Stucon
Illusionist
based on what?nearly negligible small.
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based on what?nearly negligible small.
based on what?
... @Herodite : Thank you so much for your quick and very helpful response. I am grateful, and also impressed, as I know from past conversations on several of the Inno Forums that it's not always easy for Moderators to get an answer to Forum posters' questions. You do a sterling job on our behalf.@Laurelin Just an update to your query! There are still some cities yet to be moved so this will be ongoing. "Normal" Service won't be resuming just yet
... Indeed![...]Herodite you've been doing a herculean effort explaining this major shift in game playing when a full explanation should of been provided by Inno.
[...] Don´t see what´s wrong with a better game though. [...] the percentage of players with a negative outcome of the move is nearly negligible small.
@Gargon667 : I've re-quoted the immediately preceding comments (by yourself and @Stucon) because I'd also like to bring up this particular point - with the context being your previous posts in this thread, which I'm sure I need not quote in full...?based on what?
Is your comment here based upon educated guesswork and/or personal observation or upon knowledge I personally don't have, whether from staff on other Forums, from Inno insiders, or from anywhere else of an official nature? According to my own experience (see above), only 10-20% of the formerly inactive Cities in my own Neighbourhood have been removed [so far], with the rest being still in place, and the very large majority of those moved in are already inactive, as well as being small Cities - most at the 'one Residence, one Workshop' stage, and the rest well below Chapter V. This is actually fewer than the typical number of dead Cities removed during an ordinary once-weekly move - what I'm seeing in greater numbers is the removal (presumably elsewhere on the Map, not into storage) of active larger Cities and their replacement with tiny, mostly-dead Cities.Dont be suprised if 30-60% of all accounts in existence got cleaned up or have been put into storage.
I've already said it above, but the usual 'standard' level of activity drop-off leading to cessation of play - i.e. around 5-10% per week of Cities in any given Neighbourhood where I have been located - has been far exceeded, at present, by the noticeable and comparatively abrupt cessation of activity, specifically during the days following the recent/ongoing 'Big Move', by around 50-60% of my formerly active, and mid-to-large-sized, Trading/visiting Neighbours. Therefore, and based upon my own experience, I do not share your confidence that InnoGames has suddenly removed "30-60 % of all [inactive] accounts in existence".A lot of people stopped in the past 6 years
Again, though, I will ask : @CrazyWizard - and also @Gargon667, since both of you seem to be speaking in very confident and also highly generalised terms on the subject of how the Map move system works and also how it affects the majority of players- do either/both of you have confirmed knowledge which I and/or other players don't have, upon which you are wholly or partly basing your views as stated in this thread...? (NB: I'm not asking you to state that knowledge, or your sources, here - I'd just love to know yes/no, being thenosyenquiring person I am!)
I'm trying to remember the context, but I'm fairly sure you've never said anything offensive. I usually agree with what you say. Occasionally not, but that's just discussion.May I direct my sincere apologies @Hekata, @Pauly7, and indeed @ anyone at all who may have thought (and I'm not assuming that either of you actually did think this - but it seems possible?) that I was aiming personally at them, or at anyone else, ANY of the comments and/or arguments made in my veeerrrryy long post way back in this thread on the subject of why I think it is that Free-to-Play games - certainly nowadays, even if for other reasons in the past - offer (and often heavily promote) the option for players to join, and remain in, Fellowships or any other in-game groups.
That is never an indicator.At first I wasn't sure I moved, just my neighbours. I'm still 2 rings from the edge of the map in one direction. When I check in a second direction I've scouted past the "active" zone. While not as bad as the situations you've descripted Laurelin I will be definitely leaving my move button on when it gets reinstated as I'm in a worst corner of the map. I estimate at least 25% of my new neighbors are inactive. As for trading, I have 3 pages of 2 star and 8 pages of 1 star trades available.
I'm still wondering what motived InNo to correct this after 5 years. There must be a part 2 to come.
I think I was making the point that I don't think anyone is going to keep playing any online game for 2, 3, 4, 5 years, if it weren't for the fact that they had joined some sort of social group, made friends and probably built up some sort of mutual reliance. There isn't any other game that I've played for longer than a month. That's nothing much to do with the quality of the game itself.
Can´t speak for the wiz, but I am nit doing anything half as fancy as you areI am basing all I say on very simple low-tech (say high school level) geometry. And certainly nothing as inaccurate as what people say. And yes definitely highly generalized! That´s the point, I speak of players in general, while a small amount of individuals can absolutely and most certainly differ from what is happening in general.
The map is built as a circle. The edge of the circle is always negligible compared to the area of the circle as long as the circle is sufficiently big, and here goes my assumption: the circle is sufficiently big.
People that are in the circle don´t get moved, they only get additional active towns. People that get moved into the circle get an improvement.
People that get moved from the outskirts to the edge or people that used to be part of the center, but end up on the edge because the circle shrunk (because of the removal of the inactives) can potentially (not all of them) have a worse situation than before. The number people experiencing an actual deterioration is therefore a very small percentage of all players.
The vast majority of people complaining are not complaining about a worse map position, they complain about change in general and about losing people they liked, both things that actually happened, but have nothing to do with the quality of their previous and current map positions.
I understand that generalisation can make things easier and simpler to make decisions. Unfortunately, there’re dangers that come with it:
1. Discrimination – the minorities need to at least have a say as there can be an easy solution to their problem, a lot of them even suggest solutions to their problems so it is possible to make everyone happy.
2. Lack of Progress – usually new progressive ideas come from minorities. From people that think differently. Unfortunately, these people need to fight to be heard and I don’t believe that it should be the case.
That’s why I believe that it’s important for people to voice their unhappiness with the move so things can be fixed properly. Also, it does help to accept things when we’re at least heard and considered.
And yes, we’re hard wired not to like change. There’s a good reason for it. To accept change, we need to be sure that it’s a good thing because one small change can create a chain reaction of bad outcomes. Change needs to get analysed as much as we can to make sure that the desired outcome is achieved. Once we know that the change is good, it makes up for the bad feeling.
Again, open discussion of all opinions and circumstances of everyone that wants to say how the world map view affects them is important.
it is possible to make everyone happy.
Unfortunately, these people need to fight to be heard and I don’t believe that it should be the case.
And yes, we’re hard wired not to like change. There’s a good reason for it. To accept change, we need to be sure that it’s a good thing because one small change can create a chain reaction of bad outcomes. Change needs to get analysed as much as we can to make sure that the desired outcome is achieved. Once we know that the change is good, it makes up for the bad feeling.
Again, open discussion of all opinions and circumstances of everyone that wants to say how the world map view affects them is important.
At the risk of getting back on topic, the last move /clean out Of felyndal has left a bunch of empty spaces around me, and my partner, and presumably others. The algorithm is BROKEN folks. The empty spaces don't trade, polish or chat. Been like it for several days, support say nothing they can do, Not happy!!
I don´t disagree with the general idea, but I may have a bit of a different perspective on it:
That is most definitely not possible, it has never happened and it will never happen, but I agree it is possible to make more people happy.
I don´t see it as a bad thing, if you have to fight for your ideas. It is part of the screening process. This is the internet, there is no lack of ideas, the problem is to sort the gold from the garbage. An idea that isn´t worth fighting for is not likely to be among the gold nuggets. I certainly am not going to live long enough to be able to listen to the 1 million and 17 ideas out there on every single problem that exists. It is already a big enough job to listen to the good ideas and somehow it has to be decided which are worth listening to and which are not... Willingness to fight for it is of course no guarantee for quality (just think of all the fanatics out there), but the lack of it certainly also says something.
My understanding of democracy may be different from yours, though. I think you have the right to say what you want and you can argue for it as much as you want. Democracy doesn´t mean that everybody has to listen to the first thought that goes through your mind when you wake up in the morning. As much as you have right to argue for your ideas has everybody else the right to oppose your ideas (otherwise you would be the king of the world, which is certainly not something I would agree with). And in a rational world the one with the better arguments would win. Of course that is unrealistic where humans are involved but it is at least an ideal to aim for until somebody comes up with a better alternative.
Thinking about it I don´t even think the alternative to fighting for your idea is that everybody is going to be listened to, I think the alternative would be that you say what you want and everybody else ignores you.
Now that is exactly what we are doing: We analyzed the change and the result of this analysis is that the change IS good. This is the one and only thing we argue for the entire time. And absolutely nobody said your are not allowed to say how you feel about it. Everybody does all the time, nobody minds, all we do is put the facts on the table that the change IS good for nearlt everybody! We also acknowledge the fact that a very small minority of exceptions exist. And I am very happy to discuss any solution to helping this minority as well as long as it doesn´t negate the huge benefit to nearly everybody.