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11th Tournament Chest

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by BluebellBoo1, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. BluebellBoo1

    BluebellBoo1 Seeker

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Would love to see an 11th chest added to the tournament with potential diamond rewards :)
     
    Lelanya and nuttybanana like this.
  2. nuttybanana

    nuttybanana Seeker

    Joined:
    May 18, 2018
    100% agree Bluebell! :)
     
  3. DrRoboto

    DrRoboto Seeker

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2017
    I think we all would love to have more access to free diamond rewards! :cool:
    However, the likelihood of this happening is probably very low. While it would be a huge benefit those of us who are in Fellowships that don't get to 10 chests often, there are many FS out there who DO get 10 chests every week. This would tip the scales for free diamonds to those that can get into large-scale tournament fellowships, and leave those that can't get out in the rain so to speak. It would flood the market in free-diamonds which would take money away from Inno, which, as a business, they do not want.

    I think perhaps a potential change that could occur if they decided to change things up (although its doubtful, as they just added Royal Restoration spells to the tourney), would be to add more of like a "wild card" slot to the 10th chest, where it would have a random chance of anything, much like the Wishing Well, that has a low % for a small amount of diamonds as well.
     
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  4. Pauly7

    Pauly7 Illusionist

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    I very much doubt they are going to start handing out diamonds in tournaments.

    I'm actually fairly keen for them not to make the tournaments harder to succeed at, which is indirectly what you are asking for in creating an 11th chest. If they did it then one way or another you would probably end up with much the same rewards, but split into 11 with fellowships being asked to do even more to reach the goal.

    In our FS we can fairly comfortably reach 10 chests, but it is not the only thing that the game is about and I don't want to start asking even more of fellows, etc.
     
  5. RainbowElvira

    RainbowElvira Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Be careful, sometimes wishes do come true! Inno might be happy to rebalance the tournament rewards.
     
    BluebellBoo1 likes this.
  6. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Shaman

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    My personal opinion is that the tournaments are hard enough, and although I understand several top fellowships can work with players well and earn a blueprint and now also 5 RR spells weekly and can achieve much higher scores, getting diamonds also would be a bigger kick in the teeth for everyone else than the tournament already is.

    My fellowship is developing and we average 7 chests but get the occasional blueprint which is already worth the equivalent of 300 diamonds.
    Please don't make the game any more elitist than it already is otherwise how will Inno gain it's revenue if it keeps giving more and more freebies to the best Fellowships, so the lower players just quit and give up.
    I personally have forfeited blueprint rewards to stay and help new players develop in the game with no rewards from Inno, Maybe I should get free diamonds for that? :rolleyes:
     
    Alcaro, Timneh, Pauly7 and 1 other person like this.
  7. Silent Tempest

    Silent Tempest Seeker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Never mind free diamonds as a tournament chest reward, as I understand the reluctance to implement such a thing, given that this game is still a business. But I do agree there should be more chests, not just an 11th but also a 12th! The points needed for the 11th could be 9,000 and 10,000 for the 12th.

    This would not be to make tournaments harder or to rebalance the existing reward system but an extra bonus for those tournament-focused FSs that want to push further. By this I mean that the current reward system could stay exactly the same and the 11th and 12th chests could just be added on. The rewards for these needn't be particularly disproportionate either but a little extra something for some extra effort is always welcome.

    So, maybe the rewards shouldn't be for Blueprints or Royal Restorations, as I understand there is huge controversy over these items, but some extra MM spells and AW KPs wouldn't go amiss ;)
     
  8. Lelanya

    Lelanya Summoner

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Totally agree, and have been asking since the summer of 2017
     
  9. RainbowElvira

    RainbowElvira Soothsayer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    When you ask for an 11th chest, you're suggesting that reaching 10 chests is too easy (and I disagree). To me, the most logical thing to do would be to make it harder to reach the 10th chest - not to give additional rewards.

    I'm happy with the tournament as is, and I'm totally against an 11th chest. I'm sure that if the tourney rewards are rebalanced everyone will lose.
     
  10. Timneh

    Timneh Necromancer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Smaller FS or FS with lower ranking players already find it hard to get 10 chests so making more chests or getting 10 chests harder is just going to make those FS lose hope and maybe even push some players to quit the game. We already have far too many dead cities on the map and because of the rule that cities that have reached chapter 3 or had real money spent on them will never be removed a lot of those cities are there forever. I still think that those cities should be moved to the edge of the map to become an Elvenar ghost town area.
    I say leave the tournaments and chests as they are.
     
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  11. LazyTony

    LazyTony Scholar

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    When half of the class sitting an exam get an A, its time to change the grading structure. Personally, I don't mind if that is making each and every chest harder, or adding an 11th and/or 12th chest.
     
    nuttybanana likes this.
  12. Timneh

    Timneh Necromancer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Can someone please explain to me why some players get upset/annoyed because other players are getting the same as they are ? In a game like this it does not affect you if others are getting the same tourney rewards as you are unless maybe you are going for top ranking in the game (which is pointless in my opinion, but thats just my opinion). Am i missing something ?
    Wanting things to be made harder so not all players can get things is a bit spiteful. Would those same players still want the game making harder if they were smaller players ?
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  13. LazyTony

    LazyTony Scholar

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Well, the game is an awful lot easier now than it was when I began playing 2 years ago. You can't have goodie inflation forever, and there has been an awful lot of it lately. I know players who completed Constructs in 2 weeks, without spending a penny and only building half the recommended settlement because of the portal instants, specifically the day they were the daily prize in the last event (as well as all the other sources). So, in short, every player is getting it easier and easier at every level. I guess I just like things a little more challenging.

    A year ago, 3k was top 10 tourney finish. Last week 3232 points would have got you 100th place on my server. I'm not asking for things to get harder, just to stop getting easier so damn fast.
     
  14. Silent Tempest

    Silent Tempest Seeker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Asking for more than 10 chests isn't really about tournament ease or difficulty, it's about providing more challenge. Making it harder to reach the 10th chest would be a sure fire way to piss off the entire player base, so probably not the best fix ;)

    Tournaments are an interesting beast, in that they can be as "difficult" as you want to make them. Though, it is unusual to equate tournament difficulty to the number of chests your FS can obtain by the end. Difficulty is commonly associated with the potential loss of troops or goods in any particular tournament. Players can control this loss by limiting the number of provinces they play for that tournament but players generally agree that the Scrolls tournament is the hardest or, at least, one of the hardest ones due to the loss potential.

    In terms of the number of chests your FS can achieve during any tournament this is generally down to willingness rather than actual "difficulty". I have been in FSs that could very easily hit 10 chests every week but that wasn't the point of those FSs, i.e. they were created as a chill space for players that enjoyed the game but didn't want to partake in events too seriously, which is totally fine. If they hit 6 chests that was an achievement but it didn't really matter. So, if you're in a FS that doesn't hit 10 chests and there's no appetite to hit 10 chests but you, personally, want to hit 10 chests are you in the right FS?

    Hitting 10 chests is actually super easy. Before anyone kicks off allow me to explain. 10 chests is 40,000 points from the whole FS. Assuming a full FS of 25 members this would be, per member:
    - 6 provinces for 6 rounds. As this would require doing 2 rounds in 1 of the 5 days, which messes with bedtime, I gather not many people do 6 rounds. I could be wrong but it doesn't really matter.
    - 8 provinces for 5 rounds, which is very easily doable.
    - 11 provinces for 4 rounds, for those with time zone issues or real life responsibilities.

    Completing 6 or 8 provinces takes mere minutes and can usually be done with just auto-fight and a bit of negotiating. Past the 2nd round things can get a bit hairy after the 6th province, so may need some manual fighting or a larger goods base to accommodate the extra negotiating.

    Granted, for absolute newbies this isn't feasible but once they've done a bit of exploring and unlocked the first 6 units with a couple of unit upgrades to T2 this becomes crazy easy. An especially active newbie can be hitting 1600 points by the start of week 3. Less active ones will take a bit longer but what's the rush?

    We now come to strategy. If you're going to be a tournament-focused player the first thing you should do is stop taking those optional squad size upgrades. Technically, if you take them it's not the end of the world. The tournaments aren't technically more difficult from a proportionate troop loss perspective but the larger your squad the larger the NPC's squads will be, which means you'll lose more troops than if you had a smaller squad, which is what we mean by "difficult" in tournaments ;) But that's all the strategy I'm going to discuss as there are reams upon reams of information on tournament strategy by far more experienced players than I.

    So, back to the original point: we are asking for more chests to present more of a challenge. Will this scare away newbies? It's hard to understand why. If the newbies aren't going to be tournament-focused then it won't make a blind bit of difference to them. If they are going to be tournament-focused then surely it's just another challenge to rise to. First thing they need to do, as the rest of us have done, is grow to a size where they can make an impact on any tournament-focused FS, which isn't actually that large at all. Like I said, as soon as they have 8-11 of each province type plus a few T2 units they're ready. Then they need to be sure they're in a tournament-focused FS. I'm not even saying that you can only focus on one thing when playing this game. At the moment I'm in a FS that is technically tournament-focused but our AM so rarely cracks the whip that I can barely remember when that last was. Our FS is super chill and those that want to push it in tournaments do so and those that don't hit the minimum requirement and everyone's happy.

    #inb4 some special snowflake say, "There are many playing styles! You can't dictate how I play my game! I'm no sheep!" Whilst this is 100% true if conventions already exist to circumvent known problems why not use them? I'm not saying to use all said conventions but maybe one or two, surely? If unwilling I can tell you now that whining never solved any problem, which is something we should have learned as ickle chillun. Just saying :rolleyes:

    As is the case with any successful aged game there is a certain balancing act between accommodating newbies and accommodating seasoned players. Maintaining the status quo under the illusion of helping newbies simply alienates the veterans. Not to say that keeping veterans is more important than catering for newbies but Doctor Who learned the hard way that if you're going to piss off your dedicated fan base you are going to fall so very hard. So, the tournament system needs to keep advancing, for the same reason that more tech chapters are added every 6 months.

    In terms of dead cities: a lot of them, I imagine, are players creating 2nd or 3rd account but not getting the resource combination they were after, so start again, so they should disappear and be replaced soon after. Granted there will be those who progress past chapter 3 or bought some diamond who become inactive and I totally agree that they should be exiled to the frigid outer rings of the map until they become active again.
     
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  15. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Scholar

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    I agree, but assuming you consider 10 chests an "A" we're not exactly at 50% hitting that mark, are we? I mean maybe closer to 5%?
    That is actually the hard part. On most servers there are maybe a few hundred players willing to log in often enough to do the tournament 4-5 days in a row, so getting 25 all together in one FS is a very difficult process. I have two 10 chests FS on US servers and rarely are they full. Look at your FS in the 36 weeks since you joined there have been 18 players who needed to be replaced. Clearly finding and keeping a full roster for more than a week is difficult even for a top 10 FS.

    I think you might only be looking at how easy it is to get 1600 points and just join a FS-- try being an AM;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
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  16. Timneh

    Timneh Necromancer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    @LazyTony Please don't think my comment was aimed at you, it wasn't nor was it just about tournaments. I have seen on a few threads where players are saying the game is too easy and i was just asking in general.
    @Silent Tempest I know that cities that have not been logged into for 30 days should get removed (if they are below chapter 3 or not had money spent on them) but there are quite a few in my neighbourhood that have only the MH, BH and 1 or 2 residences and workshops and been like that for 6 weeks or more and i can't believe that they have had money spent on them. The amount of progress made in these cities could have been done in 5 minutes.
     
  17. Silent Tempest

    Silent Tempest Seeker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Good shout but whenever we lost a player a new one was always waiting in the wings and even if we did enter a tournament with only 23 or 24 players the shortfall created by the player-loss was already being filled. Our FS hits the 40,000 points requirement by Thursday or Friday, so by Saturday we are smashing it, which is why we want more chests ;)

    After all, we're talking about FSs that want to hit 10 chests each week. In such FSs there will be a handful or more of dedicated tournament players who will obliterate the average points per member requirement every single time, which should make up for any unforeseen shortfalls. And if that isn't the case that FS's player base is clearly cripplingly unstable, which would point to underlying issues, or "tournament-focused" is being used very loosely in their FS description, which is totally fine. Tournaments are there for people who want them, there is no requirement to engage nor is there a requirement to hit 10 chests.

    If there is a will to hit 10 chests why not give those FSs the ability to go further?
     
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  18. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Scholar

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Seriously, I get what you are saying, but I think you are only be looking at how easy it is to get 1600 points and just join a FS-- try being an AM of a FS that isn't in the top 10 ranking.
    It's great that your top 10 FS always had someone waiting to join, but fellowships outside the top don't.
    Imagine they add an 11th chest:
    How much harder will it become for a top 30-50 FS that gets 10 chests to recruit when players can join an 11 chest FS instead?

    That is the issue with making the very top even more rewarding.

    I'm not saying that they don't need to add more to the game to keep it interesting for the 1%, I'm bored AF in the game much of the time, but I don't think an 11th chest is the answer.
     
  19. LazyTony

    LazyTony Scholar

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Last week on EN2, 27 FSes got 10 chests. That's 675 players.

    Like I said originally, I don't mind if that is adjusting scores to get the current 10 chests, or adding an 11th chest. My FS has got 10 chests for 80 weeks in a row, I just want a little more challenge :(
     
  20. m4rt1n

    m4rt1n Shaman

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2017
    Maybe a solution would be to add fellowship ranking points to the top 30 or so fellowships in the tournament each week rather than upsetting half the players by making the 10 chests more difficult to achieve.
     
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