Simple economics:
ANY trade is 'fair' if both parties are satisfied with the deal being made. Works that way in real world as well as here.
True, my idea of a fair trade may not be the same as another's, but does that make one of us right and the other wrong? I think not, it merely means we'll likely trade with dif groups, and that actually improves the market by making it wider. Indeed, there will be those of a differing opinion yet again, whose trade circle overlaps both the groups.
Simple economics:
ANY trade is 'fair' if both parties are satisfied with the deal being made. Works that way in real world as well as here.
True, my idea of a fair trade may not be the same as another's, but does that make one of us right and the other wrong? I think not, it merely means we'll likely trade with dif groups, and that actually improves the market by making it wider. Indeed, there will be those of a differing opinion yet again, whose trade circle overlaps both the groups.
exactly. that's why its kind of annoying when someone has to constantly complain in the chat about two people who agree on a trade, or someone who accepts someone elses "unfair" trades without an agreement. It's got nothing to do with them and affects their gameplay in no way at all. It's kinda like two people in a relationship that's legal but morally isn't accepted by everyone...its got literally nothing to do with the people poking their noses in.
you could have just told me how to do it instead of carrying off from being rude like in your last replies to me on another post and having a general tone of thinking youre better than everyone else. I'm just going to ignore you tbh. you don't know how to have a debate normally without lowering the tone to taking digs at people
There's an edit button under every post you make. The "+quote" button on the right side below posts let's you add them to multi-quote, which you can then add by clicking the "Insert Quotes" button.
The rest of your post is just full of Ad Hominems again, which you could and should learn to do without. You could have just said; "I don't know how, so could you explain it", but instead you decide to go on the full offensive and make this odd attempt at attacking/trolling/flamebaiting.
I don't understand why you constantly feel the need to attack everyone, but I can guarantee you that it does not gain you any respect or goodwill.
Considering your posts in the suggestion thread (which were good), you obviously do not need to lower yourself that much. So really mate, not everyone here is trying to beat you down or attacking you when they tell you something or disagree with you.
Hope you take something worthwhile from this.
Yes it's good to see the red flags have gone but it's not good to see the change in the wholesaler. Only one amount of each good on offer and the price increase is ridiculous. Human with a main hall at level 15 i can only buy goods in packages of 150 so if i buy 150 planks it costs 60,000 coins then if i want to buy 150 more planks the same day the price goes up to 90,000 coins. A 50% increase for one trade......unbelieveable.
Come on Muf-Muf please explain the reason behind this change.
I used the wholesaler to balance out my resources with excess coins and supplies I earned playing a few times per day and visiting everyone on my discovered field. Perhaps I will no longer visit every discovered player because I don't see the benefits for me in the new wholesaler.
I used the wholesaler to balance out my resources with excess coins and supplies I earned playing a few times per day and visiting everyone on my discovered field. Perhaps I will no longer visit every discovered player because I don't see the benefits for me in the new wholesaler.
There's an edit button under every post you make. The "+quote" button on the right side below posts let's you add them to multi-quote, which you can then add by clicking the "Insert Quotes" button.
The rest of your post is just full of Ad Hominems again, which you could and should learn to do without. You could have just said; "I don't know how, so could you explain it", but instead you decide to go on the full offensive and make this odd attempt at attacking/trolling/flamebaiting.
I don't understand why you constantly feel the need to attack everyone, but I can guarantee you that it does not gain you any respect or goodwill.
Considering your posts in the suggestion thread (which were good), you obviously do not need to lower yourself that much. So really mate, not everyone here is trying to beat you down or attacking you when they tell you something or disagree with you.
Hope you take something worthwhile from this.
um what? we were all discussing the update and you just appear out of nowhere and make a dig out of me replying to people separately and not knowing how to multi quote. You don't know what an ad hominem even is I said this in the last topic. I've said it many times you are the one with the issue and you displayed this in the last topic. I'm just going to ignore you sorry but every conversation with you ends up like this. you just are antagonistic for no reason and I'm done with you
As i have already said i mainly used the wholesaler to unload my main hall of coins and supplies when limits were reached but it was also the only way i could get some of my non boosted goods as there seems to be a shortage of certain goods. I constantly find myself short of steel and planks and when i look in the trader most of the time all the trades for steel demand planks and it is not very often i see people wanting to get rid of planks. It is the same thing with my t2 and t3 goods as well so Inno are trying to make me use a trader that does not even have what i need.
I do think this move by Inno is going to force more people to start up new cities to try to help with goods they do not have. One of the people in my fellowship has already done it to get steel boosted and was lucky enough to get it on his first attempt and i am contemplating doint the same thing to try and get planks as boosted. I have a lot of different email addresses so i could try a lot of times until i get it.
At the end of the day Inno have made this change and we are going to have to live with it and they are probably just thinking ok so the players don't like it, tough we can just let them vent all they want on the forum and ignore it for a week or two and then they will shut up and stop complaining and we can go back to normal and think of another way to screw them all up.
One of the people in my fellowship has already done it to get steel boosted and was lucky enough to get it on his first attempt and i am contemplating doint the same thing to try and get planks as boosted. I have a lot of different email addresses so i could try a lot of times until i get it..
The fact that players even have to rely on the rng in the first place is just inexcusable. In my suggestions topic one of the things I suggested was the ability to just choose your boosts upon creation. Most of the suggestions I have made in that topic are things that directly affect the UI (like easier implementation of neighbourly help, rotation/temp storage of buildings while reorganizing your city), and would make the gameplay itself far more enjoyable and have naff all to do with diamonds or costs of things, yet all they seem to be focused on is money. they should improve their actual game first and how it functions/balances before acting like its perfect and only caring about diamonds.
At the end of the day Inno have made this change and we are going to have to live with it and they are probably just thinking ok so the players don't like it, tough we can just let them vent all they want on the forum and ignore it for a week or two and then they will shut up and stop complaining and we can go back to normal and think of another way to screw them all up.
pretty much. The main issue that can be summed up is Innogames wants us to play their way and their way only. They reckon it would ruin our fun if they implemented any of our suggestions, which is obviously not true. If we were all having a blast and loving the game so much why are multiple people complaining about things lol. I would say to inno...No...it would ruin YOUR idea of fun ... but "the customer always comes first".
It reminds me of a parent forcing their son/daughter to live out their life the way they want them to(possibly what they wanted to become but failed), but the kid has their own dreams, not his parents dreams
There was a similar thread to this one talking about the changes that have been made, mainly the wholesaler and Muf0Muf has closed it to "keep the discussion in one place". Never commented on anything that was said just said thank you for the feedback. I wonder if he now realises that there is no real defence for this ludicrous change. Somewhere earlier in this thread he told me "we are here now and we are here to stay". Doesn't look that way from your silence Muf-Muf.
ve been playing this game for over a year now , i found it enjoyable at first but with all the changes the fun factor has pretty much been destroyed for me , fighting is so onesided its not worth the trouble , trade is now messed up , the game has become a dull and very expensive drag.
I have been on the cusp of ditching this game for a while but i was undecided hoping it would change for the better , these changes have now made my mind up , its only ever going to go downhill , time to find something i can enjoy .
Inno can keep my diamonds they are pretty worthless now anyway , the good thing is i now know not to waste any future time and effort by choosing another Inno product
My idea of a game is it should be fun and one should feel I have enjoyed myself playing this session.
Being honest that feeling went out the window already some changes ago, in August 2016 -The Battle Redesign.
I love to build, trade and I loved once the npc fights, must say I have really enjoyed play the game.
But it become less and less so specially with this very.. not sure how to express it, "not game friendly changes", "stupied changes", "we don't want you to enjoy playing our game changes".. many names.
I stop grow my barrack, armory, I have even tear down 2 armory as I see no point of have 3 of them anymore. First I thougth that when I reach at some point in the research (in 1/3 part of Wisdom and Wonders) I would be able to have enought fighters to win over the npc would happen, but nawww it's so far off.
Not sure if it different for the gamers who have played long time, more then 1,5 year or so. Rest of us new grow very very slow by playing without diamonds, just pure playing, again it start to feel more like an yoke heavy on my shoulders. ..
Now the Wholesaler changes.. whooa.. sometimes I wish just to exchange my 100 iron to 20 marble, it's my stuff so why am I not allowed to do that.. whom will it harm? Have you even thought of the new players in the game, you make if very very difficult for them, honestly whom come up with this idea.. really.. shame on you.
Still I will go on play the game but whitout any goal in the horizon as it seems to far fatched, also not log in more then couple of times /week, not like everyday and couple of time each day.. it was this was the last straw imo.
Thanks Innogames for creating this wonderful game, it was once a pleasure to play.
Soggy Shorts has come up with some very good ideas for the trader if you can get onto the Beta forum, its on the thread Trader - A truly dynamic Wholesaler. Inno said when they first withdrew the revised wholesaler from Beta last year that when it came back that was it - it was staying so really the best hope is for some useful suggestions such as Soggys so it can be modified to all our benefit. I am hoping there will be a poll on this subject if it gets enough support.
One idea for the wholesaler is to only have it open at set times of the day and have the item values/price the same as before the update. (Probably a bad idea I know). If players need resources in between opening times they will be forced to trade between each other or sit on their hands and wait.
This would then make players trade between each other (something Inno want players to do)
AND
We get the decent version of Wholesaler back!
The reply I received concerning the wholesaler stated it was to make the game more user friendly and that the BETA group had requested this via there feedback.
On the BETA forum there is now a petition to revert back to the old wholesaler so it obviously not all BETA players wanted those changes.
We have had one of the more established members of our fellowship quit already. Others are thinking of it.
If the idea was to force players to make trades it has not worked. Trading has not improved and first impressions so far is that trading for goods that I wanted to trade for before the changes is now even more difficult.
In almost every case when I look for a demand for my boosted goods I cannot find anyone requesting my goods or offering what I need for those goods.
The most difficult good to acquire in my opinion is Marble and Crystal. Many players relied on the wholesaler because these goods were unavailable for trade
The wholesaler was also a useful tool when the Main Hall reached maximum capacity and it was necessary to purchase some goods so they could continue with neighborly help. Now the cost of using this tool so you can continue your visit is too expensive. For now on when I reach capacity in the Main Hall I will only spend enough coins to visit those who have visited me already.
The wholesalers also served a very useful purpose by allowing players to overstock in their non boosted basic goods and to a less extent the other types of good. Players therefore were more willing to trade the goods they had purchased in the wholesaler for other goods. The newer version of the wholesalers has all but eliminated this strategy.
In my opinion this change makes me think of what is happening in the US today. Protectionism. Everyone will be holding on to what they have because it will be too expensive to trade with the Wholesaler (Foreigner) so they will need to rely on their own little world. My world is like my felllowship. There are a few people I can trade with but the majority of the players either do not produce what I need or they only produce enough for their own needs. My only alternative to get what I need is now too expensive.
I would not be surprised if I leave the game because it will soon be too frustrating to try and get the goods I need to play. I am noticing that is far more difficult already. My trades were sometimes accepted before I could finish placing all of them. Now I wait for hours and some never get accepted at all. All my trades are 2 and 3 star. That must tell you something
There's a lot going on in this thread - so this is about the wholesaler changes and somewhat about tournaments. It's also a half response to Mykan who can't be bothered to find the original quote, so in the same spirit, neither can I.
Here's how the changes in the wholesaler affect me.
In Winyandor, where I am approaching the end of the dwarf chapter, with Main Hall at lvl 17, 10 tier 1, 6 tier 11 and 3 tier III:
As I can no longer use excess coin to buy large quantities of non boosted Tier I goods:
I will no longer be aiming to complete 3 provinces in a tournament, I'll stick to 1.
I'll focus on my own boosted good relics.
I won't be accepting any kind of cross tier trades.
I will not pay in anything other than my own boosted.
I will not be helping out 'new' players.
I will limit my visiting to Fellows ship and neighbours who have visited me.
I will expect a lot more 3 star trades during "times of shortage".
As my Main Hall is at capacity, I will not be visiting Non Fs or non visiting neighbours.
I will think about ditching half my manufactories and building non boosted (I may well have to find a new FS if I do)
I will be logging on less.
I will be doing a lot more long production runs.
I will be ignoring quests that don't suit my immediate aim.
I will be racing up the research tree, doing the bare minimum to get to the end of chapters.
I will think a lot harder before accepting or placing a trade.
I may have to look for a new fellowship, but I won't be alone.
The changes unfortunately will not stop cross tier trading. It won't stop small players from having difficulty obtaining small quantities. It won't stop players from holding multiple accounts in order to deal with Tier I shortages. It won't encourage neighbourly help and cooperation. It won't encourage players to stay in the game. It won't encourage players to participate in tournaments and quests. It won't stop over expansion. It won't stop players from racing ahead too fast (it will in fact, now leave those of us who can't win a fight, with little else to do). It won't help players with no fellowship. It won't help players who are surrounded by inactive players and cross tier traders. (My situation in Arndyll) . It won't help fellowships as it encourages players to look after their own interests first. It won't help quest completion. It is a seriously counter productive move if you want to keep this game social, interactive and more about cooperation than about "winning" (there's nothing to win) and ranking points.
Short term, more diamonds may be spent.
I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.
If the cost of running this game is the issue, what about coming clean? There must be multiple ways of dealing with this, from two tier memberships to crowd funding to advertising to voluntary donations....
ve been playing this game for over a year now , i found it enjoyable at first but with all the changes the fun factor has pretty much been destroyed for me , fighting is so onesided its not worth the trouble , trade is now messed up , the game has become a dull and very expensive drag.
I have been on the cusp of ditching this game for a while but i was undecided hoping it would change for the better , these changes have now made my mind up , its only ever going to go downhill , time to find something i can enjoy .
Inno can keep my diamonds they are pretty worthless now anyway , the good thing is i now know not to waste any future time and effort by choosing another Inno product
My idea of a game is it should be fun and one should feel I have enjoyed myself playing this session.
Being honest that feeling went out the window already some changes ago, in August 2016 -The Battle Redesign.
I love to build, trade and I loved once the npc fights, must say I have really enjoyed play the game.
But it become less and less so specially with this very.. not sure how to express it, "not game friendly changes", "stupied changes", "we don't want you to enjoy playing out game changes".. many names.
I stop grow my barrack, armory, I have even tear down 2 armory as I see no point of have 3 of them anymore. First I thougth that when I reach at some point in the research (in 1/3 part of Wisdom and Wonders) I would be able to have enought fighters to win over the npc would happen, but nawww it's so far off.
Not sure if it different for the gamers who have played long time, more then 1,5 year or so. Rest of us new grow very very slow by playing without diamonds, just pure playing, again it start to feel more like an yoke heavy on my shoulders. ..
Now the Wholesaler changes.. whooa.. sometimes I wish just to exchange my 20 iron to 20 marble, it's my stuff so why am I not allowed to do that.. whom will it harm? Have you even thought of the new players in the game, you make if very very difficult for them, honestly whom come up with this idea.. really.. shame on you.
Still I will go on play the game but whitout any goal in the horizon as it seems to far fatched, also not log in more then couple of times /week, not like everyday and couple of time each day.. it was this was the last straw imo.
Thanks Innogames for creating this wonderful game, it was once a pleasure to play.
also they don't care about any of their players from what I have seen they have been doing things to piss off both new and old players, and refuse to make gameplay changes that an overwhelming amount of people want because its not their idea of how the game should be played. sigh
One idea for the wholesaler is to only have it open at set times of the day and have the item values/price the same as before the update. (Probably a bad idea I know). If players need resources in between opening times they will be forced to trade between each other or sit on their hands and wait.
This would then make players trade between each other (something Inno want players to do)
AND
We get the decent version of Wholesaler back!
In my opinion this change makes me think of what is happening in the US today. Protectionism. Everyone will be holding on to what they have because it will be too expensive to trade with the Wholesaler (Foreigner) so they will need to rely on their own little world. My world is like my felllowship. There are a few people I can trade with but the majority of the players either do not produce what I need or they only produce enough for their own needs. My only alternative to get what I need is now too expensive.
Be careful about making real world analogies as quite a few reading this feel they are irrelevant to any discussion about this game. I agree though
I would not be surprised if I leave the game because it will soon be too frustrating to try and get the goods I need to play.
possibly another (sorry if this comment confuses you. it refers to an earlier prediction I made about people leaving the game. of course a small majority on here refused to accept it, claiming I was the only person in the world who felt like this and my attitude was toxic. ive counted 5 people on here already and heard of others in fellowships that have quit already, and someone has even created a petition. I really don't know why innogames are in denial about everything
as if they would do that. the problem is they want everyone to play at their own ridiculous snail pace and make people get so frustrated that they resort to buying diamonds. if that worked then fine...but the problem is its not working lol. the game is riddled with many UI issues that make the gameplay sub par, and they are just in denial about it/refuse to accept it and focus on valentine quests that give worse buildings than the last event, a new troop that many cant use due to battling being impossible for them, and atmospheric effects (that the majority have turned off lol). there are others but I'm fed up talking about what their main focus should be.
Earlier today we received feedback that we are "not responding to all answers" and that we are only answering to a selection of posts. For this one time, I am taking the time to show you why we work like that. Enjoy the read.
We can re-hash ALL the old posts on the battle system if you like? Or the Orc-blockade on province completion? I'm sure there is more too.
Since you are forwarding our feedback, you should know exactly which "features" were most disliked and most hotly debated.
I already asked elsewhere, but what is considered to be "active"? Just logging in once a week, building a house / collecting from map? That's hardly active and does not benefit anyone. I am happy I was moved, but I do still see several of this type of village on my map. It does seem to be an ongoing issue for people.
For what it is worth; it is my opinion, which has been strenghtened over time with updates and events, that Inno is making the game a lot slower. So it might not be impossible to play without diamonds, their use is undeniably a huge boon and it is often promoted (heavily even).
The criticism is definitely not unfounded. I hope you also forward that bit of feedback.
Edit; honestly, I would personally MUCH prefer you answering questions with a "I/we don't know the answer (yet), but I/we will look into it. Ask again later, maybe I/we can help you then".
That is communication; silence always feels negative (imo)
Sorry, that's a load of Orc Dung.
Because do remember that in order to GAIN that advantage, we had to spend goods and supplies (troops). This game is all about trading one thing for another. So we traded KP for tournaments, and in the tournament we traded our goods/supplies for other benefits, as much as we found to be "worth it".
Your argument is therefor false; We didn't trade our KP for infinite free rewards. We traded KP for the OPTION to trade more of our stuff for other stuff.
So now we have tournaments where we still trade our stuff, but we lost our 40KP access-fee.
A refund would have been the only right option.
Edit; I even forgot to mention it was forced research. Basically we were forced to spend 40 KP to progress, which was not refunded when the research was removed. So yeah; for all intents and purposes we feel (and are) cheated out of 40KP.
Of course we are aware of which posts are debated and what topics are hot/trending in the community. We know that for all twenty two communities that we have across the globe. That doesn't mean we are able to do everything that is being said or suggested, as I'm sure you're well-aware of. Sometimes ideas of two people even completely contradict each other, meaning that if we do one, the other would be angry for doing the exact opposite of what they suggested. Whichever of the two we would then choose, we would always end up with one of the two blaming us for not listening. When we read feedback, ideas and suggestions, we try to find the underlying problems, and we try to find solutions for that. When we get a suggestion or feedback, it is likely that the person suggesting it also offers a solution. That solution may not always be the only one to solve the underlying problem.
"Active" is "has logged in in the past 30 days". We saw the question, and we answered it. Here to be exact: click.
We're sorry if the communication feels negative and we appreciate the feedback.
We're sorry that we differ in opinion regarding the invested knowledge points.
Wrong. Simply having researched the technology gave no advantage, it merely allowed us to continue with research. Actually participating in the tournaments gave an advantage, but the participation was not for free - we spent resources and/or troops to obtain the Relics, KPs and Rune Shards. And we continue to do so, the only difference is that new players don't have to waste 40 KPs to be able to spend their resources in the tournaments.
Anyway, here are a few questions for you:
- Is it true that at max level the Campus (main building of the next guest race) is 10x10? That's FOUR whole Expansions for just one building!
- Any plans to rebalance the Mist Walkers? Because currently they are far superior to the Dryads, to the point where if I had a choice what to train - Mist Walkers or Dryads - I would NEVER train a single Dryad.
- Any plans to implement some of the things players have been asking for, such as the ability to preview the battle field (since battle fields in Elvenar are not random), or KP packages, or a less time-consuming and annoying way to give neighbourly help?
- Any plans for updates to the Magicless Academy? It's supposed to be a core element of the game, but so far it's mostly a waste of an expansion. At the very least move it out of the city grid, like the Harbor in Forge of Empires.
...and it gave you access to the Tournaments feature, which grants loads and loads of advantages in the forum of Relics, Knowledge Points and Rune Shards.
To answer your questions:
Yes. But by that time you should have plenty of space in your city to do that, too. The size of the guest races assumes a certain percentage size in your city. While the building is big, removing the Orcs and Goblins settlement building will grant you the space you need. Anything you're short on can be gained within the Chapter. Remember: the first level of the building is not 10x10 yet. Growth goes gradually, as always.
Perhaps, if it's necessary. What would you suggest?
Considered, yes. Guaranteed, no.
Perhaps in the future. At this point there are no immediate plans, because we have other priorities at the moment. It will not be moved out of the city grid, that much is already certain.
I don't think i need to respond to this statement as it has been responded to very well with the posts above. I will add however that there are a large number of people playing this game that have never taken part in a tournament but they still had to research the tech to progress in the tech tree, how did they benefit from using the 40 KPs that the tournament research cost ?
Even though you didn't want to respond, we're happy you did. If people didn't participate in the Tournaments, isn't that also their own choice? They can, but of course they don't have to if they don't want.
This may be, kind of, true for many of us. But I would point out that there are many newer players who probably researched Tournaments in the weeks, even days leading up to the change. Some members of my FS researched tourneys a week or two before the changes. They had no choice, they had to research tourneys to move along the tech tree. Some people may not have even had a chance to do a single tourney before the change - that is most certainly wasted KP and resources to unlock the research for such newer players.
Another blatant Lie told by the Inno Team. This was questioned in Beta, it is being questioned now and the best you can come up with is a lie as an answer.
Researching Tournaments did not have any rewards other then being able to continue to play the game. If we did not research we could not progress even if we never entered a single tourney. Which is where the rewards came from not from the research which only blocked our progress.
We still had to actually go to the tourney and compete by spending resources on troops or resources on catering then and only then did we have a chance at any reward from the tourney.
The change to not needing to research, simply stole 40 KP from those that researched the tourney as we were forced to do as we did not have a choice not to.
This was brought up in beta and on live in the feedback just to be IGNORED yet again by Inno and then we are lied to by being told there were rewards to researching and spending the wasted KP, because we had a choice, yet in reality we actually had no choice.
Can we give the kp issue a rest please. Those 40 kp really dont matter, for all you know they reimburse us with 40kp but make the next research they add 40 kp more expensive.
They determin the price and its all virtual currency anyway.
For me it is not an issue of the price they charged for the research of the tourneys in the tech tree it is about the fact that we were forced to do that research to be able to progress further and then that research was removed.
If no KPs were used from clearing provinces or neighbourly help or anything other than the ones we get every hour then the tourney research took over one and a half days to complete. You may be happy to have used 40 KPs for something that was later taken away from you and yes you are correct that it is all virtual currency but it is more about the principle that we were forced to do the research in the first place. WE are all entitled to our own opinion but i can't help thinking you are in the minority on this one.
Most technologies are mandatory. It's how the game is built. Nothing we can change there. There would not be a game if we did not make many of the technologies optional, and there would be no way we could keep creating enough content to keep everyone busy if we did so.
No. We cannot when Inno reps insist on clinging to false arguments. I will give it a rest if THEY;
- Admit their argument is flawed (we already pointed this out several times)
- Either cough up 40KP or flat out tell us it won't happen.
I said something before about proper communication in this thread. Disregarding players and hoping an issue will pass by keeping quiet is NOT part of that.
Yes. Like the military units and buildings that we were all forced to research in spite of abundant evidence that people now negotiate for provinces instead of fighting. I consider that a huge waste of KP. Particularly since this is a city building game. Right?
Exactly what i mean with, they decide how and where we have to put kp in. You could be whining about those 300 or more kp you put into research and then you dont use either. They decide what we need to do, and if they change it later, thats up to them.
If i was an inno dev and was reading all this. I would say fine heres 40kp for everyone. But the next advanced scout would suddenly be 80kp more expensive then planned. Nothing anyone could do about it, and its 80 (instead of 40) more because of all the whining.
All this reimbursing costs developer time too, so it effectivly costs money too.
And yes it totally understand its about the principle, but theres far worse things inno does then not give back 40kp.
It is indeed the principle of the thing. If they don't want to hand us back 40KP then they should just say so, instead of keeping quiet or giving us a bs reason.
I don't know about you guys but i think the simplest way to have avoided this would have been to simply leave the tournament research where it was and not remove it.
I totally agree with what you are saying Killiak, any answer is better than no answer and i have to admit that i am a little disappointed that we have not had any more comments from Muf-Muf. Maybe he is too busy with other things.
Why leave a technology in the research tree if there is no use for it? And yes, sorry, I have been busy. Update preparation, creating announcements, discussing your feedback with our development team, etc. I hope you don't mind it too much.
Have to agree with Heymrdiedier, feels like you're making a mountain out of a molehill with this 40 KP issue. All I see is that they are making the game easier/more comfortable for new players.
And I'm not sure how easy it would be for the devs to make this 40 KP payback happen eithe, would rather see them spend their time on bugs and new features.
Personally I thought the answer was pretty clear. They gave a reason why you aren't going to get the KP back. You don't have to like it but you did get an answer.
While the path we have to follow like research in this game is the same we have a lot of free choice in how we work with the options provided. Inno expected we would make use of the benefit of tournaments and if we did we got a significant gain from it. If you want to say you traded goods for what you got, great, take your 40kp and divide it but the number of tournaments you did and add it to the cost of trading you did. personally the people who have a right to be upset are those who only just got the research and didn't get any benefit from it, this would be a very small number of people.
Bottom line is we are not going to get the 40KP back.
This could be your problem then This is a browser game there is no need to log out just close the browser. I know in my FS we had to teach people to log out so they did not appear to be online and in chat when people typed /who. Some thought they were just being ignored when they asked question or said trades up.
How many of these cities that never progress actually logged out and therefore your system thinks they are still active.
When clearly they are not based on the amount of feedback.
On another note 1.22 has been delayed?
Hope beyond hope that someone somewhere is actually listening to feedback and going to fix things first.
Wishful thinking I am sure.
Being logged in is not the reason, every account that reaches chapter 3 or bought any diamands ever (dont know what happens if you get free diamonds) those never get deleted
Unfortunately we will not be able to update tomorrow (February 1st). We found some problems with the new version that we want to address and resolve before updating our worlds for you. We hope to be able to do this soon and aim to offer you the new version later this week. We apologize for any inconvenience this causes.
I am not talking about well developed cities that get moved out to the ort cloud eventually that stopped playing.
I am talking about the hundreds of starter cities that have 2 residences 2 workshops and nothing else that have been around for 3+ months and get replaced with another one that is also inactive at the same point of development when and if they get deleted.
Yes I read that I knew it was delayed I was questioning if that meant that someone somewhere finally read all the feedback and decided to make fixes first before going live.
@Muf-Muf
I also wonder if that means the Valentines event is also delayed?
Does anyone know if it will still start Feb 2nd and what time if so
An answer that was proven to be false (or rather, a very weak argument) and not an actual answer to the question.The rest of your post is just assumption.
I already said that I want a straight up answer, and I will continue asking the question untill I get it.
We had to increase the prices due to reasons out of our control. Only for the GBP, not for any other currency. You can find all information on this here.
Innogames should really look up the definition of the word balance. Like I said last time with the other "update" just a load of irrelevant trash here and ignorant to the real issues that would improve the game immensely.
Also if they want to get more people to buy diamonds then my advice is don't price hike all diamond purchases by 25%, and then make wholesaler trading employ the same cancerous increase in cost every purchase that buying KP does.
Someone here has mentioned don't fix what isn't broken. I would say they keep further smashing things up that are already broken. "Oh its has some slight markings, lets fix it. Nah lets smash it to pieces since its already broken"
Make a list of all the things you think need to be fixed and post them on here Muf-Muf said they are always happy to hear from players about such things (just a pity he did not also say they would act on them).
First thing I noticed after the update: The red indicators on techs that are already researched are FINALLY gone! Yay!
Second thing I noticed: Orc Strategist, Dryad Promotion I and Drone Rider Promotion I are now mandatory to research, yet that fact is MISSING from the Release Notes! Good thing I had already researched them.
The Banshee is not yet mandatory (for Elves, at least), but that too will happen, no doubt.
Yes, we disabled those indicators in the research tree. We mentioned that these technologies would become mandatory with the update they were introduced. The Banshee will also become mandatory, but with version 1.23 (also was announced before).
that would be pointless. three updates have happened since ive been a member here and ive seen many worthwhile topics in the suggestions threads about the UI for the game that they haven't commented on, that have been ignored by innogames. The things that need fixing or creating/removing in the game which would enhance it are obvious in my opinion. You have to have someone recognize they have a problem before you can help them fix it, much like an alchohol or drug addiction. If they are in denial and refuse to accept there are any problems nothing will ever happen then its just me spending time writing out a list of things I believe need to change when they have no intention of changing anything.
Also I doubt someone who cant see the difference between shit starting and retaliation and gave me lots of points for retaliating to trolls has my best interests at heart. There are plenty members on here who will argue just for the sake of arguing. I'm not lowering myself to that standard anymore.
Anyway I digress, back on point...I have no intention of wasting my time trying to offer constructive criticism on this game when people just take it as a personal attack or troll, and refuse to accept any in game issues are present and defend the game like its perfect (just bringing bug fixes and minor balances is something a game company usually does when they are winding down an mmo or feel their game is too perfect to alter anything).
I've said all I am going to say about it sadly. I feel like a broken record when it comes to this issue of updates and suggestions to improve the game. Why don't you look in the suggestions thread and you will see I posted a fairly large topic with many suggestions, and a smaller one too. I'm just over it tbh.
Yes it's good to see the red flags have gone but it's not good to see the change in the wholesaler. Only one amount of each good on offer and the price increase is ridiculous. Human with a main hall at level 15 i can only buy goods in packages of 150 so if i buy 150 planks it costs 60,000 coins then if i want to buy 150 more planks the same day the price goes up to 90,000 coins. A 50% increase for one trade......unbelieveable.
Come on Muf-Muf please explain the reason behind this change.
There are multiple reasons that the Wholesaler was changed in how it works:
The old Wholesaler was not very user-friendly in the amounts that were offered. We wanted to change this to tie into your Main Hall level to allow for packages that would better fit your progress in the game.
In the new Wholesaler, you will notice that the prices will vary depending on the amount of goods that you purchase, this is due to us wanting to encourage players to trade more among their fellowship members and neighbors to acquire the goods they need.
The old Wholesaler was not as balanced as we would have liked, which is the main reason for our recent change. The original design for the Wholesaler was a last resort feature, once you acquired all the goods from your fellowship/neighbors.
The Wholesaler alteration was implemented on our Beta world in November of 2016, which never made it to our live servers at that time. We received a lot of feedback on how to improve the feature from our Beta community, and wanted to make sure that we offered the best alteration possible for our live servers. Please be aware that we are still taking feedback, and would love to continue to hear how we can improve the trading functionality even further.
Also, do note that the prices will reset daily, so you will not have to worry about the prices continuing to grow over time.
Still, if you have more feedback on it, we would be happy to hear it so that we can improve the feature even more.
Tomorrow though, the price for the first buy should have reset to 60.000 coins again.
I haven't found any official post explaining the reasoning, perhaps someone else can find it. In my opinion it's just another method of slowing down growth.
We believe this will re-incentivize trading between neighbors and Fellows. Also remember: even a trade with a fee, is still a lot cheaper than the Wholesaler will ever be (and ever was).
Thanks for the update, I for one have no issues with the current update and I have been rather vocal in the past. I've even stopped playing for a while. However, I find the game enjoyable and am looking forward to seeing how the game develops further.
they cant. Innogames thinks the only answer is price hike everything for some odd reason. On the 25% increase in buying diamonds....
1) that's not going to get non diamonds users to buy diamonds (they already thought it was expensive for what you got)
2) it might make some diamonds buyers stop buying diamonds
Thanks for sharing your concerns. We will definitely keep an eye on this, but we are convinced we made the right decisions, weighing the pros and cons against each other.
which they think will get people to buy diamonds...but oh they increased the cost of diamonds by 25% also. People just leave its as simple as that. Why don't they do a questionnaire on how many people have deserted cities around them for a start. had they made diamonds 25% cheaper than price hike them it would have been a start for their already flailing reputation
This is where the players that have been playing a long time get some of their first tier goods to help starting players and intermediate players with special trading deals to push them along. USELESS
This is also going to affect fellowship tournaments as there will not be as many goods about to barter your way through. USELESS
This will encourage people not to visit world players for coins as there is no point in getting just 1 trader deal per day. USELESS
This will affect all players of the game adversely. USELESS
Colouration of screen with a mist or fog does not help players with poor eyesight that have difficulty with colour definition. There is a advanced setting that allows you to toggle the atmospherics.
The developers seem to be intent on getting people to buy diamonds to progress and even that progress has been stopped. If they think that players (me included) are going to pay 13500 diamonds for one meagre 5 x 5 square they have another think coming. Thats £72.32 for a 5x5 square. GET REAL , that's just PURE GREED.
Scaling back participation until the developers come to their senses.
except it doesn't do anything, nor does changing graphic quality, and nor does putting yourself to automatic movement. Ive played around with all options and nothing changes. The game definitely looks worse now
I am really disappointed in this upgrade. I have had to quit fighting as I can never win, now I'm going to have to quit tournaments as without the wholesaler, I will never have enough tier I goods. I've my Main Hall at lvl 15 and have done this deliberately so that I have plenty of coin to buy tier one goods with. I am used to buying 4 to 5 k per day. I keep 10 manufactories of my boosted at as high a level as I can, and still don't have enough surplus to trade. In Aryndel my situation is worse... I am surrounded by inactive players and cross tier traders and can only depend so far on the fellowship as they are in the same situation. In Winyandor I am one of the players known for supporting new players/ lower levels with trades across all goods both ones I produce and ones I buy from the wholesaler. This too will no longer happen as all my tier one will go to upgrades and trading for my own city. I really do think this is a step backwards. Coupled with the tournaments now being a fellowship affair, people are focussing on their own boosted and their own cities. I thought this was meant to be a "social", "interactive" game.
I'm going to give it time, but I really think the developers should spend less time on kitschy seasonal quests, and more on improving the game.
In protest, I'm not buying diamonds again, and if the game doesn't stop making it so difficult I will upgrade my Main Hall and log out for good.
We are sorry that you have to change your strategy a bit now, but we are sure that you will be able to find a way to get enough Tier I resources for your Tournaments. You could but some extra Manufactories, and trade with your neighbors and Fellows, for example.
Fighting in tournaments should be possible if you just do a few provinces, I have a village which is the chapter before dwarves, not focussed on fighting at all and has done none of the non-compulsory squad size techs, 3 armories and a lvl 15 barracks and have so far this tournament done 3 rounds of the first 5 provinces, I have fought in 90% of the encounters and have had to negotiate very few (around 12 max), and thats just using treants and/or golems.
I stopped province fighting in all my cities a long time ago, fighting bores me and I really can't be bothered trying to work out which encounter needs which troops from the masses on offer, nor can I be bothered to look for the troops in 3 different places. Scouting is taking me between 36m and 2d 16h depending on city and I just negotiate the province when the scouting is done, set the scouts again and thats it.
If your scouts are that long, you should consider not scouting further for now. The higher the price of a scout for a province, the more difficult the fights and the more expensive negotiations will be. This is tied directly to the costs to scout a province. That's also how the Advanced Scouts help you: they lower the prices for scouts, which in turns lowers the difficulty for a province. Once scouted, the province no longer changes.
I can fight a few encounters in tournaments, but have to complete with catering. I gave up all province expansion except quest related some time ago, as fighting became impossible and negotiation ridiculously expensive. Now that tournaments are fellowship affairs there is pressure to complete at least one province, which if I can't buy large quantities of tier I for use and trading is going to be punitively expensive. With less trading and less tournament participation, and a maxed out main hall, the sensible option is to downsize, do long production runs, only visit trading neighbours and fs members.. and log in twice a week, instead of everyday. It may even pay to start producing non boosted depending on the distribution of active neighbours on the map and how the fellowship is set up. It has really slowed my development. I have been playing almost daily since Aug 2016 and haven't finished Dwarfs yet... any slower and it's a dead stop.
I'll get bored, and end up as another of those deadbeat villages. It is a real step backwards for my type of player and we are many.
There are plenty of Fellowships out there that would not pressure you into participating in tournaments. Don't feel obligated to do something you don't want to!
yup log in twice a week and somehow they think that is an acceptable speed to play at. The biggest issue of them all is "inno knows best". I've spoke about the battling issue on here until I was blue in the face and many people on here were rude, in denial and still are, refusing there was an issue in existence simply saying "it's your fault because you scouted too far. don't scout now at all until fairies shouldn't take too long". When you're in era 3 that's pathetic and nobody would find that an acceptable way to continue playing they will just continue to ignore battling for negotiating/catering....oh wait they are trying to mess that up now too. If they were so bothered about how fast people grow they would have made battling AND catering/negotiating both impossible after a certain point to hammer home that you have gone too far. Why they even care the speed at which players progress is beyond me. People are playing their game at the end of the day and having fun their way.
They don't understand the word balance yet keep talking about balance fixes in their update, whilst unbalancing whatever they can. They have this idea of how players should play their game, and ignore what their players are saying, even the ones buying diamonds. Some peoples fun comes in playing a game every day that doesn't progress at a snail pace, because of ridiculous imposing restrictions by the developer to stunt growth.
did I quote you? No. Check again and see who I actually quoted. Unless you are Aisling1 of course?
How you choose to play is up to you. Stop replying to posts that are not about you and making them about you. The only reason you're second on the server is because you buy more diamonds than sense like everyone else in the top ten. Innogames is basically taking the mick out of you by price hiking the diamonds by 25% because its certainly not going to make non diamond buyers suddenly say "oh wow nice gesture ill support them with cash now". The fact you cant see what is intrinsically wrong with what you just said about still buying even though I get less for my money is kinda sad.
I'm gonna make one of those real world analogies again which lots of people on here don't like and think are irrelevant when they're actually very relevant....you've been with sky tv for a year and on a package within your means and buy movies and things separately. One day they price hike all movies and tell you that your sub no longer has 2gb of internet but 1.5gb, and that your minutes have been slashed on your calls. What percentage of customers would be happy with that and just blindly support them saying "its ok I wont buy movies anymore I just get less for my money now but will continue to keep paying them". Most would look elsewhere then leave. You can deny this but its fact that the majority of people would react that way.
Game companies rely mainly on NEW players buying in-game currency pretty much straight after registration. What happens next is 90% of them leave within a day, 2 days, a week, a month etc etc. So these companies hike prices up as new players will not know about the previous prices, therefore, they will not complain until another price rise. Combined, players who stay long term do not spend more money than what game companies make from new players spend initially. Another reason why they go up is a lack of new players so they try and get more money from current players to offset what they are losing from new players spending or they are just being greedy But in most cases it's the first reason.
If that were the complete truth, then why would we make a game that you can literally play for years and years and years? Would be easier (and probably cheaper) to make shorter games then, right?
I don't think they understand how to make money then. Because in my opinion if they had made diamonds worth more, far more people would buy them, and in the long run they would make more money overall from diamonds being cheaper or them lasting longer/having more effect. lets say you have two shopkeepers (oh no its an analogy brace yourselves) and shopkeeper a) is selling something cheaper or offering more for the buyers money at the same price as shopkeeper b) but over a months sales shopkeeper a) makes more profit its not a hard concept to grasp. Innogames think their game is perfect, and are just greedy for cash. When they have lost enough diamonds users (youre not enough lisica) that they cant keep the game in development, they might reflect on their "business" decisions along the way. The game has massive potential but sadly they think its already perfect.
I have payed for IAP in lots of games that it was worth it for. Apart from magic residences/workshops and culture buildings, province expansions, the only reason to use them is finish things faster. when you get 1100 diamonds for £7.99 but it costs over 2000 diamonds to upgrade something instantly who is going to do that? very few people. I'm pretty sure there are people who use diamonds just to complete things instantly but these people generally have more money than sense. You also forgot to mention that whilst price hiking because new players left that there are still new players that didn't leave and long term players still here that just think "wtf seriously?"
The goal is to make the game attractive enough that new players want to spend their cash on IAP. Since theyre focusing on valentine events that give far worse building rewards than scream of halloween and daunting pumpkins, and naking everything more expensive I guess they didn't notice. lets say this update just focused on one thing...an overhaul of how neighbourly help was applied, making it possible to one click the help to everyone without loading every city separately. That one thing alone would have far outweighed anything they have done so far. The game has several UI issues that they aren't even aware of, refuse to accept, or just in plain denial over
Personally i think the mistake they are making is they are trying to make more money from the people that are still buying diamonds by putting up the price because they have lost so many players when they changed the fighting but that might be putting the price out of even more peoples reach. MAYBE it would be more of a success if they lowered the price of things and then more people could afford them so profits would increase because they would sell more. Something for you to think about possibly Inno, i know that type of thing has worked for others.
yup. basically what I just said. Respect is earned. A statement like that (lowering costs and making battling better for those that scouted far) would clearly go a long way with most people, instead of trying to patch up their mistakes with further hole digging
If I was them my update would have included various UI issues, a rehaul of battling, and a slash of prices of diamonds, with some of them offering free builders again, or free diamond buildings. Also I would implement diamonds as prizes in the chests rewarded for neighbourly help. Since its rng you couldn't abuse it...although what is wrong with having a declinable quests that gave diamonds either. People would oppose this because it could be "farmed" so I would just leave diamonds prizes as rng
Even with rng it can still be farmed. That said, we are looking into ways to improve our quest systems. If you have suggestions, be sure to post them in the Ideas and Suggestions section of the forums.
Your right it's the complete opposite of what they should be doing as it would increase the retention of new / older players if prices where lower and it would increase sales of premium currency. However, these companies don't see it like that. It could also be that they are bringing the price in line with other similar games. I don't know tbh as I'm only playing this one atm. But there is obviously something wrong which is making them increase prices. If there is a drop in current players buying currency they will up the price to capitalise on new players stupidly spending before they have played for more than a day as they do not know any different. Which is what I think is going on. They don't seem to care about current players. Games companies never seem to do. This also is the case with game suggestions and surveys the gaming companies do. Hardly anything anyone says gets listened to. It's all about the $$$$$
the problem is...the game itself has too many issues to compete with prices the same as other games. There is no motivation at all to buy diamonds unless you are just one of those top 10 players who have more money than sense and literally throwing their cash away. The number one player on my server has 30 magic residences at level 8, and 10 magic workshops at level 8, various culture buildings only bought with diamonds, builders and magic residence at max level. I'm assuming he had to use diamonds to upgrade hid magic buildings too? they probably spent diamonds on all expansions, and completed whatever they could instantly as well. They do not represent normal folk with logical reasoning. That being said it's their money and they can spend it however they wish. If they earn £100,000 a year and want to spend £100 a month on diamonds...whatever.
Also there are people on here who will be more bothered by the fact someone agreed with me and liked my post rather than accept the game has issues, and just argue with me about why the game is perfect. Make sure they don't accuse you of being an alt of mine and delete all your comments and ban them like they did with the last person that agreed with me.
I'll agree with you on this: it is each individual's own choice whether or not they want to spend money on Diamonds or not. We offer a free game, available for everyone. If you want to buy into some convenience and/or speed, we offer the possibility to do that, using Diamonds. Nobody is forced to use that option, though. You can play the full game without spending any Diamonds.
One other problem is the actual number of players on the servers. This forum only has just over 3k registered. (i know some players wont be on here) This is between 2 servers as well. It's not a lot tbh compared to some games. Could be another reason for price rises.
The number of players on the forums is always (very) low compared to the number of players actually in the game. We're talking just small percentages here.
You're not listed there if you don't perform any action within the last 15 minutes. Whether or not you're logged in to the forum doesn't matter there. The "robots" are just the crawlers from search engines like Google.
Yeah i know those numbers but there is probably quite a few more online who do not sign into forums. As this is not done automatically when signing into the game. But overall there is 3,079 registered people on this forum.
The changes in currency between the two has been going on since the vote results was announced and sterling in not maintaining it's strength against the euro
they also tried to post a fraudulent deal of 40% free diamonds, when they were only offering 15% free and slyly making you pay for 25% of those 40% free diamonds, thinking people wouldn't notice their tactics. adopting cancerous con artist methods similar to what a supermarkets would do (price hike something for a few months then reduce it with crazy deals that are still more expensive than before they price hiked) is pathetic
We don't do this. If you have evidence of this happening, please contact Support so that we can look into it and straighten this. This is not a way in which InnoGames (and therefore: Elvenar) does business. We do advertise, and we do use offers and discounts, but it is always clear up front what you will receive upon buying the offers we present.
It's a business at the end of the day. We will never find out why. Closely guarded secret. Prob going bust and trying to bleed us dry before going under
I can't be stuffed looking for the original quote and I think it was on beta back when they first changed the wholesaler. This is the adjusted wholesaler after beta feedback. The reasons are along the lines of "Players generating too many goods through the wholesaler and not trading with each other".
So the price hike is to prevent those who were generating 1000's of goods through the wholesaler (you could do this in era 1/2 and later era towns). It resets though to not make it prohibitive to regular player, granted it does impact it and you have to reconsider your approach to the wholesaler. If you buy round 1 offers from all tiers before round 2 you aren't suffering a price hike and can minimise the need to pay round 2 price. This would also encourage you to trade, my concern is it is more likely to encourage cross-tier trading.
With people not relying on the wholesaler for goods ideally they will trade more, they may just build non-boost factories but each person can figure out their own strategy.
A person using the wholesaler for a dump of excess coins/supplies still has this option but obviously less goods being generated from the dump.
seriously who would buy anything from the wholesaler even before. it was 100 marble for 20 planks or 20 steel. Most overpriced garbage ever at 1:5. If people are trying to make goods using only that something is terribly wrong in how they are playing. I just used it for a dump when my coins and supplies were at maximum capacity
Are you saying that you didn't have a need for the goods you bought? If so, what is the problem with not buying them now (or buying less of them)? If not, what exactly are you trying to say?
nah. most diamond buyers have a logical thought process which isn't just buy whatever when I can because I can. And most people go by the motto of respect is earned and any company that price hikes things (even if its not regularly like inno are doing) loses respect from its customers period.
Not once did anyone at innogames go "maybe if we make things cheaper more people will buy" or "maybe if we fix battling for the people who have scout too much and make it balanced" or "maybe if we fix things in the UI it will make people not leave cities abandoned after 1 days play" (like being able to choose your boosts) or "maybe if we make applying neighbourly help via the bell less tedious, or application of the help in general less tedious. Or "maybe if we add a temp storage feature for those with no space whilst reorganizing buildings that expand", or "maybe we give them a rotate feature".
I could go on about things they could have done before price hikingallthethings but I really cant be bothered
And what if we would actually let people choose their boosted good? Will that solve any problem we're facing today? Seriously, from where I'm standing it seems it would only create an inbalance. With the current mechanics, you will always -on a global scale- have the same number of people with each boosted good. Can't get much more balanced than that.
Yeah, the problem word there being "ideally". It's going to be a real bother for people who have less sizable neighbours or less active neighbours.
Personally, I didn't rely on the wholesaler but got lucky with an active fellowship / neighbours.
I wonder how my trader will look once the dust settles.
There were 2 very easy ways to do it that I know of, may have been more. The most obvious is coins, it was possible to buy 1000's of goods using wholesaler and that was with excess coins, could have passed 10K+ (t1 goods) a day if a person really wanted to.
Edit: @Killiak yeah it will be interesting to see how it goes. While luck comes into the neighbourhood it really takes very few people to get the trader working. The player movement will help this, just wish they would add something into the tutorial about joining a fellowship.
A tutorial on Fellowships could actually be a good idea. We already kind of advertise it by having the chat window "available" when you are not already in a Fellowship. Opening it will show you what Fellowships are and will make it possible for you to either join one or found your own.
There has already been a lot more zero star and cross-tier trading - if they wish to encourage that then we need filters on the trader so that we can sift through to 2 star/3 star/same tier trades without trawling through all the rubbish.
Thanks for your feedback. This has indeed also been one of the things we have been considering. But no final designs on anything related to that are available at this point.
One of the reasons the rolled back the initial trader changes on beta was because of the feedback that they could not expect people not to use the wholesaler when their neighborhoods were a desolate wasteland and there was not one to trade with. I believe they said they planned on giving the player movement a longer chance to give people more active neighborhoods for trading.
Unfortunately, some of us here on the EN server still have not seen any player movement in their areas and are looking at very inactive neighborhoods. I keep some stats on my found neighbors ( 90 currently ) and around 82% were inactive this week, which is about normal for my neighborhood. Not all of the 18% who were active have progressed to having Tier 2 or Tier 3 goods.
Fortunately, I have some opportunity with trading with my fellowship members, though we are a fellowship with a lot of new lower level players so don't necessarily have an abundance of Tier 3 goods available.
I feel if they wish to force us to trade more, they should do more to fix the inactivity of our neighborhoods instead of penalizing us trying to make up for unavailable goods via the trader.
I doubt that very much. I am almost always max on both coins and supplies and figures of 10k goods per day sorry but they seem plucked out of nowhere. On the old system it was:
800 supplies = 20 t1
3200 = 20 t2
That equates to 400k supplies = 10k t1 goods. Sorry but 440k supplies is the max capacity for a rank 15 main hall city so i doubt very much players in era 1 and 2 were passing 10k goods a day let alone a rank 15 player because once they use all that they aren't getting 400k supplies back for a long time probably a week imo. If you try to use your boosted goods in the wholesaler its at a ratio of 1:5. Considering the majority of the game think youre oxygen stealing scum of the earth if you place a 1:4 offer on the trader who would willingly trade away at 1:5....hypocrites or people just dumping excess goods (is there even a capacity limit on goods anyway?)
what is wrong with a 2 star cross trade? absolutely nothing. you need multiples of every good throughout the game. I think its very narrow minded when players limit other players to t1:t1 t2:t2 t3:t3. I frequently take and offer t3:t1 trades, t2:t1 trades, and t2:t3 trades depending on which goods need balancing out the most. playing the game with a mindset of trading all your boosted goods for non boosted goods and just having lob sided amounts of each goods is also not one I support. you need a balanced amount of all type of goods. if you make 1k elixir and then trade them all for 1k magic dust...what use is that really.
I will continue to be narrow minded and not take cross tier trades even if they are 2 star as it is still unfair for me to have to give (example of 3* trade) 1000 scrolls to receive 500 elixer..... I will wait for someone offering 500 crystals for 500 scrolls thanks very much.... Just one example of greed imo
Actually I didn't say there was anything "wrong" with any trade, its entirely up to each individual how they trade, I would just like to see some filters on the trader so that I can get to equal trades quickly. Zero starred trades are zero starred meaning they do not offer equal value. Crossed tiered trades may be equal in coin and tools but are often not equal in time. As there are more trades being offered, which in itself is a good thing, I think there is a place for more filters on the trader.
read my replies about the wholesaler then. How can you be greedy its literally the worst ratio for anything.
Using the old system it was 800 supplies = 20 t1. Since Mykan posted figures of 10k goods being easily reachable every day using the wholesaler here Ill let you know how that is possible....
400k supplies = 10k t1 goods using the wholesaler. The capacity for a rank 15 main hall city is 440k supplies. So you do this once and are left with 40k supplies. The next time you see your supplies in red will be at least a week maybe two depending on how casual you are since the best quest for supplies is a 3hr one that gives 4k supplies. Nobody would be stupid enough to trade away over 90% of their total capacity of supplies like that just for 10k t1 goods.
What about boosted goods in the wholesaler? You have to trade them at a 1:5 ratio which is just a complete waste of goods. Considering 99% of the game think youre an amoeba if you place a 1:4 trade on the trader who is going to do a 1:5 trade? Hypocrites? Only reason someone would do that is if there is a capacity on goods and they need to dump them. Not something any new player has the luxury of doing. If there is a goods capacity I would like to know what it is. 999,999?
The only reason to use the trader in my opinion is to dump excess supplies. much like dumping excess coins into buying knowledge points (only with that there is a drawback because you keep increasing the cost, the same drawback they have now added to the wholesaler)
please explain why it is unfair if both of them are 2 star, and especially if the cross tier trade is 3 star. those goods are 1:4 either way on a t1:t2 and its no different than posting a 1:1 t1. both are fair trading. If I am low on t1 and have a lot of t2 ill place a trade for t1 or accept trades for t1. limiting yourself to 1:1 2:2 3:3 is narrow minded when you need all types of goods
that's fine. I don't disagree with a filter for those who want to ignore those trades. I just think if a cross tier trade is 2 star there is nothing wrong with it. Why limit yourself unneccesarily? YOu need all types of goods and if your t1 are all low yet your t2 and t3 are high ish what you gonna do? sit there waiting for your 100 100 t1:t1 trades to sell or just post a t2:t1 trade and get the goods you need instantly and fairly.
Probably not, which is also how the Wholesaler was intended to begin with. The intention of the feature was always a 'last resort', but it never really was. Instead, the feature became a way to gain millions of goods (with time, of course), which results in never having any need to trade. And then people who don't want to use the Wholesaler due to its high prices complain that there are no trades on the market. Vicious circle right there.
ditto. Do you even know what constructive criticism is or do you take anything that isn't blowing smoke up your ass as a personal attack? If your t1 goods are all low enough that you cant even complete a province (figures of less than 1k), yet you have over 10k t2 goods there is nothing wrong with placing a 1k offer of your t2 in exchange for someone giving you 4k t1 or whatever you want 2k>8k. YOu need all types of goods in this game. what would you rather do...trade frustratingly and slowly with less than 100 f each t1, or get the goods you need with a fair cross trade and instantly gain the goods fairly?
well you cant just post extremes as normality. there is no way I would trade away 200k supplies for 500 t1 goods, let alone 400k for 1k. That's half of my supplies capacity and is just bad management of resources because it would take me a while to get back up the 200k supplies back up...and 500 t1 goods doesn't get you anywhere in the grand scheme of things, neither does 1k goods. That's not even a third of goods in one encounter in some provinces.
with regards to cross tier trading lets say you have 240 marble, 470 steel, and 100 planks, yet you have over 20k of each t2 goods. Its quicker for you to just place a 2k(t2):8k(t1) or something similar to give yourself instant boosts to your t1 quickly, without having to struggle doing 100:100 trades at t1 for way too long for example
Saying it once is quite enough... To go on repeating is a waste of energy... I read what you have to say about cross tier trading at least 3 times.... I do not agree with you however you write it or how often.... I do not agree with you
I never once called you narrow minded personally. I quoted sunrae so unless you are sunrae on an alt why would you say this unless you didn't think every commented was directed at you?
disagreeing with me is fine. its how you deal with someone having a different opinion to your own, even to the point of making a taking a separate convo not about you as a personal attack. Disagree with me all you want that's fine I don't care as much as you do if someone disagrees I'm merely debating. You shouldn't reply to constructive criticism with personal insults is all I am saying. Theres always the option of disagreeing and leaving it there like most people
to clarify how is a 2 star cross trade greed?
take your own advice then. the only reason you think its "repeating" is because you look at comments where I'm talking with different people and somehow think that I'm addressing you every single time. If I quoted you 3 times and repeat the same thing about cross trades then maybe your comment has some validation. Also I wouldn't care if you didn't want to hear it or not I'm entitled to say I think cross trading is fair as many times as I want to as many different people as I want. You always have an option to not reply or just hit the ignore button. You're so passive aggressive its unreal
And this is why they keep getting away with crap game design and crappy updates changes.
You guys are both saying that the change to the wholesaler was not a good change just for different reasons or different points of view.
Yet you are fighting each other rather then the bad game mechanics.
What it boils down to is the cost of producing the goods, tools and coins right? Wrong. It's also about the population and culture (indirect space usage if you will) the manufacturies take up. The current market system only values trades according to tools and coins cost in a scale of 1:4:16, ie 16 T1 resources are considered as much worth as 1 T3 resource.
Well, I think many players have a gut feeling that there's something unfair about the cross-trade ratings even if they don't know exactly what is wrong, since if you go to the market (at least in my experience) there's always an abundance of cross-trades trading a higher tier for a lower tier at a 2-star rating (actually an unfair trade imo). But there's almost never any trades exchanging lower tier resources for higher tier ones.
With lvl 15 manufactories the ratings would be roughly 1:2:4 instead of 1:4:16, but it all depends on which chapter you're in and what kind of culture buildings you're using.
To be honest, in my neighborhood it is rare to see any cross-tier trades. And when they're there, they are usually rather small in size (newer players?) and typically have a 2-star ratio. Of course this can be very different in other areas. But if you don't like a trade, just don't accept it? Or write a message to the player offering them to explain why, and ask for single-tier trades instead, so that you can still help them out and get some of the goods you need at the same time?
In the beginning of this thread I was talking about the update changes and offering constructive criticism about the games elements. Cregganroe just sees other peoples convos and directs them at himself for no reason. I'm not fighting with them just pointing out that the world doesn't revolve around them with every post. If I post something and nobody replies, or someone does but disagrees...so what I don't care its called a discussion. Something you, me and everyone else was having until cregganroe makes it all personal by reading others comments and thinking they are about them all the time then liking posts that disagree with that person. Its called being passive aggressive.
I agree with you the update changes are terrible and was only ever offering constructive criticism on why they are and what they could have done to make it better. I have two threads in the suggestions forum.
Interesting ill check that link out in a sec. To me all goods are needed though and if I'm lacking in one area I will make the trade via a cross trade if I need to. Giving myself 16000 t1 from a 1000 t3 is instantly topping me back up and I can do that with a 2 star trade. I do offer the ones going up and accept the ones going up too if I need them
Here's an example where it's a bit easier to see how wrong the star system is for cross trades.
Made by using the tool city planner at www.elvenarchitect.com, great site btw!
I left out stuff like mainhall, roads etc to make it a bit easier, will still be able to see the difference.
Here we see a village only producing T3 goods, making 775 elixir per day:
Trading T3 for T1 with a 2-star trade would has got a 1:16 rate.
So if I wanted to trade the elixir produced here for say Marble, then I would gain 775*16=12400 marble per day.
So let's look at a village producing roughly that amount:
See any difference between the 2 villages? The market rating sure doesn'nt
This is why I think the star rating system can be misleading as it might make people believe that the cross tier trades are equal, which in actual fact they are not. This is not to say that they are wrong, just not equal. As a city grows there is less need for trading cross tier as, for instance, my city never runs low on goods as my factories are upgraded to a high level and so there is no advantage for me. If I need an extra boost of goods then I use the spells. I do understand that everyone is at a different point in the game and each plays their own individual way. My suggestion only was for some more filters on the trader as it would make trading quicker.
If you have more than one city and are in fellowships and also visit neighbours regularly then you can find yourself spending rather a lot of time on the game.
I only used the trader to use coins and supplies when my main hall was full like a lot of other people it seems so now i need to either pay the new over price cost or find another way to use my excess coins (supplies will not be a problem). Here is where Inno in theory may have shot themselves in the foot. They are trying to stop people from advancing through the game faster than they think we should but now to help use my coins i will keep my scout going 24 hours a day whenever i can and that is the opposite of what Inno want. If all players did that then Inno have made us do what they are trying to stop us doing. Not very likely i know but i did say it was a theory.
You can always buy some Knowledge Points with any excess coins. Spend them on technologies, or on Ancient Wonders, for some extra bonuses in your city!
I understand that you want to stop people ignoring trades, but penalising use of the wholesaler whon't do that. The regular tournaments effectively drain a third of the possible resources from the market place for 3 and a half days every week, they are not there to trade for! Trashing the wholesaer like you have is just diminishes my ability to actually do anything in the game for half the week, which means I will spend that time playing other games - if I like them better than yours I will move to them long term - you've got to keep the game flowing if you want people to play long term.
yes the wholesaler change was utterly perplexing and ill conceived.
My scouting takes 2 and a half days, after one round of coin collection I am back to full capacity. All this doe sis limit the ability I have to gaining items I cant boost, the game is so broken in trading its not true. The ONLY way this change would be any sense if you could see ALL trades across the world to force you to trade with others. There always seems to be dearth of certain goods in my large region, steel and crystal, I regularly take lots of marble trades and buy the steel from the trader, but I'll be only able to buy MUCH less steel now, meaning I will not require the trading of the marble. this kills the market further. Who the hell thought this through? Mickey Mouse esq?
One serious concern...
Feeder towns to produce more goods for main towns existed before this change to the wholesaler mechanics.
Now that less goods can be got from the wholesaler will this practice become more commonplace?
If so then are we likely to see even more abandoned towns because the goods boosts of the feeder towns were not as required? - I sincerely hope not!
I'm also highly amused by the stupidity of having early repeatable quests that totally encourage the continual use of the wholesaler and then at a later time having to "fix" the exact issues that these quests encouraged.
I refer to these type of quest:
Gain 40 Planks : reward 6000 coin + 600 supplies
Gain 40 Marble : reward 6000 coin + 600 supplies
(for a player with steel as tier 1 boost)
If 20 were bought with 8000 coin and then a further 20 bought with 800 supplies.
Total cost for 40 was 8000 coin + 800 supplies
You'd then get back 75% of this cost back as a quest reward!
Simply put: If you encourage something to happen then the chances are it will
Sigh. Yup, you've stuffed the wholesaler. For starters, there's no way to buy any variation in quantity anymore. So if you only want to buy a 100 of something to say top off a quest or get enough to finish a research, you can't, you have to buy whatever the assigned allotment is - mine is currently 205 for 82,000 coins first tier. Get stuffed. I have a well balanced healthy trading fellowship, don't need the goods.
Entire game strategies have been built around the wholesaler (not mine, but I know people who have). Don't like it? Tough. There was nothing wrong with the wholesaler. You advertised it of what to use to get rid of coins, and it's what most of us do.
Given I can't scout because of your other brainless, stupid 'improvement' - orcs - WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO WITH MY COINS NOW? I can't get rid of the residences because I need that much population. I needed to build more residences to get the population to build armories (which I didn't previously have so I could get stupid orcs.
Another wondrous "Improvement" perhaps to deal with excess coin issue?
Put it back the way it was. Get rid of the damn orcs too - or at least don't introduce them until the player actually reaches the orc level.
We never advertised the Wholesaler as a dump for coins and/or supplies. That doesn't mean it wasn't used as such, though. Regarding your question: coins can still be used in other areas of the game - you can use them for upgrading your buildings, but also to buy some Knowledge Points to invest in technologies or Ancient Wonders.
I agree with the majority of responses here that the Wholesaler is now hosed. If we can't keep our stores of coin and supplies in balance by "dumping" the excess on goods with the wholesaler, at some semblance of an equitable ratio, then we should at least be able to buy/trade for Diamonds with that surplus. Speaking as a player that has never purchased Diamonds and will have to quit the game if it becomes a requirement.
If you have way too many Coins and Supplies, consider removing some of your Residences and Workshops. You might have too many of them for what you actually need, and it will free up space for other buildings, such as the Guest Race Settlements or Ancient Wonders.
Not only is my world neighborhood filled with towns like this but I have over 100 empty spaces (Gold Mines). There is no trading possible with these circumstances. The rest of us trade as much and as often as we can but we NEED the wholesaler at a REASONABLE cost to fill in with what is NOT available any other way. Not happy with this new development. Maybe the developers should PLAY the game so they see what the problems really are. And when Support says they delete inactive villages after 30 days I don't believe it. There are many of these villages in my world that have been there for many months.
Sounds like you're near the edge of the map, which means it's likely that you will be moved closer towards the center in one of the next rounds of player movement - as long as another spot closer to the center is available, of course.
Yea I wasn't getting at you either and I agree that a filter is a good idea because it doesn't have to be used by people who want to see all trades, its just that a lot of newer players will find themselves running low on goods more than higher ranked players think (or forget they were once there at some point themselves) and the easiest way to solve that is a t3 or t2 trade back to t1 rather than struggling to make any progress with t1 trades of like 100:100 and waiting on goods productions and losing all momentum in the tournament for example
you could have just told me how to do it instead of carrying off from being rude like in your last replies to me on another post and having a general tone of thinking youre better than everyone else. I'm just going to ignore you tbh. you don't know how to have a debate normally without lowering the tone to taking digs at people
100% agree. I made all these points myself a few days ago about the speed inno thinks we should play etc and its true they have shot themselves in the foot. I too was only using the wholesaler to get rid of excess supplies so I could get the max value from quests
good point. it would appear they don't really care whether you like the game or not because they want us to play it their way. There have been several posts for suggestions for the game where innogames have effectively said it would ruin "our" fun. I mean seriously they're trying to tell players that what they would like in the game is not their idea of fun and would ruin the game 0_o
they must think price hiking diamonds and screwing up the wholesaler is going to redeem them from any negative comments
the same people who price hiked diamonds by 25% a few days ago, and tell players how they must enjoy the game making them play their way lol
so true. those quests are amazing in the beginning to get yourself to max capacity lol. theres also these ones....
"place 3 trade offer"
"accept 1 trade"
that offer huge rewards and so easy to spam
also if you use your boosted goods the ratio is 1:5 (100 marble for 20 steel for example....no thanks). what about supplies? 800supplies = 20 t1. that's 400k supplies for 10k goods (which is what you will need for one province at least at my level....so again no thanks lol)
As you say its best use (and only use for me) is to just prevent losing coins/supplies from quests when you are at max capacity
No clue how often it happened but I suspect a lot of goods were been purchased through the wholesaler. I know someone who would daily by 1,000-2,000 T3 goods daily and they had a fairly standard town. There were some towns geared towards mass producing coins to supplement goods production.
Whether or not their approach to stop this is good or effective....well time will tell.
Simple economics:
ANY trade is 'fair' if both parties are satisfied with the deal being made. Works that way in real world as well as here.
True, my idea of a fair trade may not be the same as another's, but does that make one of us right and the other wrong? I think not, it merely means we'll likely trade with dif groups, and that actually improves the market by making it wider. Indeed, there will be those of a differing opinion yet again, whose trade circle overlaps both the groups.
exactly. that's why its kind of annoying when someone has to constantly complain in the chat about two people who agree on a trade, or someone who accepts someone elses "unfair" trades without an agreement. It's got nothing to do with them and affects their gameplay in no way at all. It's kinda like two people in a relationship that's legal but morally isn't accepted by everyone...its got literally nothing to do with the people poking their noses in.
There's an edit button under every post you make. The "+quote" button on the right side below posts let's you add them to multi-quote, which you can then add by clicking the "Insert Quotes" button.
The rest of your post is just full of Ad Hominems again, which you could and should learn to do without. You could have just said; "I don't know how, so could you explain it", but instead you decide to go on the full offensive and make this odd attempt at attacking/trolling/flamebaiting.
I don't understand why you constantly feel the need to attack everyone, but I can guarantee you that it does not gain you any respect or goodwill.
Considering your posts in the suggestion thread (which were good), you obviously do not need to lower yourself that much. So really mate, not everyone here is trying to beat you down or attacking you when they tell you something or disagree with you.
Hope you take something worthwhile from this.
Please don't take the forum moderation upon yourself, but rather just report the post and ignore it for the rest. The forum moderation team will review the reports and take action where appropriate. Should you wish to hide a certain member's post, we can recommend the ignore feature the forum offers. You can access it via your profile on the forum.
I used the wholesaler to balance out my resources with excess coins and supplies I earned playing a few times per day and visiting everyone on my discovered field. Perhaps I will no longer visit every discovered player because I don't see the benefits for me in the new wholesaler.
That is a strategy you can pursue, of course. That's entirely up to you. You can also spend your Coins on some Knowledge Points, to gain some faster advancements in the research tree.
um what? we were all discussing the update and you just appear out of nowhere and make a dig out of me replying to people separately and not knowing how to multi quote. You don't know what an ad hominem even is I said this in the last topic. I've said it many times you are the one with the issue and you displayed this in the last topic. I'm just going to ignore you sorry but every conversation with you ends up like this. you just are antagonistic for no reason and I'm done with you
As i have already said i mainly used the wholesaler to unload my main hall of coins and supplies when limits were reached but it was also the only way i could get some of my non boosted goods as there seems to be a shortage of certain goods. I constantly find myself short of steel and planks and when i look in the trader most of the time all the trades for steel demand planks and it is not very often i see people wanting to get rid of planks. It is the same thing with my t2 and t3 goods as well so Inno are trying to make me use a trader that does not even have what i need.
I do think this move by Inno is going to force more people to start up new cities to try to help with goods they do not have. One of the people in my fellowship has already done it to get steel boosted and was lucky enough to get it on his first attempt and i am contemplating doint the same thing to try and get planks as boosted. I have a lot of different email addresses so i could try a lot of times until i get it.
At the end of the day Inno have made this change and we are going to have to live with it and they are probably just thinking ok so the players don't like it, tough we can just let them vent all they want on the forum and ignore it for a week or two and then they will shut up and stop complaining and we can go back to normal and think of another way to screw them all up.
If the trade you want is not on the market yet, consider adding your own. Trades are usually very likely to be accepted. It might not always be instantaneous, so plan ahead and gather the resources before you need them.
The fact that players even have to rely on the rng in the first place is just inexcusable. In my suggestions topic one of the things I suggested was the ability to just choose your boosts upon creation. Most of the suggestions I have made in that topic are things that directly affect the UI (like easier implementation of neighbourly help, rotation/temp storage of buildings while reorganizing your city), and would make the gameplay itself far more enjoyable and have naff all to do with diamonds or costs of things, yet all they seem to be focused on is money. they should improve their actual game first and how it functions/balances before acting like its perfect and only caring about diamonds.
pretty much. The main issue that can be summed up is Innogames wants us to play their way and their way only. They reckon it would ruin our fun if they implemented any of our suggestions, which is obviously not true. If we were all having a blast and loving the game so much why are multiple people complaining about things lol. I would say to inno...No...it would ruin YOUR idea of fun ... but "the customer always comes first".
It reminds me of a parent forcing their son/daughter to live out their life the way they want them to(possibly what they wanted to become but failed), but the kid has their own dreams, not his parents dreams
As also pointed out before, we do implement players' ideas, just not always in the way they were suggested. We strive to find the underlying problems and solve these in the ways we deem best for our game. Sometimes this is the same as a player suggested, but often it is also in different ways. Still, the problem gets solved in the end. So, community feedback is in fact listened to, but it might be hard to see from time to time.
There was a similar thread to this one talking about the changes that have been made, mainly the wholesaler and Muf0Muf has closed it to "keep the discussion in one place". Never commented on anything that was said just said thank you for the feedback. I wonder if he now realises that there is no real defence for this ludicrous change. Somewhere earlier in this thread he told me "we are here now and we are here to stay". Doesn't look that way from your silence Muf-Muf.
ve been playing this game for over a year now , i found it enjoyable at first but with all the changes the fun factor has pretty much been destroyed for me , fighting is so onesided its not worth the trouble , trade is now messed up , the game has become a dull and very expensive drag.
I have been on the cusp of ditching this game for a while but i was undecided hoping it would change for the better , these changes have now made my mind up , its only ever going to go downhill , time to find something i can enjoy .
Inno can keep my diamonds they are pretty worthless now anyway , the good thing is i now know not to waste any future time and effort by choosing another Inno product
We're sad to hear that you feel like this, but we do like that we have already been entertaining you for over a year. What would you like to see in our game?
My idea of a game is it should be fun and one should feel I have enjoyed myself playing this session.
Being honest that feeling went out the window already some changes ago, in August 2016 -The Battle Redesign.
I love to build, trade and I loved once the npc fights, must say I have really enjoyed play the game.
But it become less and less so specially with this very.. not sure how to express it, "not game friendly changes", "stupied changes", "we don't want you to enjoy playing out game changes".. many names.
I stop grow my barrack, armory, I have even tear down 2 armory as I see no point of have 3 of them anymore. First I thougth that when I reach at some point in the research (in 1/3 part of Wisdom and Wonders) I would be able to have enought fighters to win over the npc would happen, but nawww it's so far off.
Not sure if it different for the gamers who have played long time, more then 1,5 year or so. Rest of us new grow very very slow by playing without diamonds, just pure playing, again it start to feel more like an yoke heavy on my shoulders. ..
Now the Wholesaler changes.. whooa.. sometimes I wish just to exchange my 20 iron to 20 marble, it's my stuff so why am I not allowed to do that.. whom will it harm? Have you even thought of the new players in the game, you make if very very difficult for them, honestly whom come up with this idea.. really.. shame on you.
Still I will go on play the game but whitout any goal in the horizon as it seems to far fatched, also not log in more then couple of times /week, not like everyday and couple of time each day.. it was this was the last straw imo.
Thanks Innogames for creating this wonderful game, it was once a pleasure to play.
Building, trading and fighting are all still possible in Elvenar. A few updates ago, we implemented a number of improvements to the visualization of strenghts and weaknesses in battles, which should help you pick the right units for the job for any fight. Have you already given those a try?
Soggy Shorts has come up with some very good ideas for the trader if you can get onto the Beta forum, its on the thread Trader - A truly dynamic Wholesaler. Inno said when they first withdrew the revised wholesaler from Beta last year that when it came back that was it - it was staying so really the best hope is for some useful suggestions such as Soggys so it can be modified to all our benefit. I am hoping there will be a poll on this subject if it gets enough support.
One idea for the wholesaler is to only have it open at set times of the day and have the item values/price the same as before the update. (Probably a bad idea I know). If players need resources in between opening times they will be forced to trade between each other or sit on their hands and wait.
This would then make players trade between each other (something Inno want players to do)
AND
We get the decent version of Wholesaler back!
What about people in different timezones? And, isn't this just the same thing we had (which needed changing for many reasons - please scroll up for a list of them), just less convenient and more restrictive? Not sure if this would be the best or even better way to go.
The reply I received concerning the wholesaler stated it was to make the game more user friendly and that the BETA group had requested this via there feedback.
On the BETA forum there is now a petition to revert back to the old wholesaler so it obviously not all BETA players wanted those changes.
We have had one of the more established members of our fellowship quit already. Others are thinking of it.
If the idea was to force players to make trades it has not worked. Trading has not improved and first impressions so far is that trading for goods that I wanted to trade for before the changes is now even more difficult.
In almost every case when I look for a demand for my boosted goods I cannot find anyone requesting my goods or offering what I need for those goods.
The most difficult good to acquire in my opinion is Marble and Crystal. Many players relied on the wholesaler because these goods were unavailable for trade
The wholesaler was also a useful tool when the Main Hall reached maximum capacity and it was necessary to purchase some goods so they could continue with neighborly help. Now the cost of using this tool so you can continue your visit is too expensive. For now on when I reach capacity in the Main Hall I will only spend enough coins to visit those who have visited me already.
The wholesalers also served a very useful purpose by allowing players to overstock in their non boosted basic goods and to a less extent the other types of good. Players therefore were more willing to trade the goods they had purchased in the wholesaler for other goods. The newer version of the wholesalers has all but eliminated this strategy.
In my opinion this change makes me think of what is happening in the US today. Protectionism. Everyone will be holding on to what they have because it will be too expensive to trade with the Wholesaler (Foreigner) so they will need to rely on their own little world. My world is like my felllowship. There are a few people I can trade with but the majority of the players either do not produce what I need or they only produce enough for their own needs. My only alternative to get what I need is now too expensive.
I would not be surprised if I leave the game because it will soon be too frustrating to try and get the goods I need to play. I am noticing that is far more difficult already. My trades were sometimes accepted before I could finish placing all of them. Now I wait for hours and some never get accepted at all. All my trades are 2 and 3 star. That must tell you something
In November we launched a new Wholesaler, which was more restrictive than the current one. This was perceived with a lot of negative feedback and constructive critisicm. We have taken the feedback we received from our Beta community, and came up with a new, changed design. For the time being we reverted the changes on Beta (the ones done in November) to the old Wholesaler, and we decided to not roll out the new design to our international worlds yet. We then also posted our plans for the new Wholesaler design (check here for details), and that is the Wholesaler we have now.
There's a lot going on in this thread - so this is about the wholesaler changes and somewhat about tournaments. It's also a half response to Mykan who can't be bothered to find the original quote, so in the same spirit, neither can I.
Here's how the changes in the wholesaler affect me.
In Winyandor, where I am approaching the end of the dwarf chapter, with Main Hall at lvl 17, 10 tier 1, 6 tier 11 and 3 tier III:
As I can no longer use excess coin to buy large quantities of non boosted Tier I goods:
I will no longer be aiming to complete 3 provinces in a tournament, I'll stick to 1.
I'll focus on my own boosted good relics.
I won't be accepting any kind of cross tier trades.
I will not pay in anything other than my own boosted.
I will not be helping out 'new' players.
I will limit my visiting to Fellows ship and neighbours who have visited me.
I will expect a lot more 3 star trades during "times of shortage".
As my Main Hall is at capacity, I will not be visiting Non Fs or non visiting neighbours.
I will think about ditching half my manufactories and building non boosted (I may well have to find a new FS if I do)
I will be logging on less.
I will be doing a lot more long production runs.
I will be ignoring quests that don't suit my immediate aim.
I will be racing up the research tree, doing the bare minimum to get to the end of chapters.
I will think a lot harder before accepting or placing a trade.
I may have to look for a new fellowship, but I won't be alone.
The changes unfortunately will not stop cross tier trading. It won't stop small players from having difficulty obtaining small quantities. It won't stop players from holding multiple accounts in order to deal with Tier I shortages. It won't encourage neighbourly help and cooperation. It won't encourage players to stay in the game. It won't encourage players to participate in tournaments and quests. It won't stop over expansion. It won't stop players from racing ahead too fast (it will in fact, now leave those of us who can't win a fight, with little else to do). It won't help players with no fellowship. It won't help players who are surrounded by inactive players and cross tier traders. (My situation in Arndyll) . It won't help fellowships as it encourages players to look after their own interests first. It won't help quest completion. It is a seriously counter productive move if you want to keep this game social, interactive and more about cooperation than about "winning" (there's nothing to win) and ranking points.
Short term, more diamonds may be spent.
I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.
If the cost of running this game is the issue, what about coming clean? There must be multiple ways of dealing with this, from two tier memberships to crowd funding to advertising to voluntary donations....
also they don't care about any of their players from what I have seen they have been doing things to piss off both new and old players, and refuse to make gameplay changes that an overwhelming amount of people want because its not their idea of how the game should be played. sigh
timezones. depending on where you live it could be open when you're asleep and closed when you are awake...so yes not a great idea imo
possibly another (sorry if this comment confuses you. it refers to an earlier prediction I made about people leaving the game. of course a small majority on here refused to accept it, claiming I was the only person in the world who felt like this and my attitude was toxic. ive counted 5 people on here already and heard of others in fellowships that have quit already, and someone has even created a petition. I really don't know why innogames are in denial about everything
Earlier today we received feedback that we are "not responding to all answers" and that we are only answering to a selection of posts. For this one time, I am taking the time to show you why we work like that. Enjoy the read.
I dont even know where to begin with this. I read the whole thing and felt pretty exhausted after it. You condensed my posts into one yet this post is ten times longer than anything I have ever created and it would be so tedious to address all the individual things you nitpicked at with everyone not just me. I mean clicking quote post on this comment already exceeds the maximum character limit so how are people meant to even reply to your individual points without creating multiple posts themselves? I'll say just a few things about this though that need to be said...
1) Sorry but all I see here is waves and waves of you telling everyone else they're wrong or mistaken. Not once did I see an apology or anything that would show you think you might have made a mistake and would be willing to consider reversing previous actions that have stirred up the player base.
2) Condescending almost everyone by a) telling them you care, b) that nothing is wrong with your decisions when they feel adamant that is not the case, or c) offering people to suggest things they have done repeatedly that you have no intention of implementing, d) blaming them for innogames mistakes
3) A bunch of hypocritical statements (for example talking about less sarcasm from people then using it yourself multiple times).
4) You say you know what balance is yet your game allows people to negotiate far further than battling can. If this was balanced BOTH forms of completing an encounter would be impossible to do. There are many other reasons why you don't understand balance that have been given by other people here
5) Let me remind you several people have openly admitting already leaving the game or will be doing so, and there is apparently a petition in motion to counter one of your decisions you just said you were adamant is right. You can continue to ignore peoples concerns and be in denial about anything that is wrong with the game or actually listen and at the very least try their suggestions out. If they don't work then at least you tried. In fact since you agreed with me that there were things wrong with this game that you are working on let me put this another way...tell me what you yourself think is wrong with the game that is important enough to focus your efforts on, instead of asking people to suggest things you wont change. I'm sure people here would be imterested to know what you actually think is wrong with the game that needs addressing asap. This is usually done through updates and since this thread is about everyone complaining about changes in another update do you think that is co-incidental.
6) In my opinion Innogames as a whole feels their core game is borderline perfection and are in denial about the real problems of the game. They also feel everyone should play it their way and force them to play their way regardless of what their players feel about this. The sheer arrogance of this is obnoxious as far as I am concerned.
7) You agreed with us for once saying that trades are the individuals choice. However you then followed that up with a statement that nobody can or will force you to accept a trade in this game, which is false. Since you don't seem to be aware...almost every fellowship in the game will expel you if you list an unfair trade or a fair cross trade, or at the very least repeatedly warn you until expulsion. Also if you're not accepting the FS trades and accepting neighbour trades most of the time they would probably have the same view.
8) Censoring people because they have a different opinion to your own doesn't ever garner respect. You only lose it in my opinion.
9) Freedom of choice is an illusion sometimes in life, and I feel there is a pretty strong undercurrent of that in many facets of this game at the moment. That being said it doesn't have to stay that way does it?
10) Before you misunderstand anything I am saying with pure negativity I would urge you to re consider. There is a difference between that and constructive criticism. I like the potential the game has and it's just frustrating and disappointing to see so many bad decisions being made and no responsibility being taken for them, or any apologetic nature. I went out of my way to post a pretty large suggestions thread like others have done. If I didn't like the game I wouldn't be here, and it would be uninstalled and I would never visit this forum again it's as simple as that. Many others have already taken this drastic step because they're clearly fed up. Nobody does that over one minor thing but rather repeated decisions that they have had enough of
Once there was a game called Anno (dead in my eyes) which they messed around with premium currency and other things. Now the game is no longer being maintained. (less than 1 year later). Very similar community team, support structure and EXACTLY the same nonsense responses on the forums to suggestions and feedback etc etc. Nothing got done to enhance the playing experience from all the player input they asked for it just went downhill rapidly. Soon as they have a drop in new users buying premium currency it will be shut down for good. Old players have left or pretty much stopped spending on it. Just feels like the same is gonna happen here shortly!
@Muf-Muf thanks for your replies. In regards to the wholesaler opening/closing. It could be open every other hour. So it would accommodate all time zones. Not just opened once a day. Upping prices each time doesn't encourage trade between players. If the correct trades where there listed in the first place people would take them instead of using the wholesaler. Wholesaler is just useful to get rid of coins/supplies to get a little more EXTRA resource ON TOP of what you have already traded with other players.
