Sentient trading observation

[foolfighter]

Just an observation, but being in both Arendyll and Winyandor, the sentient trading in Arendyll is appalling!. It is mainly 0-star and 1-star. Winyandor is much more "normal", so what is the problem in Arendyll? I understand the problems in that large quantities of sentient goods are needed for the tree task boxes and I realise sentient goods production can easily be restricted for various reasons, but the answer is not bad trading. Apart from the slowness of persuading enough others to accept your poor trades (daily decay is apparent in many of the trades offered) it is still very difficult to get sufficient of the goods required to avoid the effects of daily decay on your own stocks. Lots of time instants, manufacturing spells, a storm phoenix and a couple of hours every now and then is the way to do it - at least that's what works for me. I find sentient trade in Arendyll disappointing.

 

[Lelanya]

Agreed! We talk and talk and nothing changes. But if there are few fair trades it's because we trade with each other trying to balance for the Spire.

 

[m4rt1n]

2 maybe 3 players I could name but that would be against the rules constantly filling the market with horrendous 0* sentient trades on Arendyll, a button "block this trader" I would love on the server.

 

[cwgiii]

+1 for m4rt1n's idea

 

[Pauly7]

I prefer the idea of a filter, like the sentient filter or fellowship filter... Just check this box and you only see 2 and 3 star trades.

Either way I'm not as massively concerned as some people. I find the swathes of ridiculous trades slightly irksome, but they always appear at the bottom of the list and can be ignored. It's just a question of not liking to look at the "mess" for me.

Someone must be taking these trades, at least some of the time. If everyone always ignored them people would eventually tire of posting them.

 

[m4rt1n]

I prefer the idea of a filter, like the sentient filter or fellowship filter... Just check this box and you only see 2 and 3 star trades.

Either way I'm not as massively concerned as some people. I find the swathes of ridiculous trades slightly irksome, but they always appear at the bottom of the list and can be ignored. It's just a question of not liking to look at the "mess" for me.

Someone must be taking these trades, at least some of the time. If everyone always ignored them people would eventually tire of posting them.

I see them when I use the filter's. I often use both filters before placing my own trades so as to not flood the market, goods offered and goods demanded.

 

[cwgiii]

Someone must be taking these trades, at least some of the time. If everyone always ignored them people would eventually tire of posting them.

Unfortunately, there will always be a random mistake that takes one of these trades every now and then. Even if only 1% get taken this way, it is a windfall for the poster.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Either way I'm not as massively concerned as some people. I find the swathes of ridiculous trades slightly irksome, but they always appear at the bottom of the list and can be ignored. It's just a question of not liking to look at the "mess" for me.

Someone must be taking these trades, at least some of the time. If everyone always ignored them people would eventually tire of posting them.

That's it though, because the market manipulators have trades that can be seen a filter won't change things.
People will at best have the filter on, see nothing because those guys took all decent trades, and then turn the filter off and take those crap trades out of desperation.
The outright removal of anyone's ability to see anything under 2 stars outside of their fellowship will actually put a stop to the predatory trades and normal players who actually need to use those goods for something other than racking up the highest decay trophy will find what they need.

 

[Gargon667]

That's it though, because the market manipulators have trades that can be seen a filter won't change things.
People will at best have the filter on, see nothing because those guys took all decent trades, and then turn the filter off and take those crap trades out of desperation.
The outright removal of anyone's ability to see anything under 2 stars outside of their fellowship will actually put a stop to the predatory trades and normal players who actually need to use those goods for something other than racking up the highest decay trophy will find what they need.

Now either they are desperate and take crap trades or they are not, you can´t have it both ways

I personally don´t understand why anyone would be desperate enough to take a 0 star trade, but too cheap to post a 3 star trade themselves? It´s a far better deal!
I post all kinds of weird cross tier (and normal same tier) trades in all directions (of course always 3 stars) often offering tree gum, the least sought after of all sentient goods and have yet to post a trade that doesn´t get taken in a day, usually not by my FS (they have more than enough gum themselves). So why on earth would I ever bother taking a 1 or even 0 star trade? Other than by accident of course lol, but that is my fault for not being very careful in the trader...

 

[Pauly7]

I post all kinds of weird cross tier (and normal same tier) trades in all directions (of course always 3 stars) often offering tree gum, the least sought after of all sentient goods and have yet to post a trade that doesn´t get taken in a day, usually not by my FS (they have more than enough gum themselves). So why on earth would I ever bother taking a 1 or even 0 star trade? Other than by accident of course lol, but that is my fault for not being very careful in the trader...

Exactly. Not even a day. My sentient trades rarely sit there for more than half an hour.

 

[anonglitch]

2 maybe 3 players I could name but that would be against the rules constantly filling the market with horrendous 0* sentient trades on Arendyll, a button "block this trader" I would love on the server.

While this has been suggested before, we are going to check again with our developers It is a great idea!

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Now either they are desperate and take crap trades or they are not, you can´t have it both ways

Of course you can as a group in a market. It's like any sanction or boycott, if it's not universal and forced, it's useless.
If they fixed it so that no one could even see those 0-stars outside the FS then those market manipulators would stop buying up all of the fair trades since they could no longer profit by reposting them. In a very short time the markets would return much more robust.

I personally don´t understand why anyone would be desperate enough to take a 0 star trade, but too cheap to post a 3 star trade themselves? It´s a far better deal!

Decay is the reason.

1. Check the trader, see some 10% discount offers vs 25% ripoffs
2. Place 15% discount to get on top
3. Someone else posts 16% discounts taking your top spot
4. Decay 10% of your whole stash
5. Take posts down
6. Repost at 20% discount.
7. Get undercut again at 21%
8. Etc.

OR
Take the 25% rip-off that is being offered.
--------------------------------
Edit: I'm realising that it's possible EN doesn't have the same issues as all other servers: Do you have a market manipulator on each server who controls the majority of sentient transactions? Also, do you have an overabundance of bizmuth production due to excessive moonstone sets?

 

[BlueBlou]

@SoggyShorts , are you making arguments on what is happening on other servers? I am assuming that you play on the EN server and therefore would know what is happening here, or at least on the world you are playing here.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

@SoggyShorts , are you making arguments on what is happening on other servers? I am assuming that you play on the EN server and therefore would know what is happening here, or at least on the world you are playing here.

I'm discussing here, on the INTERNATIONAL forums. Inno doesn't implement changes on a per-server basis.

Most issues are identical on the US, DE, NL, and RU servers where I play more actively than the EN server where I basically just have an account to discuss things and get ideas/perspectives from around the world since these are marketed as the international forums.

 

[Lelanya]

@SoggyShorts
On Arendyll there is this one solo player who started out with one sentient factory and a Moonstone Library collection, 2 full sets and a host of Gates and Gum Trees. Player snaps up 3 star and reposts as 1 or 0 zero star trades.
There is a fellowship, used to be two, formerly led by a retired British footballer, that was deeply involved in the debate to get the trading system changed. This was about 4 and a half years ago and a couple of the number cruncher types 'proved', to Marindor (shortly before he switched with Muf-Muf), how and why the (then) current trading ratios were unfair. When we heard back we were told that no changes were in the cards at that time, but that advocacy would be ongoing. Aforementioned Archmage instituted a campaign to promote change by posting trades he thought were fair and sadly, spread this behavior to others. Same crew leapt happily into sentients with the same rationale, and even used decay to justify their bad trades. A couple of his crew still continue his legacy, even claim they're honoring his memory. Yet others have observed this behavior and pursue the strategy of acquisition of non boosted resources, and yes, do try to trade for whatever is scarce by offering ever increasing 3 star trades.

 

[Lelanya]

I will say again:
Take note of gougers
Never take their trades, even when they are 3 stars.
If we sanction them, eventually the behaviour will stop.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

I will say again:
Take note of gougers
Never take their trades, even when they are 3 stars.
If we sanction them, eventually the behaviour will stop.

idk about the stats for these forums, but on US they told us once that fewer than .02% of players visit the forums, so although players in chapters 12+ might be more likely to be in that group I don't think forum users could make an impact even if there was a total sanction from them.
Even all forum users + their FS would likely not be enough.

 

[Stucon]

I don't understand the issue with decay on trades.
If you set a 1000 for 1000 trade (2*), BOTH side decay at the same rate so they remain 2* trades.

 

[kimkimkim]

I will say again:
Take note of gougers
Never take their trades, even when they are 3 stars.
If we sanction them, eventually the behaviour will stop.

OMG please don't consider me a gouger....I always place 3 star sentient trades.....I could care less about the decay and I never never post 0 or 1 star trades in return

 

[Lelanya]

Oh let's see, how did that go? The stuff decays and we end up with less so might as well post trades to make up the difference. After all, if someone wants it bad enough they will pay a premium just short of decay to get it.

They don't understand folks who play with their heart or even just their gut. I feel good sharing extra with my friends, fellows, neighbors, and now by extension, my server. I feel angry if forced to accept bad trades. I want to put out good vibes, not bad ones.