,000 supplies; produce 500, 1000 or 10,000 or 50,000 goods (from any T1,T2,T3 manus)

We have this implemented in this event already. Admittedly it's only on a few quests that don't appear to often, but maybe that's a trial.