'A Gateway into the Past' new-format starts in Beta on July 7th

[Jackluyt]

News from Beta server: 'A Gateway into the Past' new format event runs from July 7th, until July 28th.
The Grand Prize will be a Dwarven Citadel building set. This event will also feature the Leagues system, as well as the Royal Prize Pass.

I will post full event details as always, once I have had a look at the new game dynamics on Thursday - this looks like something completely different for a change.

Read the Beta Forum Announcement here: https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/a-gateway-into-the-past.17828/

 

[Jackluyt]

The new event started in Beta Server and will presumably follow the next Fellowship Adventures in Live Worlds.

All the information you need, including Prizes, exclusives and the building set, is in this document: https://tinyurl.com/36ptuf4r
The file does not need any special program to open it.
You are welcome to share the link with friends and fellowship.
Note that the live version may not be exactly the same as the one we are recording in Beta.

 

[Sir Derf]

Okay, so let me see if I got this straight....

• Quests, e-mail, city pickups collect Currency (Chips)
• Eventually quests will be daily locked.
• 5 Currency (chips) -> Drawing from 1 of 3 cups
  • Graphics shows room for a fourth cup?
• Draw From a cup -> 1 Level 1 Game Piece
  • While there is a mostly 1-to-1 relationship between cups and game pieces
  • You aren't guaranteed to get the game piece you thought you were paying for when you choose a cup?
• 2-6 Level 1 Game Pieces -> Level 2-6 Game Pieces
  • Game pieces worth 5-30 chips/currency
• 3 Game Pieces -> 1 of 3 Chests (Trade Offers)
  • 3 Game Pieces = 15-90 Chips.
  • space for 3 offers at a time.
  • You can turn down an individual Offer/chest
  • At least some times, new offers will be time delayed? Is this only if you turn down an offer?
  • It sounds like, if you neither accept nor turn down an offer, that offer stays visible as one of your three offers... That is, it sounds like accepting or denying an offer ends up replacing only that offer, and not all three?
• Chest (Trade Offer) -> Triumph Gems, and varying percents towards prizes and Daily Prizes.
• 20 Triumph Gems -> Grand Prizes

So, at a rough level, this sounds like a typical currency-to-3-chest-to-Prizes event, with extra useless steps before paying for the chests. Importantly, there appears to be some monkey-business with the three chests/offers, that they just because you pick one of the three, you don't get to ignore the other two; they will stay around until you either eventually accept them or trach them.

So, with other games, like Little Lucky Fin, if I am presented with 3 Rings, and 1 of them is an option that I think is the worst, an option that I would never accept, I can ignore it, pick a better choice, and *poof*, that bad option is gone. However in this game, it seems like, if one of these offers is an option that I think is the worst, an option that I would never accept, I can't ignore t? It won't go away? I have to trash it, with what sounds like a time-delay repercussion?

 

[Jackluyt]

Trade Requests​

These are the ones I have so far.
I am presuming there will be nine, which appears to be the magic number for chests, hoops etc., in other events.
Each gives a different number of triumph gems to go towards winning the various prizes, and each gives different percentage possibilities of winning various prizes, including the Daily Exclusive

Which requests are best for Grand Prizes / League & Daily Exclusives?​

I am thinking this will be impossible to calculate, as there is a lot of luck involved in gaining the various components needed to finish the request.

 

[Sir Derf]

Thank you for the information, but this is only half of an offer. This is the offer "give", but what about the offer "get"? What were the combinations of game pieces being asked for in order to accept the offer? Were they consistent in terms of which Leveled Game Pieces they asked for, or were they consistent in the combined Game Piece Levels (and thus about the same cost in chips/currency), or something else?

Also, you said "there is a lot of luck involved in getting the various components needed to finish the request." I'm assuming this is referring to that weird wording about the three cups. Can we get some more details on this? Is there more uncertainty? Does combining Game Pieces for higher levels have some randomness in it as well?

Above both of these, I'm curious about the mechanics of the replacement of offers. It sounds like they don't all get replaced at the same time when you accept one, but rather get replaced on a single basis, when you either accept or trash it. Is this true? And what is the nature of the time-locking of new offers?

One more question - Is there a reroll option to swap out the original Daily Prize?

Edge of my seat for information to understand the new game. Thank you.

 

[Sir Derf]

Wait, there's something else in there...

What is a Lucky Draw?

I missed seeing tis when I read your tiny document, but it states "...and a fourth cup that is unlocked by Lucky Draw Cards from the trade offers." Well, a fourth cup... I noticed that, above. What is the nature of the fourth cup? This appears to be in place of what, in other events, would have been bonus currency, so I guess this fourth cup gives free Game Pieces. 1 Piece per Lucky Draw, or multiple? Level 1, or higher?

Ooops, read further, to the only other mention of Lucky Draw, and it can give Dwarven Chips (currency), Game Pieces (so second stage currency) or KP.

We need more information about Lucky Draw cups.

My Semi-Pointless Math Sense is tingling...

 

[Jackluyt]

Thank you for the information, but this is only half of an offer. This is the offer "give", but what about the offer "get"? What were the combinations of game pieces being asked for in order to accept the offer? Were they consistent in terms of which Leveled Game Pieces they asked for, or were they consistent in the combined Game Piece Levels (and thus about the same cost in chips/currency), or something else?

Also, you said "there is a lot of luck involved in getting the various components needed to finish the request." I'm assuming this is referring to that weird wording about the three cups. Can we get some more details on this? Is there more uncertainty? Does combining Game Pieces for higher levels have some randomness in it as well?

Above both of these, I'm curious about the mechanics of the replacement of offers. It sounds like they don't all get replaced at the same time when you accept one, but rather get replaced on a single basis, when you either accept or trash it. Is this true? And what is the nature of the time-locking of new offers?

One more question - Is there a reroll option to swap out the original Daily Prize?

Edge of my seat for information to understand the new game. Thank you.

I am still working on explanation of the mechanics - look again later today once I get back from my walk!
There is quite a lot of research and graphic development needed before I will be finished. There is sure to be an official video soon too.

1. You click on the cup; it costs 5 event currency. If you are lucky you get the one you need to complete the request; if not you may need to combine a lot of them to get the one you want. That is why cost is impossible to calculate, or so it would seem without a degree in statistics.
2. If you trash an offer, you wait for the next one. If you accept and complete it, the new one appears straight away. I only trashed one so far; replacement took 30 minutes
3. Yes there is a reroll that looks identical to the ones we had before

 

[Sir Derf]

Thank you. While I would love to have everything all at once, I understand it takes time, if just to put words to text, independent of actually learning and graphic fun...

Cups... So, the regular cups, which always cost 5 per pick, give out more than just Level 1 Game Pieces? So, after playing a while, I might have 2 Level 2 Dice, but one of them cost me 10 chips for 2 Level 1s that I combined into a level 2 while the other cost me 5 chips because I drew it fully formed? Or, to put it another way, if an offer is asking for 3 Level 6 Game Pieces, you might nominally consider this as being the equivalent of 18 Level 1 pieces, costing 90 chips, but since my actual cost might be less than 90, if some of it was built with Game Pieces that I luckily pulled at higher Levels?

Question - Do the cups state what the odds are for pulling higher-Level Game Pieces are?

Question - We can combine Game Pieces to make higher levels, yes? No cost Level addition, yes? 1+1=2, 4+2=6, yes?

 

[Jackluyt]

Thank you. While I would love to have everything all at once, I understand it takes time, if just to put words to text, independent of actually learning and graphic fun...

Cups... So, the regular cups, which always cost 5 per pick, give out more than just Level 1 Game Pieces? So, after playing a while, I might have 2 Level 2 Dice, but one of them cost me 10 chips for 2 Level 1s that I combined into a level 2 while the other cost me 5 chips because I drew it fully formed? Or, to put it another way, if an offer is asking for 3 Level 6 Game Pieces, you might nominally consider this as being the equivalent of 18 Level 1 pieces, costing 90 chips, but since my actual cost might be less than 90, if some of it was built with Game Pieces that I luckily pulled at higher Levels?

Question - Do the cups state what the odds are for pulling higher-Level Game Pieces are?

Question - We can combine Game Pieces to make higher levels, yes? No cost Level addition, yes? 1+1=2, 4+2=6, yes?

Quite correct.
1+1 takes you to the next level up.
The cups do have percentage probabilities; look in my notes in the Event Screen section; I posted them earlier today. Still adding things right now.

 

[Sir Derf]

I look, I read, you add, I don't think to reread an hour later...

it'll all get there eventually, I'll read it eventually


As I've said before... I'm not addicted, I can stop whenever I want...



I just don't want to right now.

 

[Sir Derf]

@Jackluyt minor wording suggestion...

A Re-roll feature is included that allows you to choose another Exclusive from the total list.
You can charge this feature using by acquiring Triumph Gems.
You can keep doing free re-rolls until hopefully you get the exclusive of your choice.
The re-roll does not cost you anything.

 

[Sir Derf]

Ahhh, thank you for the screenshot of the Cup odds tables. So, each cup exclusively gives one type of Game Piece (Figures, Tools, Dice), and each cup has an identical table of odds to give each type of level of it's type of Game Piece, from 38% chance of a Level 1 to 2% chance of a level 6.

Also, your document currently says you combine equal Level Game Pieces to level them up once. As in L1+L1 -> L2, L2+L2->L3. So, if making a Level 6 from Level 1s, you need a pyramid, 32 L1 -> 16 L2 -> 8 L3 -> 4 L4 -> 2 L5 -> 1 L6?

Okay... complicated, but we can still work out a theoretical chip-> Leveled Game Piece relationship. Cost*odds of getting a level 2 + Cost*odds of getting 2 Level 1, expand and repeat for the other 4 Levels... Might have to factor in overall inventory space...

My Semi-Pointless Math Sense is definitely tingling... in the middle of mowing a lawn, and I have an evening appointment, but this might induce a late-night number-noodling session...

 

[Sir Derf]

Also, while I have some thoughts on the matter, anyone else like to venture an opinion on the non-rotating-chest-i-ness decline-an-offer-and-wait change?

 

[Sir Derf]

Quick first pass attempt, let's see if the reasoning sounds correct...

1,000 chips = 200 picks from a cup.

76 Level 1
60 Level 2
30 Level 3
20 Level 4
10 Level 5
4 Level 6
------------
200 Game Pieces.

Level 1 Pieces obviously cost 5 chips each. What does a Level 2 piece cost?

Well, some of them cost 5 chips, you have no choice in that. And, some of them could cost 10 chips, because you combined two 5-chip Level 1 Pieces to make the Level 2 Piece. But, how do you judge what the ratio is?

I think it depends on the ratio that you want...

Let's ignore the ramifications of the time delays for trashing offers and the desirability to do quests on certain days if you have Daily Prize preferences... And the limitations of having a finite number of inventory slots for holding and combining Game Pieces... From an offer point of view, as opposed to rotating chests events were you are at the mercy of choosing the locally best choice from among the three chests presented at a time (which might or might not be the globally best choice, and could potentially be the lesser-of-three-evils 7th-best choice), it sounds like this event, you can decide exactly on which offer, or couple of offers you are exclusively only going to accept, and which offers you will never, ever have to settle for accepting because you have no other choices.

So, if you decide you only want to accept offers that require Level 4 and Level 5 Game Pieces of a type, then you are trying to find the most efficient way to use 76L1, 60 L2, 30 L3, 20 L4 and 10 L5 to make L4 and L5s.

Hmm, this sounds a little less definitively computable.

 

[Sir Derf]

Okay, I know you are doing your best on collecting and presenting information...

Generic question - it looks like all offers request one of each type of Game Piece; Figure, Tool and Die. Is this true?

Obvious question - what are the various request combinations? Is there one exclusive combination for each specific offer? Are there multiple but exclusive combinations for each specific offer, like in one screenshoot, it looks like there is an offer that wants a L5 Figure, L4 Tool and L6 Die, does this offer have six variants asks, for all six combinations of an L4, an L5 and a L6?

Deep question - suppose you don't want to ever accept an offer with an L6 Figure... is there a way to change an L6 Figure to a Tool or a Die, or break it apart in to 2 L5 Figures, or in desperation to throw away the L6 Figure so as to regain an inventory slot?

 

[Jackluyt]

Okay, I know you are doing your best on collecting and presenting information...

Generic question - it looks like all offers request one of each type of Game Piece; Figure, Tool and Die. Is this true?

Obvious question - what are the various request combinations? Is there one exclusive combination for each specific offer? Are there multiple but exclusive combinations for each specific offer, like in one screenshoot, it looks like there is an offer that wants a L5 Figure, L4 Tool and L6 Die, does this offer have six variants asks, for all six combinations of an L4, an L5 and a L6?

Deep question - suppose you don't want to ever accept an offer with an L6 Figure... is there a way to change an L6 Figure to a Tool or a Die, or break it apart in to 2 L5 Figures, or in desperation to throw away the L6 Figure so as to regain an inventory slot?

There is a discard box on the left of the screen.

 

[Sir Derf]

Let's try another approach... I don't know if this will be useful...

Spoiler: Semi-Pointless Math (tm)

500 chips = 100 picks
38 Level 1
30 Level 2
15 Level 3
10 Level 4
5 Level 5
2 Level 6
----------
100 Pieces

38 Level 1 Pieces costing 190 Chips, 190/38 = 5 Chips per Level 1 Piece.



38 Level 1 Pieces costing 190 Chips -> 19 Level 2 pieces
30 Level 2 Pieces costing 150 Chips

Total, 30+19 = 49 Level 2 Pieces costing 150+190 = 340 Chips, 340/49 = 6.93 Chips per Level 2 Piece.


36 Level 1 Pieces costing 180 Chips -> 18 Level 2 pieces
30 Level 2 Pieces costing 150 Chips + 18 Level 2 Pieces -> 24 Level 3 Pieces
15 Level 3 Pieces costing 75 Chips

Total, 39 Level 3 Pieces for 405 Chips = 10.38 Chips per Level 3 piece


32 Level 1 Pieces costing 160 Chips -> 16 Level 2 pieces
30 Level 2 Pieces costing 150 Chips + 16 Level 2 Pieces -> 23 Level 3 Pieces
15 Level 3 Pieces costing 75 Chips + 23 Level 3 Pieces -> 19 Level 4 Pieces
10 Level 4 Pieces costing 50 Chips

Total, 29 Level 4 Pieces for 435 Chips = 15.00 Chips per Level 4 Piece


24 Level 1 Pieces costing 120 Chips -> 12 Level 2 pieces
30 Level 2 Pieces costing 150 Chips + 12 Level 2 Pieces -> 21 Level 3 Pieces
15 Level 3 Pieces costing 75 Chips + 21 Level 3 Pieces -> 18 Level 4 Pieces
10 Level 4 Pieces costing 50 Chips + 18 Level 4 Pieces -> 14 Level 5 Pieces
5 Level 5 Pieces costing 25 Chips

Total, 19 Level 5 Pieces for 420 Chips = 22.11 Chips per Level 5 Piece


8 Level 1 Pieces costing 40 Chips -> 4 Level 2 pieces
30 Level 2 Pieces costing 150 Chips + 4 Level 2 Pieces -> 17 Level 3 Pieces
15 Level 3 Pieces costing 75 Chips + 17 Level 3 Pieces -> 16 Level 4 Pieces
10 Level 4 Pieces costing 50 Chips + 16 Level 4 Pieces -> 13 Level 5 Pieces
5 Level 5 Pieces costing 25 Chips + 13 Level 5 Pieces -> 9 Level 5 Pieces
2 Level 6 Pieces costing 10 Chips

Total, 11 Level 6 Pieces for 350 Chips = 31.82 Chips per Level 6 Piece

Level	Max Count/100 pick (Pieces/500 Chips)	Cost (Chips)	Cost/Piece (Chips/Piece)
1	38	190	5.00
2	49	340	6.93
3	39	405	10.38
4	29	435	15.00
5	19	420	22.11
6	11	350	31.82

 

[Sir Derf]

Assuming the above, the three captured Offer Requests in @Jackluyt 's document would cost...

Humble Request 10% Daily giving 1 Triumph Gem
Sage (L5, 22.11) + Smasher (L5, 22.11) + D12 (L5, 22.11) = 66.33

Humble Request 10% Daily giving 1 Triumph Gem
Knight (L3, 10.38) + Hammer (L3, 10.38) + D8 (L3, 10.38) = 31.14

Extraordinary Request including Rune Shards giving 4 Triumph Gems
Sage (L5, 22.11) + Mallet (L4, 15.00) + D20 (L6, 31.82) = 68.93



Incidentally, this shows not only that there are multiple Offer Recipes possible for the same Offer Rewards Matrix, as 2 of the 3 Offers appeared to be of the 10% Daily Humble Request, but the multiple offers can be of very different costs, as the first Offer Recipe was a trio of L5 Game Pieces, which I approximate at 66.33 Chips value, while the second Offer Recipe was a trio of L3 Game Pieces, which I approximate at 31.14 Chips value.


This game suddenly seems very, very different...

 

[Sir Derf]

@Jackluyt , re-reading your document to see if there are any new nuggets.

A couple of thoughts...

• Could you add a Currency Total at the end of your list of Quests?
• How about adding an assessment of best (most efficient per square) Daily with regards to at least Pop, Culture, Orc, Mana and Seeds? Typically, each Event has included a returning or new top-of-the-list efficient building in at least one of these categories. Manta Ray, Lava Egg and Tender Tag Team come to recent mind.
• Maybe also identify the largest building, for those who might prefer Dailies for Spell Fragment fodder.
• It happens so infrequently, but it might be worth making a special note when one of the incidental prizes is Pet Food. People seem to really like these, for some reason...
• Three cups... clicking on one appears to consume 5 Chips, not 1, yes?
• Not on you, but on INNO for consistency... usually, the bonus currency is the first item listed in the rewards... They seem to occasionally mix things up and place them randomly.
• Also on INNO - I wonder why not 3 of each type of offer? But no, 3 4s, 4 3s, 2 2s and 3 1s...
• And boy, INNO must be having a laugh at us... All 3 4s, and 2 of the 4 3s, all have 20% Daily chances?
• 12 Trade offers, not 9? Ohhhh, that might be too many for some people to follow.
• I'm sure you'll get to it eventually, but info on the odds table (or will it be tables?) for the Lucky Draw card is eagerly anticipated.
• When discussing Leagues, while I appreciate the warning about the Leagues being recalculated every hour, even that is really irrelevant. I would suggest either adding or replacing with some statement to the effect that the only ranking that matters is where you stand compared to all other players when the game finally ends. You've read the same posts I have, of players saying they were in the Silver League on day 10, why are they only getting Bronze League prizes at the end.

 

[Jackluyt]

@Jackluyt , re-reading your document to see if there are any new nuggets.

A couple of thoughts...

• Could you add a Currency Total at the end of your list of Quests?
• How about adding an assessment of best (most efficient per square) Daily with regards to at least Pop, Culture, Orc, Mana and Seeds? Typically, each Event has included a returning or new top-of-the-list efficient building in at least one of these categories. Manta Ray, Lava Egg and Tender Tag Team come to recent mind.
• Maybe also identify the largest building, for those who might prefer Dailies for Spell Fragment fodder.
• It happens so infrequently, but it might be worth making a special note when one of the incidental prizes is Pet Food. People seem to really like these, for some reason...
• Three cups... clicking on one appears to consume 5 Chips, not 1, yes?
• Not on you, but on INNO for consistency... usually, the bonus currency is the first item listed in the rewards... They seem to occasionally mix things up and place them randomly.
• Also on INNO - I wonder why not 3 of each type of offer? But no, 3 4s, 4 3s, 2 2s and 3 1s...
• And boy, INNO must be having a laugh at us... All 3 4s, and 2 of the 4 3s, all have 20% Daily chances?
• 12 Trade offers, not 9? Ohhhh, that might be too many for some people to follow.
• I'm sure you'll get to it eventually, but info on the odds table (or will it be tables?) for the Lucky Draw card is eagerly anticipated.
• When discussing Leagues, while I appreciate the warning about the Leagues being recalculated every hour, even that is really irrelevant. I would suggest either adding or replacing with some statement to the effect that the only ranking that matters is where you stand compared to all other players when the game finally ends. You've read the same posts I have, of players saying they were in the Silver League on day 10, why are they only getting Bronze League prizes at the end.

Thanks!
I will look at doing some of those things once we finish in Beta, for the benefit of the players in Live Worlds.