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The 19th Chest Prize in tournament

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Gargon667

Mentor
I´m not saying a super reward (could be a memorial of heroes, a lotus building, a 30 KP instant), but as I said above, something better than the useless stuff INNO gives now for every extra chest won from 11-19th province, and if this could be another blue print/artifact/wishing well would make this game even more interesting, fun and valuable to play, making fellowships capable to aspire to something better and worth playing in tournaments, not just stying in the 10th chest and don´t go further.
I´m totally sure this will be done in some time in the future, and the same goes for the spire, I´m sure they (inno) will make more levels and give better rewards in it.

To me, if this ever happen, would make the game more entertaining and fun, and in the end is justice my friend.

I don´t know you are saying two entirely opposite things here. If you are happy with a 30 KP instant instead of the 10er, I am with you. Sure why not would be a nice gesture for a good achievement, but nothing worth making a big fuss about.

A second blueprint on the other side is way out of proportion, definitely a no from me. I don´t see that happen any time soon, probably never. Read the announcement when they introduced the new chests. They posted a reason why they were adding them. Handing out more rewards was not it ;)
And the whole tourney nerf had a reason, rewards in the old tourneys were too easy to achieve. I don´t see them handing out free blueprints (or similarly valuable things). They would just have to nerf the tourney again to make it more difficult.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Wow, OK I only skim-read most of that, but here's the situation:

The main tournament pinnacle is designed to be the 10th chest. This is where the reward lies. There was never an intention to stretch it further than that because the devs (+95% of the players) don't wish extra stress to be placed on players being asked loads more by their teams. If there was an incredible prize in the 19th chest then that would be the new target that everyone would push their players towards.

Nonetheless, some of the highest scoring fellowships were asking for better tracking of the high-end scores. These are the teams that go way above, purely for the sake of competition with other similar fellowships. So to accommodate this request they introduced chests 11-19. They are purely there for score tracking. There was never an intention for people to be rewarded for opening them... and yet, you are lucky... because there is still a KP instant and an RR in each one. These prizes were very purposefully made nominal only.

So these players should just be happy with the fact that they've had a request implemented, but apparently not always - because it's some of these same players who are suddenly furious because 9 more chests have been introduced that they don't get amazing prizes for. There's no winning.

There are two choices - If you are doing it for the rewards then stop after the 10th chest. If you are doing it for the glory then continue... but don't try to have your cake and eat it.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
Read the announcement when they introduced the new chests. They posted a reason why they were adding them. Handing out more rewards was not it
Well Inno also announced that they won´t touch the tournament when the Spire was introduced and look where we´re now, devs change their mind as fast as their wallets are getting emptying, so, if in the near future a big reward in the 19th tournament and/or another level in the Spire promote more interaction, constancy and a potencial buying of diamonds (or buildings and premium expansions) from the fellowships in the game they surely will apply this, no doubt about it. :)
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
I don´t know you are saying two entirely opposite things here. If you are happy with a 30 KP instant instead of the 10er, I am with you. Sure why not would be a nice gesture for a good achievement, but nothing worth making a big fuss about.
Fine, you understand now what I´m talking about, a fellowship that reach the 19th chest must have something special cause this achievement takes lot of effort, preparation and sacrifices, not only for the duration of the tournament, but for, sometimes, years to reach that level (that someone who now sees the results of those years of hard working, think is easy and they don´t deserve nothing for their hard work).
 
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DeletedUser501

Enchanter
A second blueprint on the other side is way out of proportion, definitely a no from me. I don´t see that happen any time soon, probably never. Read the announcement when they introduced the new chests. They posted a reason why they were adding them. Handing out more rewards was not it ;)
And the whole tourney nerf had a reason, rewards in the old tourneys were too easy to achieve. I don´t see them handing out free blueprints (or similarly valuable things). They would just have to nerf the tourney again to make it more difficult.
Another blueprint is so logical in the same level and comparison as if the Spire got another level and the top of it would give you, let´s say 300 more diamonds, it would be the same and even more deserved in the tournament due to its greater difficulty my friend

I won´t discuss about the new tourney since this must be discuss in the respective thread about it, but I don´t agree with your posture about it, this new tournament is more an offense than anything.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
So these players should just be happy with the fact that they've had a request implemented, but apparently not always - because it's some of these same players who are suddenly furious because 9 more chests have been introduced that they don't get amazing prizes for. There's no winning.
Well, things changed, when Inno introduced the new tournament this changed everything, so if before all was gravitating around the 10th chest and a blue print, when they changed tournament system and talked that fellowships would be benefied having another 9 chest and making the tournament easier for casual and semi-casual fellowships to get the 10th chest and the blueprint,the center of gravity changed, cause it turned to be that now, the 10th was a chesse cake nothing relevant in comparion of getting the 19th chest, so it is logical that if now, being the 19th more difficult to achieve, the reward for it ( as before was the 10th chest) be a plus, a gift, a very well deserved reward.

I don´t understand why many are against this propuse like you were getting robbed or something, do you know you also can get that 19th chest right? It would be cool that Elvenar congratulates a fellowship that reach that numbers in tournament in that great manner, is the least they can do by forcing this tournament that affected the top competing tournament FSs, making lot of fellows leave this game by that same reason, and, if this change see light, maybe they would come back.
 

Pauly7

Magus
I don´t understand why many are against this propuse like you were getting robbed or something, do you know you also can get that 19th chest right?
It's not about feeling robbed. It's about a consideration for the health of the game as a whole. For a long time prior to the introduction of the new tournament style, there were a small vocal number of people from the top-performing tournament fellowships, who were begging Inno to introduce new chests to make the tournaments more challenging. We had the same argument/debate back then, that it would be a bad thing if they did that because whatever the top chest was would become the natural goal for fellowships, so however it was dressed up no one would consider the 10 chest goal anymore.

So they introduced 9 more chests, but didn't reward people for opening them. That is one of the few Inno moves in recent times that I have been very much in support of. They managed to appease the people who wanted to score more points for fun, without making other teams start pressurising their players. As soon as they did this a few fellowships (like yours) opened 19 chests on the first week... and I was the first to congratulate you... but that should've been all it was about, but no sooner was it done then that wasn't enough for some people - we want some extra lovely treats for it too. It's not necessary. You don't need to open 19 chests. It's just there to compare yourself against other teams. Exactly the same as it was before except the high end scores are laid out better... and you do get a little treat for your trouble. That shouldn't matter though. If you are going above and beyond then it should just be about the achievement.

How about if they just put a medal on your fellowship summary page saying how many times you opened the 19th chest? Like with Spire medals.

On the subject of tournament ease / difficulty, I do agree that I think they have made it way too easy on the lower end. I don't think I can lose an encounter in the first 10 provinces if I tried to. Even if you support the idea of making it much more accessible for the smaller/newer players then I think it is now just too accessible. The result of this is that opening 10 chests is now very easy for the majority of teams who are just a little bit organised. I think this is an entirely different topic though, and not a reason for giving out incredible prizes for teams scoring 160,000 points.
 

Autumn Goldleaf

Spellcaster
Settle down everyone please....
I must admit that I tend to slack off once the 10th chest is reached...
It would be nice to have a bit of incentive to keep going... Perhaps 2 Royal Restorations per chest from 11 onwards?
That way it's worth doing an extra chest or two?
 

Gargon667

Mentor
How about if they just put a medal on your fellowship summary page saying how many times you opened the 19th chest? Like with Spire medals.

I like that idea :)

On the subject of tournament ease / difficulty, I do agree that I think they have made it way too easy on the lower end. I don't think I can lose an encounter in the first 10 provinces if I tried to. Even if you support the idea of making it much more accessible for the smaller/newer players then I think it is now just too accessible. The result of this is that opening 10 chests is now very easy for the majority of teams who are just a little bit organised. I think this is an entirely different topic though, and not a reason for giving out incredible prizes for teams scoring 160,000 points.

I agree that the early part of tourneys is for dummies now. However it is in line with general Inno policy, to make the game playable by dummies, so I don´t think it is a fight worth wasting time on, it is not an accident, it is intentional and we all know how likely it is that Inno does something players want if it goes against Inno´s ideas.
Connected to the reduced difficulty is the effort independent and random prizes. Meaning no matter how "good" or "bad" you are at playing you get nearly the same random prizes. I assume Inno does that to make balancing easier for themselves? If everybody gets the same, balancing isn´t necessary at all.

Some examples:
- Self-finishing events with randomized prizes. No matter if you plan and put in effort or just let the event finish itself you get the same prizes out of it in the end.
- tourney: impossible to not be able to do the first 10 or so provinces, much more difficult for high achievers. so an increase in rewards for low achievers and a reduction for high achievers, which makes personal rewards get much more similar no matter what level of effort. Team rewards have become the same for every semi-active FS, because 10 chests are now a dummy exercise and there are no rewards to speak of past this point.
 

Herodite

Forum mod extraordinaire
Elvenar Team
Greetings Guys, I must say 19 Chests is an impressive achievement! I believe this has been mentioned previously in the thread but i'll touch on it again, for all intents and purposes the actual Tournament is a 10 Chest effort. However the Devs were aware that some of the Hardcore FS's would want to compete to surpass this and that's where the additional Bonus Chests were introduced. They were designed to be more challenging then the previous chests however would still carry a prize for achieving these in addition to Tourney Ranking Points. What the Devs did not want, is to increase the amount of Chests required to "complete" the Tourney as it were. I'm reminded of how some months ago, the overall opinion was that the Tourney had become far too difficult beyond a certain point and 10 Chests was potentially unachievable for Higher Ranking Fellowships?
It is the choice of Fellowships if they wish to compete for Tournament Greatness, above and beyond that of the 10 Chests. However the Devs will not be looking to award anything further than what they currently do for the Bonus Chests. Whether that changes in the future I cannot be sure but it's certainly not something that they're looking to do at the moment.

Kind Regards

Herodite.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
I'm reminded of how some months ago, the overall opinion was that the Tourney had become far too difficult beyond a certain point and 10 Chests was potentially unachievable for Higher Ranking Fellowships?

I doubt that very much. Which high ranking FS has trouble getting 10 chests?
We all know that the number of FS achieving 10 chests has exploded since the new tourneys started, instead of 10 or 20 FS getting there, we have now 50 FS!

People say that for high ranking players tourneys have become much more difficult. People somewhere above the 5k points mark, so if you take 25 towns with 5k points a week is a FS that has 15 or so chests, not in trouble doing 10 lol.

Even saying that, the real problem is not that the tourney is too difficult (btw I personally find it too easy still, but taking that discussion is rather pointless), the problem is that progress is being punished once a certain amount of progress is achieved.
 

Pauly7

Magus
We all know that the number of FS achieving 10 chests has exploded since the new tourneys started, instead of 10 or 20 FS getting there, we have now 50 FS!
If you have 25 players that would like to open the 10th tournament chest, then they do - simple. The only exception to this would be if your fellowship is made up of players small enough that they do not yet have 6 or 7 of each province type available.
 

Timneh

Artisan
When the extra chests were introduced it was made clear that they were not meant to be easy to get The devs obviously think the rewards for doing all 19 chests are good enough or they would have put something different in them before they were introduced. As has already been said, if you are unhappy with the rewards for doing 19 chests then don't do 19 chests.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
I'd be interested to know how many FS are regularly getting that 19th chest.

We have a certain number of FA per year where there are rewards for those who get the most points, but those prizes are limited in number by how many FA in each year. If the same FS are regularly getting the 19th chest then should Inno reward them with a special prize which they could, in effect, gain every week?
There are very few fellowships that reach the enough points to get the 19th chest, that´s why this is a big achievement, none get this so easily.
The fellowships that would win every tournament such well deserved reward would do this very often? Yes. Would they be envied? Yes.

But is the same argument I exposed before in terms of another level of the Spire and its respective top new reward when a FS reached this new top, cause Spire would definetely give another diamond quantity, let´s say 300 diamonds + all the common diamond prizes Spire already gives, so it will be logical that a spire that requires lot of effort from all the members from a Fellowship to reach that new top, could in fact get a extra reward in diamonds.
It would be the same in tournament, fellowships that reach that new top of 19 chests, should get another good reward as in a new spire top.
None is cheating nor taking advantage of anyone.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
It's not about feeling robbed. It's about a consideration for the health of the game as a whole. For a long time prior to the introduction of the new tournament style, there were a small vocal number of people from the top-performing tournament fellowships, who were begging Inno to introduce new chests to make the tournaments more challenging. We had the same argument/debate back then, that it would be a bad thing if they did that because whatever the top chest was would become the natural goal for fellowships, so however it was dressed up no one would consider the 10 chest goal anymore.
I always have respect your opinion Pauly, to me your arguments are always reasonable and sometimes neutral, but in many aspects of what you have said now I totally disagree.

First: Consideration is what Inno devs should have had of the fellowships that fixed and worked their cities to reach a good military level for years and all from sudden they suffered absurds changes that made many players leave the game. No having onsideration is that some fellowships leave everything by a suppose "prestige" but at the same time lose lot of time, clicks, planning, boosters to achieve a good result and they are not rewarded well because some players think that would be "too much", and would be offended that some players and FSs which works to achieve those results can get more then them.

We had the same argument/debate back then, that it would be a bad thing if they did that because whatever the top chest was would become the natural goal for fellowships, so however it was dressed up no one would consider the 10 chest goal anymore.
Well you can see Inno really don´t care and have no consideration of what we´re talking about now, either supporting my suggestion or not taking this into consideration as you impugn, and at the end they heard more to those few who wanted extra chests, which is cool since it is a big motivation to play their new tournament system that probably none would ever play it passing 10th chest if they hadn´t put those 9 extra chests, and probably many more fellowships that now do between 14-18 chests would play with extra motivation if something better lay in the last 19th chest. Who knows, maybe this would benefit to the game in general at the end.
So they introduced 9 more chests, but didn't reward people for opening them. That is one of the few Inno moves in recent times that I have been very much in support of. They managed to appease the people who wanted to score more points for fun, without making other teams start pressurising their players. As soon as they did this a few fellowships (like yours) opened 19 chests on the first week... and I was the first to congratulate you... but that should've been all it was about, but no sooner was it done then that wasn't enough for some people - we want some extra lovely treats for it too. It's not necessary. You don't need to open 19 chests. It's just there to compare yourself against other teams. Exactly the same as it was before except the high end scores are laid out better... and you do get a little treat for your trouble. That shouldn't matter though. If you are going above and beyond then it should just be about the achievement.
You´re forggeting all this new 9th extra chests happend in the bosom of a totally new tournament, with new rules, new goals, that many fellowships got affected very hard and others were very well benefied, so in this scenario, the main porpuse of playing tournament changed, like I said in some comments above, the gravity center change, now with extra 9th chest and a new tournament system should be a differente goal, and rewards, and why not, a new reward in the last 19th chest.
It would have been totally different if, as you said, these new chest would have been put in the old tournament system where the top and goal was the 10 chest+ 1 blue print. Do you get my point? Your argument is totally right but if we was in the old model, now that we´ve got another tournament, another rules (made by Inno itself, not by my FS or the fellowships that get the 19th chest) and that have been rumours of another level in the spire ( that, if implemented, would give totally another diamond quantity as the ultimate level reward), the implementation of a new good reward in the 19 chest is logical, well deserved and jutified my friend Pauly.

Again, Could I ask you and the people that think like you, Why it is not necessary this suggestion comes to light?
About your suggestion that we don´t need open the 19th chest and reach high in tournament, I can suggest you also the same but in a inverse way: You don´t need to stay only in the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th chest. Cause if there´s a possibility to get something better and you can get it, and even better, be rewarded in high for that such achivement and you can make it happen, someone is free to take it or change it if they like so in the bosom of freedom.
You´re totally free to work for a new reward in the19th chest, as you are totally free to do not.

"It's just there to compare yourself against other teams. Exactly the same as it was before except the high end scores are laid out better... "
In the old model the score and prestige was for that, now with the extra chests that they have introduced( and since they were introduced at the same time as tourney) changed all that aspect of the game, many were benefied and other affected, if Inno decides in the future implement a good new reward for the 19th chest this would affect only to those who think that we´re in the old model, and very few fellowships ( that won´t make any damage to the game) would be benefied. If that awakes envy, that won´t be the fault of those FSs since the new tournament was not its fault to get started.
 

DeletedUser501

Enchanter
How about if they just put a medal on your fellowship summary page saying how many times you opened the 19th chest? Like with Spire medals.
Well, basically I was asking something different for those very few that reach the 19th chest, so it would be cool that happend, but this also could be a banner building as in the FA, maybe a building 1x1 or 1x2 that gives some good culture or pop/culture. Also could be a bunch of RRs maybe another 20 at the last chest, maybe a set of military boosters ( which would be logical since the fellowships that reached that 19th should have spent lot of those for that achievement) 1MMM+1UUU+1ELR. But something different and relevant please.
 

Deleted User - 341074

Guest
Dude, it's right there:
What the Devs did not want, is to increase the amount of Chests required to "complete" the Tourney as it were.
If the 19th chest gave 3 x 5-day buildings then that would absolutely make 19 the new goal.

------------------------------------------

a banner building as in the FA, maybe a building 1x1 or 1x2 that gives some good culture or pop/culture.
Sure. Medals like the spire, token buildings like the FA, Ranking points for w/e. No problem.
a bunch of RRs maybe another 20 at the last chest, maybe a set of military boosters 1MMM+1UUU+1ELR.
God no.
 

Pauly7

Magus
Well, basically I was asking something different for those very few that reach the 19th chest, so it would be cool that happend, but this also could be a banner building as in the FA, maybe a building 1x1 or 1x2 that gives some good culture or pop/culture.
I think this would be fair, but this building would have to primarily be about the prestige, not about what it offers. The reason is that if you're winning one of these every single week then it couldn't be good enough to replace your other good pop/culture buildings as it would then create an imbalance for those people who were winning them all the time. Something with the stats of a Memorial of Heroes that served as a status symbol, would be absolutely fine, in my opinion.

Better still may be if they kept a four-weekly average of tournament scores, then gave one to the best three teams each month.
 

Timneh

Artisan
Why should people get a reward for doing something that they choose to do ? The target is 10 chests to get a blueprint and after that it is your FS choice to go further. The blueprint has always been the main goal of tournaments, the additional 9 chests are just because some players wanted more of a challenge so it is their choice to do those extra chests.
Climbing Mount Everest is very difficult and not very many people can do it but those that can do not get any reward. I can't think of many situations where people get rewarded for doing what they choose to do but i am sure there may be some.
 

Gargon667

Mentor
Again, Could I ask you and the people that think like you, Why it is not necessary this suggestion comes to light?
About your suggestion that we don´t need open the 19th chest and reach high in tournament, I can suggest you also the same but in a inverse way: You don´t need to stay only in the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th chest. Cause if there´s a possibility to get something better and you can get it, and even better, be rewarded in high for that such achivement and you can make it happen, someone is free to take it or change it if they like so in the bosom of freedom.
You´re totally free to work for a new reward in the19th chest, as you are totally free to do not.

What do you mean? it is in the light, we are discussing it openly, only so far I have seen nobody liking your idea.

Also your second point is not actually true. Everybody can do less than they do if there are no big rewards involved. But a lot of FS cannot do more than they do. Because of the limitation in their FS. Yes that can be changed by kicking out less productive towns and replacing them with more productive towns, but that just leads you back to the original reason why people don´t like this idea: They don´t want to be forced to kick out towns to achieve the big prize.


Well, basically I was asking something different for those very few that reach the 19th chest, so it would be cool that happend, but this also could be a banner building as in the FA, maybe a building 1x1 or 1x2 that gives some good culture or pop/culture. Also could be a bunch of RRs maybe another 20 at the last chest, maybe a set of military boosters ( which would be logical since the fellowships that reached that 19th should have spent lot of those for that achievement) 1MMM+1UUU+1ELR. But something different and relevant please.

Definitely a no. That would be a prize far better than a blueprint lol.
And in general no to any building: Far too easy to get many of them and that would mean it would be too good a prize if it was a good building. If the building was crap nobody would waste their space on it, so that would also be pointless. Better a badge that shows the achievement and does nothing than an invisible building gathering dust in an inventory.
 
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