11th Tournament Chest

[Deleted User - 341074]

Last week on EN2, 27 FSes got 10 chests. That's 675 players.

1. Let's not use steel as the norm, I got 6,800 last week too
2. EN and Euro servers are totally different than NA ones since they can easily do 6 rounds. (in NA 16h after it starts is after midnight)

I just want a little more challenge

3. You are literally the #1 tournament player on your server in the #1 tournament FS. Try not being in a top FS, lots of challenge that way.

 

[m4rt1n]

Try motivating in my FS, I scored over 10k in the last 2 steel tourneys, and they are the only 2 blueprints my FS has achieved so far.

So easy for the few, but if the few continue to get more free, the masses will stop playing, and hence paying for the game we all enjoy so ending investment in changes and new features.

The tournament is hard enough now for 99% of fellowships to achieve 1 or 2 blueprints a year maybe, so I say enjoy the rewards you are all getting for free already.

If the game is too easy for you, leave your fellowship and go start your own to help new players develop and achieve in the game, then you may get more satisfaction and a great sense of achievement.

 

[LazyTony]

The week before, Marble, it was 20 FSes, 500 players.

Martin, it sounds like you are with a lazy bunch of players. Need a home on EN2?

I quite like Martins idea of FS ranking points for top 10, 50 100, whatever FSes. That would add a little more competition without giving away a load more freebies.

 

[LazyTony]

EN and Euro servers are totally different than NA ones since they can easily do 6 rounds. (in NA 16h after it starts is after midnight)

Assuming you sleep 8 hours a night, and get up and go to bed at approx the same time every day, the only way to do 6 rounds is to have one night of shorter sleep, even in GMT-ish time zones. 5 days, 6 rounds. You need to get a round done early as possible one of the 5 days, and stay up a little later that night. Do NA players have to do more than 1 night?

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

The week before, Marble, it was 20 FSes, 500 players.

And dust was 14 and scrolls 15
That's barely half as many as steel.
How many players on EN2 have a tournament score higher than zero right now?( I can't check)

I quite like Martins idea of FS ranking points for top 10, 50 100, whatever FSes. That would add a little more competition without giving away a load more freebies.

I'm all for it, give them 1000s of points.

 

[LazyTony]

4086 players higher than zero. 3738 have done more than 1 province in 3 rounds so far (more than 30 points). Elven stats is messed up for gems tourney, but that will be higher than marble. 15-20 FSes per week getting 10 chests, 375-500 players, out of 3500-4000 who are putting in the slightest bit of effort.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

@LazyTony
Hang on a sec...you say you want more challenge and yet you have 486 AW levels...care to explain how you got that?
272,297 KP in your wonders
If you've been playing for 2 years as you said earlier, then that means ignoring all of the KP you spent in the tech tree, you got 2,700 KP every week?
Every week for the whole 2 years?
That seems unnaturally high...

135 from FS
168 hourly
505 tournament (50 provinces 5x each because, why not?)
----
808 KP per week (assuming 10K tournament score average since day 1)

Soooo have you been buying 270 KP every day for 2 years?
That's super impressive... What'd that cost? 8,500,000 Diamonds? On a 100% sale that's around $40,000.

or did you buy them with goods? That'd be about 80 Billion of each T1, T2, and T3, but you make under 500K of each per day, so that would take over 500 years at your current production So that's not it.
Perhaps you bought them all with coins?

8,930,297,250,000 That's just under 9 Trillion! Super impressive.
That would be from visiting your 25 million neighbors every day for 1,000 years?

I must be missing something because I'm sure you didn't use push accounts to give yourself over 200,000 extra KP and then come on the forums and say that the game is too easy.
Tell me that's not it.

 

[LazyTony]

Thanks for giving me 4k extra KP. I have been playing since just before the winter 2016 event, November/December 2016.

Current KP gold cost - 13123k. 26246 KP.
Current t3 cost - 61330. 6133 KP
Current t2 cost - 83960 4198 KP
current t1 cost - 135960 3399 KP

Weekly KP - 168 hourly.
- 135 FS rewards
- 475 won from tourney.

130 weeks x 778KP = 101140 KP

4/5 big events per year. 200-300 KP each, lets say 12 events @ 250 = 3k KP.

World map, 524 provs, x 8 = 4192.

Sundry KP (quests, expiring buildings etc). Just a wild guess here - 500?

Total KP = 148808

I get 3 or 4 KP back for each 1 put into swap threads, and this is recursive. 148808 + 42516 + 12147 + 3470 + 991 + 283 + 80 = 208295.

I have 268767 KP in AW.. I know I bought some techs with diamonds, early game before I knew better, and a lot of the above is very rough guesswork. Events for example, I think 250 KP is underestimate in hindsight. I get a lot of KP investment from neighbours in wonders (I maintain good relationships with them, visit frequently, the little guys mail me for trades if they need something in a hurry etc). One kind guy asked me to lay off so he could win the tourney about 6 weeks ago. He ended up 2nd, I ended up 3rd, but he still gave me 200 KP as a thank you (kind man!). I had 2 or 3 players from outside my FS who would add 100, 150 KP into my pyramid shortly after Elementals ended, chasing runes. This stuff adds up.

I've spent a lot of time in hospital in the last year. Those places are pretty boring. Only so much Netflix a guy can watch.

Anyway, this isn't about me. I know I am an outlier, I have spent waaay too much time (and a reasonable amount of money) on this game. However, even in my best weeks I only get a quarter of the score needed for 10 chests. It takes an FS to win 10 chests, and a dedicated one to do it regularly. But, the fact is, a year ago maybe 1 or 2 FSes achieved this goal a week. Now its 20. It will continue to get higher as constructs adds 2 powerful new tourney wonders, free extra troops and reduced cooldown times so more folks will squeeze in 6 rounds. This event we will get an evolving building that will be more powerful than the appropriate damage boosting wonder at level 30. This time next year, 50 FSes will be getting 10 chests. It can't be right that the highest goal available can be achieved by so many so often.

Soooo. Make it harder, stop making it easier, or add an 11th chest, Some combination of the 3. I guess I just want the magic back, getting 10 chests used to be exciting Now I don't even notice when we cross the line on Thursday or Friday.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

- 475 won from tourney.

How? I mean I know 475 is possible but as an average? From chapter 1 till now?
To get 400 KP you need at least 40 provinces of each kind unlocked which is 360 total provinces... That's gotta take some time even scouting 24/7.
Even now, the last year looks like you averaged around 7K, and I can't find a combination that gives 7K tournament points and 475 KP. Which doesn't account for the fact that you must have started out getting far less in the first few chapters and need more than 475 to bring that average back up.
You said 524 provinces cleared, so around 60 of each type
60x2 stars = 3960 points, so just 3K more points to go and you're 227 KP short
So you push out to star #5 on provinces 1-41 to get 476 total KP. Perfect. Except you now have 9,200 Tournament points. Which is a solid 2K more than you've done most weeks. Something's not right.

Here's the saddest part though. Even if you somehow explain your seemingly unlikely KP, there is no viable fix for you by making the 10 chests harder.
Option 1
Raise the 10th Chest to 50K, a 25% increase.
Result: almost every other FS would have failed to get 10 chests the last 9 weeks. Maybe some would have tried harder and done more, but likely not all of them could.
Worse, your FS routinely gets 50K, so we didn't actually add any challenge for you.
Fail.

Option 2
Raise 10th chest to 60K a 50% hike
Result: You get the challenge you want and we go from 300-500 players getting a blueprint to 25 or 50. 75 tops.
Fail.

Option 3
55K? a slight challenge for you and an insurmountable one for almost everyone else?
Yay? Back down to 1% getting blueprints instead of 10%(which is somehow terrible?)

Oh and another thing: Even your uber FS has only half of its players doing their share.

For most of the last 52 weeks if you replaced your top 4 players with 1600 point players your FS would not have gotten a blueprint just to give you an idea what the reality is like for 90% of players.

 

[LazyTony]

Recalculated my numbers slightly, I have been playing more weeks. Provs 1-9 to round 6 give 72 KP. 11KP for each prov after that to round 5. 36 extra provs for 475. 45 provs total. 9 at 6 rounds = 1620. 36 at 5 rounds = 7560. 9180 points. Alternatively, provs 1-9, 6 rounds, 72KP, 24 provs to round 5, 264KP, 27 to round 2, 135KP. Thats (9*270) + (24*210) + (30*66) = 9470. My tourney average according to Elven stats is 8918. I guess I overestimated a little, but only a little. Been out of hospital for a few months, tourney scores are down, RL etc
Can we do less maths now please?

Its not an uber FS, if you look back we finish 1st-8th the last 8 weeks. We have had an unusually high member turnover this month - 5 players. Those scores you are looking at include 3 players who weren't even in the FS during the steel tourney last week. Our minimum is 1k points a week, only excuse is holiday or urgent RL stuff. That minimum hasn't changed for 18 months, even though getting it has become considerably easier in the last 18 months. Thats because it doesn't need to change - its enough for us to have got 10 chests every week I have been in the FS without fail.

I get that raising the requirements for the same rewards will get a lot of backs up. So ok, add an 11th chest. And don't create 2 super powerful tourney wonders in the same chapter, along with a super powerful event prize that everyone will get because you win it in the first few quests of the event. I'll be getting all those goodies too, I'm not complaining because I will be at a disadvantage. I'm complaining because we are on track for 50% of players getting the top prize every week in a years time.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

My tourney average according to Elven stats is 8918.

Nope, that's the last few weeks only.

I guess I overestimated a little, but only a little.

Your actual average for the weeks showing is 6761 A full 2100 points off, that's more than "only a little."

Also, I'm pretty sure you got way less KP in chapter 1-7 since the max provinces is 222 before you make orcs.
That's 24 of each province for a MAX of 219 KP, and that is assuming you scouted and cleared 222 provinces on the first week that you played.

So how long were you in chapters 1-7? How you gonna make up for that? If you had gotten a consistent 800+ KP the past year I'd believe your all-time average of 475, but clearly, that's way off. I'd be very surprised if your actual all-time average was over 300.

Its not an uber FS, if you look back we finish 1st-8th the last 8 weeks.

So...What would a FS have to do to be considered an Uber FS to you? Get 70K points each week?

3 players who weren't even in the FS .....Our minimum is 1k points a week, .... That minimum hasn't changed for 18 months,... Thats because it doesn't need to change - its enough for us to have got 10 chests every week

Don't you see how abnormal this is? You have no problem getting 10 chests even if you are down a few players and if only 11 players make over 1600 points?
Normal fellowships do not have 5 players pulling down 25K points.
Your top 5 guys in a tournament would be an 8 chest FS by themselves. That is not normal.

don't create 2 super powerful tourney wonders in the same chapter, along with a super powerful event prize that everyone will get because you win it in the first few quests of the event.

1. Very few players are finished chapter 14, and it will be a long time before that's no longer true.
2. Not everyone will get the firechicken up to a decent level, especially newer players.

I'm complaining because we are on track for 50% of players getting the top prize every week in a years time.

Again, you have no idea how hard it is to create and maintain a 10 chest FS. Why do you think each server only has a dozen or so?
Even if the new content makes the tournament 25% easier(which it won't), the equivalent of 30K points now, then only 30 teams would have reached 10 chests last week, and that was during the easiest tournament week!
So steel would be 30 teams instead of 27
and Scrolls would be 20 instead of 14

I think 50% of FS getting a BP is a little bit more than a year away.

 

[Timneh]

I'm complaining because we are on track for 50% of players getting the top prize every week in a years time.

So what ? Why does that seem to matter so much to you ? This is a city building game not a game that is all about tournaments. Other FS getting 10 chests every week if they want to will not stop you developing your city the way you want to. Other players getting the same things you are getting does not take away any of the things you get. You are coming across a little bit like you are resentful of other players being able to do what you can do.

Have you considered that tournaments like the rest of the game are the way they are for a reason ? The devs don't tell us why things are the way they are but it has been said before that some things will damage the delicate balance of the game. I am not a game developer so i have no idea if more chests or making tournaments harder could cause problems . It has also been said before that the devs have plans for the game for a few years into the future (can't remember where i read that or if it was on one of the live Q&A sessions) so making things a little harder could possibly be part of the future plans.

For all the players that find the game too easy the solution is simple.....find a more challenging game. End of problem

 

[Lelanya]

Hey! You all know I'm going to weigh in if you start talking trash about my baby (Boudicca's Iceni) here!! As for why some of us are hitting minimum targets instead if the share score, that's our business, not yours. We all can do it.

Secondly, show some respect, man. This IS the original 10 chest FS, so of course we can score an extra chest, perhaps even two. And we would welcome the opportunity to do just that. I am one of Tony's donors, he's a lead player and I snag runes for new Wonders from him, as do many in our FS!

We are not advising that Inno take anything away from the existing system we are saying, add to it. An 'elite' level would suit us fine

 

[DeletedUser6935]

So what ? Why does that seem to matter so much to you ? This is a city building game not a game that is all about tournaments. Other FS getting 10 chests every week if they want to will not stop you developing your city the way you want to. Other players getting the same things you are getting does not take away any of the things you get. You are coming across a little bit like you are resentful of other players being able to do what you can do.

It matters because a game has to be kept interesting to retain its player base. That player base is as much made of newbies as it is seasoned players. But, as explained previously, no company can alienate their core customers (seasoned players) and be better for it. There is absolutely no good business sense in doing that.

You make an excellent point: this is a city building game and tournaments are only a secondary event...so why does it matter so much to you if there were more than 10 chests? It'll scare away newbies? All games are based upon some challenge or other. Are you suggesting that applying more challenge layers, i.e. additional chests, which doesn't actually affect the difficulty of the previous challenge, i.e. 10 chests, will cause people to run away from it rather than rise to it? From what exactly do you draw enjoyment in a game?

Your last comment in that quoted paragraph is just petty, which I felt gave me licence to pick your post to pieces. Inferred: yes, I was being petty too It's not particularly helpful, is it?

For all the players that find the game too easy the solution is simple.....find a more challenging game. End of problem

This is such an awful conclusion to draw when other people request change. Do the developers not often ask for ideas on how to improve the game? Presumably, this is why they felt the need to create an "Ideas and Suggestions" sub-forum. I mean, I could be wrong, but it's kinda there in the name. Did telling kiddies to "get lost" in the playground ever really work?

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

that's our business, not yours.

Nonsense. The #1 tournament player has said that

• "every player is getting it easier and easier at every level. I guess I just like things a little more challenging."
• "A year ago, 3k was top 10 tourney finish. Last week 3232 points would have got you 100th place on my server. I'm not asking for things to get harder, just to stop getting easier so damn fast."

Obviously, we are going to look at his team as an example to see if the tournament really is just too damn easy. So? if it is, why does only half of your team get 1600+?
The simple answer is that it's not that easy and part of your success involves a handful of hardcore players carrying the team.

I am one of Tony's donors, he's a lead player and I snag runes for new Wonders from him, as do many in our FS!

Finally, the truth, thank you.

We are not advising that Inno take anything away from the existing system we are saying, add to it. An 'elite' level would suit us fine

Big surprise, the #1 FS wants something added to the game that rewards the #1 FS. Still, let's roll with it for the moment:

Here's the thing about the 11th chest:
If it has real rewards, then you are just moving the goal posts and all of the FS who worked really hard to be a max reward FS will suddenly come up short and introduce another wave of FS turmoil. (see more below in answer to Silent Tempest)

If it just has ranking points as a reward then it comes with its own list of issues:

• Will it eventually be no contest? Oldest FS wins?
• What about turn-over? Do the ranking points always stay with the AM?
• Most importantly, would ranking points be enough for you to be happy?
• You are over 2 million points short of first place...how many points per 11th chest would be both fair and meaningful?

why does it matter so much to you if there were more than 10 chests?...... Are you suggesting that applying more challenge layers, i.e. additional chests, which doesn't actually affect the difficulty of the previous challenge, i.e. 10 chests, will cause people to run away from it rather than rise to it?

But adding a 11th chest actually will make the 10th chest harder and here's why:

My FS just like @LazyTony 's FS has a mix of players. This is a good thing and imo the best way to enjoy the game- some teaching, some learning, growth, and progress. However, some of the group want the 10th chest more than others and are a little more hardcore than others. That's normal. The trick is in getting enough "hardcore" to cover the underachieving players, then everyone is happy. Add in an 11th chest that has a meaningful prize and the alliance starts to crack.

E.G.
If there was a second blueprint in that 11th chest what would I tell my 3K member?
"Sorry, we just aren't an 11 chest group we told recruits that the minimum was ____ maybe, perhaps someday we'll get there? "

Or do I tell my 1K players "Shape up or ship out, the new min score is _____ you have x weeks to comply or I will kick you. Yes, I know we said the minimum score was _____ when we recruited you and you said that's the max you can do with your schedule and we've become friends, but sorry"

Either way, there's a solid chance that many fellowships would lose players and probably miss quite a few 10th chests for at least a while until the dust settles and some 11 chest FS form while the rest fade away. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

 

[DeletedUser6935]

@SoggyShorts
Solid points and I suppose I can only draw on my somewhat blinkered experience with the game, as such:

My "starter" fellowship was super chill. As stated previously there was no pressure to participate in any FS events other than the barest of minimums. In tournaments as long as you were on the scoreboard it was all good. In FAs as long as a couple of items were contributed to each stage there was no drama. This was the expectation set. Personally, I wanted more, so tried nudging for more chests in tournaments and, fair play to them, they humoured me but we never hit 10 chests.

So, I looked for a more tournament-focused FS, which is how I ended up in my current one. FYI, it wasn't always a top 10 FS. When I joined I think it was 15th/16th. A couple of weeks ago we rose to 8th, then dropped to 9th and finally stagnated at 10th again. Some serious slacking going on there, clearly

From memory, it was never advertised as a tournament-focused FS, just that players be active. I determined their tournament-ability from their stats on ElvenStats where their tournament average was 9 chests. They occasionally got 10 chests and I was happy with that, so applied and joined. Like my first FS this one has also been super chill but there is a greater expectation to participate in FS events. The unspoken rule is 1000 points in tournaments and a "decent" contribution in FAs, if we're competing, which is infrequent.

Slowly we reached the stage where we were hitting 10 chests every week. It didn't happen overnight and no one broke the bank trying to get there. When we consistently hit 10 chests we even implemented a "1 week off" rule in the 9-week cycle, where we would take it easy. This was, of course, during the Scrolls tournament. However, the 2 times we got around to Scrolls again we got so close to hitting 10 chests each time that we just scrapped the idea of having a week off. We had naturally reached 10 chests, so holding back for the sake of holding back was what became unnatural.

Going to your specific examples of what to tell players there's nothing wrong with not being a "top chest" FS. Many FSs aren't, usually out of choice rather than for lack of trying, as not every player is into tournaments. In my FS you've got the hardcore players, who will get consistent high scores, those players who will sometimes push hard and then you've got those who bob around the minimum mark. From memory, our AM has never had to sack anyone for low tournament scores, it was usually the case of gross overall inactivity that led to expulsion. So, yeah, aim for 10 and then when your FS (by this I mean anyones' FS) is ready to hit 11 occasionally do so until hitting 11 consistently comes naturally. I agree, if you push too hard you're going to lose members.

No one's expecting small score players to hit 1600 tournament points, or even 1000 tournament points, every week If you advertise as wanting active players or tournament-focused players, then, sure, you're gonna have to crack the whip with people who are taking the piss. No need to set a solid time limit, providing there is some advancement in ranking and tournament points each week that player is obviously heading in the right direction. If you advertise your FS as being a chill zone then who cares how well you do in tournaments?

I mean, let's just use my progress as an example for a minute I started around 31 March 2018 and, naturally, my tournament scores were pitiful to begin with. However, since 21 April 2018 (3 weeks later) I started hitting 1600+ tournament points every week. I would ask that you ignore my current and somewhat exaggerated manufactory production lines, as that is only a recent development. Just pointing out that people that want to do well in tournaments find a way and part of that is looking for the right FS. So, if you have members that don't fit the model of the FS you (or any other AM) has created, then why wouldn't you sack them and find the right fit? Be this model for tournaments, FAs or stand up comedy

 

[LazyTony]

@SoggyShorts @Timneh You guys are both consistently missing my point. I don't think 20% of players getting the top prize is so far out of whack. IMO its about right. Its rare enough to be worked for and won with a sense of satisfaction, but not exclusive.This is obviously a balance. If it was right for 50 players to get 10 chests each week a year ago, then its wrong for 500 to get it now, and vice versa. It's the direction of travel that concerns me. As previously mentioned, the new goodies will make things easier, as will players' increasing knowledge, skill, and wonder level accumulation. Soggy, you mocked the idea everyone should get the top prize for participation in events, but seem very defensive about tourneys. I guess this is because of the previous experience you mention at your personal upheaval when getting 10 chests became more common. I didn't have any upheaval, nor did the OP. Its not a universal experience.If there is a right balance, then making things constantly easier is breaking that balance. So, do you think there is a right balance? If so, is it currently too hard, too easy or just right?

 

[Timneh]

If it was right for 50 players to get 10 chests each week a year ago, then its wrong for 500 to get it now

Not really when you think about it. A year ago there would have been xxx players at a high enough level to get to 10 chests every week, now a year later how many more players could have advanced far enough to also get 10 chests ? It's just natural progression.
Lets say that the devs do make 11 or even 12 chests in tourneys and that makes it so only 50 players can do the extra chests so it is back to the way it was a year ago, in time more and more players will advance far enough to also get those extra chests. When that happens are you then going to ask for 13, 14 or even 15 chests in tourneys and if so where will it end ?

Your last comment in that quoted paragraph is just petty, which I felt gave me licence to pick your post to pieces

No it wasn't. Obviously the game as it is now is not challenging enough for you so the easiest solution is to find a more challenging game instead of trying to change the game you are currently in, there are loads of games out there that would be more of a challenge than thie one.

Just for the record i don't really care if they add more chests (although i am against it). I find tournaments more annoying than anything and that is why i do very little in them. I just don't understand why some players want some things to be where only a small number of players can achieve them (that's the way it appears to me). Is it just for bragging rights ? If it is then i'm sorry but i think that is just so so sad, after all this is just a game at the end of the day.

 

[LazyTony]

I just don't understand why some players why some players want some things to be where only a small number of players can achieve them

Because doing the same thing over and over again, for 70 straight weeks without ever having to try gets boring.

You're arguing hard about a part of the game, that, in your own words, you don't care about. Ask Soggy how much he cares about tourneys. When you are at the end of the tech tree, there are 2 new chapters a year to amuse you for 3 or 4 months. The other 8 months there are tourneys. For endgame players, tourneys ARE the game.

I've ignored your taunts 3 times now. So, let's turn the tables. What is it about some players, something I just can't understand, that they will prevent a change that doesn't effect them, just because someone else will enjoy it? See, it's fun characterising others negatively.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

So, if you have members that don't fit the model of the FS you (or any other AM) has created, then why wouldn't you sack them and find the right fit?

Right, but my issue is that our model is based on 40,000 points being the ultimate tournament goal and a plateau that doesn't need to be raised.
Our players have reached a comfort level with their productions and are able to maintain a steady score, so now they can shift focus towards guest races, city beautification, being AFK, whatever.

Spoiler: Thank you for sharing your experience, it was quite interesting, I'll share a little of mine here:

You started playing after FS tournaments were already a thing and (luckily) missed out on "The Great Shift". *
You see, the tournament rewards used to be based on how many times you and your neighbors completed the same spot. Needless to say, that part was ignored by pretty much everyone since player movement hadn't even been invented yet and the chances of even sharing a spot with another active tournament player were minuscule.
So the focus for fellowships was simple: Balanced goods for trading and x visits per week for buffs and whatever level of social interaction they enjoyed.
(The odd FS was proud to be a group of big spenders so ranking mattered to them, but no FAs or FS tournaments meaning it didn't really help them to accomplish anything....yet)

Then suddenly there was a huge benefit to grouping up with "powerful" players. That tiny city in your FS who shunned all military and only built their city to be pretty? They used to be the perfect member because they did 7 visits without fail and were a delight in chat. Now? Now they are costing you KP every week in rewards! Not just you, but the other 23 members as well!

But zero Elvenar players signed up to be in a tournament FS, so how do you change the rules? What's fair?

Perhaps there was a better way, but we had a vote, and it went about 9-10 with a half-dozen who abstained. So we let it sit to see how it went. Being gracious players we encouraged everyone to get at least 30 points so that the rewards weren't wasted (we're a team/friends after all, right?) No surprise though, eventually, the gap started to widen where some players were getting more and more points while the "30's" continued to benefit without any real contribution. Eventually, this reached a tipping point and we had another vote.

This time it came down 19-6 in favor of a 300 point minimum and we went with it. A couple of the "no's" stuck around to try and tough it out, but the rest moved on.
It was not a day of celebration.
A few months passed and we lost/gained members because we pushed too hard for some and not hard enough for others (it is absolutely impossible to please everyone) Then we had another vote and went to 600 and repeated the whole process. We've been at 600 ever since, but it took a full year to become a 10 chest FS.
Many Fellowships had very similar experiences. Often there would be posts on the forums discussing how best to motivate players, change rules, and when to be a hard-ass. Several of us had a private chat going on the same subject too.

Of course, not all fellowships suffered from the change. Some even benefited almost immediately.

I don't know about EN2, but the first fellowships who quickly become permanent 10-chesters in NA were those big spending rankers groups I mentioned above. They didn't have a big shift, they were already a group of rather powerful players who could much more easily change gears than others. Players who were in such a group or who quickly joined one have a totally different perspective than the 99%.

*Note: Literally zero people called it "the great shift" I just thought it sounded dramatic.

If it was right for 50 players to get 10 chests each week a year ago, then its wrong for 500 to get it now....So, do you think there is a right balance? If so, is it currently too hard, too easy or just right

Soggy, you mocked the idea everyone should get the top prize for participation in events, but seem very defensive about tourneys. I guess this is because of the previous experience you mention at your personal upheaval when getting 10 chests became more common.

First of all, you misrepresent my position which is exactly the same on both subjects:
I don't care if 100% of players get [the reward], so long as they have to work for it. There should be a challenge with rewards that are worthy of it.

Again, using how many players accomplish something is a bad way to measure difficulty. If marathon runners were all rewarded a million dollars you'd see a huge increase in how many people run marathons. It would in no way indicate that marathons got easier.

The biggest shifts in the tournament have been caused by:

• The Tournament FS reward rebalancing, almost doubling the KP rewards
• Divine seeds production relying on AW levels
• Promises and now executions of Blueprint usage for F2P and RR spells

These are all motivating factors and not decreases in the difficulty of tournaments.

I believe that the tournament is currently well balanced if perhaps a little on the hard side. If far more players use the FirePhoenix and use it more effectively than I think will or the rewards for tournaments get a buff changing the difficulty or motivation of players, then I'll revisit my opinion.