Question Pilgrims Forge - other means to get it?

[sentimil]

Does anyone know of a way to get Pilgrim's Forge, other than through the Sorcerers Homecoming event? The unexpected and not warned for sudden limiting of the challenges to 1/day broke mine (and a few other players I know) plans on getting it. And we invested plenty of time, efforts and resources in these plans.

Yes, I know that some money / diamonds will buy me enough of sorcerers knowledge to get it. And yes, InnoGames definitely deserve to be rewarded for such an excellent game. However, this change without any advance warning feels like a dirty trick to shake some players for money. Rewarding IG exactly for such a trick feels like a no-go.

Any other ideas?

 

[Silmaril]

There are currently not any plans for this @sentimil, however as you know we do occasionally release in subsequent events.
It does sound as if you have caught up with the questline, having completed the story section and moved onto the episodic ones.
We can confirm that this should not be at all unexpected, we have operated our events in this way since 2019 and we always cover this in our Announcements here on the Forum as well as via the in game News Window. This format allows every player to have a set amount of quests to complete (in this event 75) and to all finish the event within a 24 hour period.
Hopefully with just under 3 days still to go, it will mean you secure the last piece.

 

[sentimil]

Thank you for the quick reaction, @Silmaril.

Unhappily, I play this game for only about 3 months, and don't have experience with limiting the frequency of the quests during the last several days. To the best of my eyes, the announcement you linked does not mention this anywhere, too - nor does any other announcement of yours. Nor I have seen it in any other game.

The reason for me posting this question is that me and most other players I know will not be able to secure the last piece, precisely because of this unexpected limitation. Turns out, every one of us planned the time so, doing the usual about 4-5 quests per day, will be able to complete 15-20 quests more in the last 4-5 days and thus secure the Forge. Naturally, this will be impossible with only 3 quests left, and all we appear to have decided to rule out any purchases from InnoGames until we see how it will handle this gaffe.

We all concluded that the personnel of InnoGames, having more experience than us, would know that many players will not know in advance about that unannounced frequency limiting, and would not take it into account while planning their strategies. Therefore, we could not think of any use of it, other than as a trick to shake these players for money. True or not, it appears to us to be the single believable explanation. :-(

I am really sorry to describe the situation in this way. It's just that I feel fair to you to convey the problem to you first, instead of just reacting publicly, like most affected players probably will. My experience has taught me that the ability to influence the others should go with fairness.

 

[Julian]

sentimil, even if you had not read the any of the accompanying announcements etc, the limit to the number of quests is evident. On the quest tab, look at the bottom and you will see a progress bar that goes up to 75. That gives the maximum number of quests you could do.

In the past, Inno have done unlimited quests. However, this has resulted in some players getting tons of prizes, which has unbalanced the game for others.

It sounds as if you are in a fellowship with no experienced players. Joining a good fellowship will aid you with this game no end.

 

[Silmaril]

We can confirm that the event quest types are mentioned in our Forum Announcement (underneath the New Leagues System), as well as in the Sorcerers' Homecoming Video (in the Announcement and also in your in game News) and of course our Wiki page all about the event (which can be located from the bottom right social icon in your game).
So we are sorry that you had not been aware of how our event questlines are staged in this way, with the 75 quests for this event.
Making the most of the Sorcerers' Knowledge that you find around your City, will give at least 30 a day, plus the additional 35 we give as a daily amount, plus the one a day quest you are on and the possibility of winning more as you open up the chests to progress (80-300). Should give a very good chance of obtaining the full set.
Please also know that as well as the fabulous help here on the Forum, if you are stuck in the game you are always most welcome to contact our wonderful Support Team, who are all players like yourself, who love Elvenar!

 

[Gargon667]

Unhappily, I play this game for only about 3 months, and don't have experience with limiting the frequency of the quests during the last several days. To the best of my eyes, the announcement you linked does not mention this anywhere, too - nor does any other announcement of yours. Nor I have seen it in any other game.

Here I quote the relevant part of the announcement for this event:

The questline consists of a story section and additional episodic quests, which start as soon as the story is completed. This means that you will be able to finish the first series of quests right away, while later quests have new additions released on a daily basis, allowing you to continue to play 1 additional event quest on each new event day

Therefore, we could not think of any use of it, other than as a trick to shake these players for money. True or not, it appears to us to be the single believable explanation. :-(

That is the generally agreed upon point of the league system (it was a new invention this event). Make money for Inno. Grand prizes are directly related to the league system as the both depend to 100% on the number of staffs you produce.

The reason for me posting this question is that me and most other players I know will not be able to secure the last piece, precisely because of this unexpected limitation. Turns out, every one of us planned the time so, doing the usual about 4-5 quests per day, will be able to complete 15-20 quests more in the last 4-5 days and thus secure the Forge. Naturally, this will be impossible with only 3 quests left, and all we appear to have decided to rule out any purchases from InnoGames until we see how it will handle this gaffe.

There is nothing you can do about the number of quests you get, everybody gets the same. Also the daily pickups as well as the collections around your town are fixed to a max number. So there is a simple maximum available event currency you can pick up. Collecting ALL of it does not guarantee a fully evolved building or as in this case a complete set.
However there are 2 things that actually decide whether you make it or not. Neither will help you now in this event, but it will help you in future events!
1. Luck! Yes, most people are annoyed by it, but it is the way it is: You need luck when opening chests that have a chance to receive extra event currency, or in this event Sorcerers knowledge in the beacons. If you have bad luck and never get any extra you will not make it. We are just now having a few very extensive discussions on that subject in other threads if you´re interested.
2. Strategy! Not every beacon produces an equal number of Staffs per invested event currency. If you want the full set you need to make an active choice to pick chests (or beacons) that grant a good ratio. Other beacons are better if you want a higher number of daily prizes, while even a third group of beacons can be preferable if you want other rewards (troops, instants, goods, etc). In any casse you need to actively chose the "correct" beacon for your goals.

As an example I believe I have had neither especially good nor bad luck this event, since I seem to be roughly in the middle of the results other players have posted. But I did focus 100% on the best beacons for the grand prizes. And I have already managed a full set. The margin is small though, since I have only just received the last piece and we have only 3 days left. So I will not go much further than that.
That means for you: With average luck but less than perfect choice of beacons, you will not make the set. Or alternatively with a perfect choice of beacons and bad luck you will also not receive the full set.

Since you cannot do anything about the luck part, the only thing you can do better next time is to pick the correct chests for your goal. Or of course hope that Inno will hand out more event currency to everybody next time.

 

[sentimil]

@Gargon667: The text you quote speaks not of quests being released later on daily basic, but of quest additions. Not the same thing, at least to me - and to other players too, it turns out.

Yes, the leagues are meant to make money for Inno, and that is OK, such a game deserves money. What is not OK is keeping players just short of the complete thing, in order to make money. Some people consider it unfair. And the overall of the event, as well as the reaction of the support, make me think that this is intentional. Which explains why the number of active players is shrinking. Not even considering that some people would not think if it is fair or not, but would feel somehow cheated - they did their best and still didn't got it. Also not inciting to continue playing.

I believe I made relatively good beacons choice, always going for the beacon with the best ratio of points per SK - or to the lowest-priced beacon, where all beacons have suboptimal ratios. I admit that I didn't had a lot of luck - can't remember if I got once some extra SK, or not at all. But I noticed that chests with better cost ratio present less chance for extra SK, where at all. So, the better choices you make, the less luck you will have the chance to have: statistically you are being balanced under the line, by design.

And all that makes for some conclusions... Still, thank you for the sincere support!

@Julian: Yes, I am in a fellowship with no experienced players. Such fellowships, like the inexperienced players, do exist. We make up for that by reading everything that is given to us, in announcements, documentation etc. That is where the problem starts.

The limiting of the number of quests per time is not really announced in advance - and, it happens, it would push players into paying, in a way that is not fair (paying itself is OK, the way it creeps in is the problem). Nor is announced the meaning of the bar you mention - some of the players around me believed that it is the number of the beacon choices you can make, thus going for a wrong strategy. And where is the guarantee what will mean the next such quest indicator, if also unexplained and vague? Players come here to build fantasy cities, not to play whack-a-mole with the game team, I dare to think.

Openly demanding payment in advance is OK. Sneakily pushing in game elements that would make a player pay is not. At least some players appear to think so.

@Silmaril: A player that plans their strategy in advance, not knowing that the last few quests are limited, would leave for the final element 2 days. With quests limited only by execution, that should be more than enough to gather the points for the element in 2 days, and even leave 1 day for the unexpected.

One element takes 20 points to secure. With good playing, they can be obtained for as little as 23 SK per point (average, based on what I have seen), or 460 SK total. 2 days left plus 1 day for unexpected things make 3 days. By 30 SK around the city, plus 35 daily amount, that make 195 SK total. 3 quests for 65, 66 and 67 SK respectively add 198 SK to that, to 393 SK. Way short of 460, isn't it?

So, I am sorry, but the math does not agree with you. And, given how good at math your team are - I know how much math takes to create so balanced a game - it appears to me strange that you'd offer to me this plan. Explainable to me only by the assumption I already had to make... But obviously this is what you are authorized to. And this tells me all about InnoGames I needed to know - things from the real life, that go miles beyond a game event. Game events come and go, and get forgotten, but these things stay. Entire games come and go and get forgotten, but the things from the real life stay...

I wish you success and pleasant giving more fabulous help.

 

[Pauly7]

I don't really understand what your complaint is here @sentimil and I think it has all been covered by others, but just to say:

1. If you open the quest icon on your desktop you can see a time line of quests showing how many out of 75 you have completed already.
2. It makes no difference to how well you have done in the event, the fact that you didn't understand there were only 75 quests.

@Gargon667 has explained the two reasons why you have fallen short of completing the set. There will be many others in your position. That's the uncertainty of it all. However, there is no 'gaffe' and a lack of understanding about the quest format didn't change anything.

 

[Pauly7]

So, the better choices you make, the less luck you will have the chance to have: statistically you are being balanced under the line, by design.

This is a confusing statement. The better choices to make include not only the face value of points to be won, but also take account of what the potential free SK does to the equation. There have been long discussions about all of this on other threads.

 

[Gargon667]

@Gargon667: The text you quote speaks not of quests being released later on daily basic, but of quest additions. Not the same thing, at least to me - and to other players too, it turns out.

The questline consists of a story section and additional episodic quests, which start as soon as the story is completed. This means that you will be able to finish the first series of quests right away, while later quests have new additions released on a daily basis, allowing you to continue to play 1 additional event quest on each new event day

I love to disagree with Inno, but in this announcement they could not possibly have made it more clear I think. They even repeat it 3 times!
First story quests, then daily quests.
Which other way could they have said it?

Given that English is not your first language (as for many people here, including myself) things are always bound to get lost in translation, but here I honestly cannot fault Inno This is the international server where English is used to communicate with people outside their native language. I suppose the country servers don´t have this problem, but it´s nobody´s fault.

The game is of course far more complex than can be explained in a few announcements and info boxes, so very often you actually do NOT get any information how things work. Inno taking the space for repeating the fact 3 times, shows they are aware of it being complicated for people and try the best they can to explain.

Yes, the leagues are meant to make money for Inno, and that is OK, such a game deserves money. What is not OK is keeping players just short of the complete thing, in order to make money. Some people consider it unfair. And the overall of the event, as well as the reaction of the support, make me think that this is intentional. Which explains why the number of active players is shrinking. Not even considering that some people would not think if it is fair or not, but would feel somehow cheated - they did their best and still didn't got it. Also not inciting to continue playing.

Well let´s put it this way: If I just managed to win a fridge in the lottery, you will have a hard time trying to sell me a second one... If I win a fridge without drawers, your chances of selling me those drawers are pretty good. It would be rather silly to use the first one as a business model, you would only be wasting everybody´s time...
While that is frustrating, it is just how it is. Put it down as learning experience. Next time you know how it works. And I suggest you look at the lists that show which beacons are good for your goals! You´ll probably be surprised.

 

[Julian]

Also, are you aware of elvengems.com? That will give you lots of info on events. I've just looked and it shows that the quests go to dailies after number 53.

 

[Sir Derf]

@sentimil I think you are 1) ignoring an important factor that may still save you, and 2) making a, well not incorrect, but improperly framed, presentation of how your having daily quests at the end is preventing you from acquiring the Pilgrim's Forge.

First of all, consider that in the remainder of chests (beacons) you have yet to open, some of those chests (beacons, and continue to read these parenthetical inserts as I will now drop the double talk) may give you additional SK. A single lucky pick on an 80 chest could give you 300 additional SK and fulfill your desire.

Second, if I understand your description, you believe you are left with not enough ability to earn SK in these last few days, now that you are at the daily quests, to reach your goal, and are blaming the potential of the last few days, ignoring the impact on your journey of what has already happened in the last few weeks. This is akin to a student who has been getting C's and D's (70s and 60s out of 100s, for forum members under different grading systems) wondering why acing the final (100/100) can't pull him up to a B+ (high 80s). If you had a better outcome in the beginning, been offered better chest options, always chosen the best chest from those offered (including the impacts of compounding on bonus SK), and possibly most impactfully, had better RNG rewarding of bonus SK, you would have been better off now, and the potential of those last few days of quests would mean less.

Best of luck.

 

[sentimil]

@Pauly7: I am a relatively new player, like most other players I talked to, and like most on the servers. Have you noticed that 9 out of 10 players here abandon the game soon? Some would anyway. Some however are chased of by what they perceive as unfairness. Accepting it is your right. However, it doesn't mean that everyone would, or should.

@Gargon667: Look at the quote you are giving:

"The questline consists of a story section and additional episodic quests, which start as soon as the story is completed. This means that you will be able to finish the first series of quests right away, while later quests have new additions released on a daily basis, allowing you to continue to play 1 additional event quest on each new event day."

Most players I know apparently expected that to mean that the questline shown is the story section, and the additional episodic quests are beyond it. I could think of too many other ways to say it more clearly to give them there, even to people whose English is not a first language.

Moreover, you keep giving different quotes about how Inno described the event. I could give more yet. This shows that there are multiple descriptions that do not match. Even if there is an exact one, it would be lost among the others, drown out by the many possible meanings they introduce.

What is frustrating is not the way the game is, but the feeling that Inno tries to cheat its players. As I said before, asking for money beforehand openly is OK, such a game deserves money. Sneaking into it catches that will keep most players from getting fully what appears to be a honest event, unless they pay, is not OK - at least for most gamers I know.

@Julian: Elvengems and Elvenarchitect aren't always right. For example, that information about switching to daily quests after 53 appears to be wrong. It would make sense to switch an user to daily quests after they have as many quests as the end of the event left. Some reach it sooner, and some later; I did at 68 or 69. It is true however that in general they are excellent sources of knowledge, I use them a lot.

@Sir Derf: Why worry that you lost your job? You still have several coins in your pocket. Buy a couple lottery tickets and you might not need to work ever again!

Sorry for the joke, could not resist.

As for my description: my problem is not being left without ability to earn SK in the last few days, but not being warned that this will happen. It is OK to have any mechanism of playing, as long as players are fully informed about it. I talked to the Elvenar players that I know personally, and they all feel that this switch without a real advance warning stinks. It is the problem I am complaining about. And @Silmaril trying for Inno to refute that with calculations that do not tie up when scrutinized does not improve my feeling about it a single bit.

Had I started with better luck, I probably would not go to analyse the situation. Now I do it, and the deeper I go, the more I get the feeling that the game is stacked under the hood against the statistically average player. And that speaks volumes, mostly things that no one I know would like. Things not about transient stuff like a quest, a challenge or even a game, but stuff much more permanent - about the way Inno is run, and what we all should expect here in the future. My grief with not getting an oh-so-important last piece from a life-saving set are actually nothing - except for being the door that led me to seeing the important things.

 

[Pauly7]

It seems to me that you keep sort of repeating what you are saying even though it has been explained by multiple people that this is not the case. It is all pretty clear. You misunderstood what it means, but that's no one's fault. There are plenty of times I am critical about Inno's methods, the things they say, the things they do... I do it on almost a daily basis, but I find no way to criticise them about this.

There are daily quests - one for each day of the event. These don't become available to you until you complete the main questline (53 quests, or however many that is). Once you reach the daily quests you can then complete as many as have already been made available by the number of days that has so far passed. Once you catch up, you're getting one a day.

It seems to me that your only real concern here is that the quests are finite. You thought you'd be able to complete 4 or 5 quests a day for the whole event, thus making the event about a third easier. You then found out that isn't the case and you're not happy about it.

 

[Sir Derf]

In his defense, the description did not provide numbers, and the graphical interface does not show the demarcation between when the always-open quests end and the daily quests begin. I'll go one step further and point out that while on the one hand the graphical interface only shows 75 quests, counting everything up as n/75, strongly implying that there are only 75 quests, with no visible indication that there is anything after that, on the other hand the always-open quests are described as a "story section", and the additional episodic quests "start as soon as the story is completed", and the graphical interface shows "Event narrative quest" points, happening all the way up to at quest 74/75.

 

[Hekata]

There are plenty of times I am critical about Inno's methods, the things they say, the things they do...

...the things they don't say, the things they don't do....

 

[DeletedUser501]

Well I never, ever, since I started playing this game, have failed in completing the maximun numbers of artifacts / parts AVAILABLE to achieve for a Evo.Building/ Set. No matter what type of chests or mix of chest I have picked up in those events I could get the full available pieces/ artifacts, now in this new event, I just found out I won´t be able to get the last piece (Pilgrim Forge). EVEN AFTER WINNING AROUND 560 EXTRA SKs!!!

 

[Pauly7]

Well I never, ever, since I started playing this game, have failed in completing the maximun numbers of artifacts / parts AVAILABLE to achieve for a Evo.Building/ Set. No matter what type of chests or mix of chest I have picked up in those events I could get the full available pieces/ artifacts, now in this new event, I just found out I won´t be able to get the last piece (Pilgrim Forge). EVEN AFTER WINNING AROUND 560 EXTRA SKs!!!

It's tight. There will be a lot of disappointed people. I've said before, (probably a few times), but in this event if you do everything right - i.e. complete all the quests, pick up all the extra currency, always open the correct beacons - then on average you'll just about make it. Problem with that is it means a whole massive swathe of people won't make it, just because of the natural swing in luck slightly back and forth.

 

[Sir Derf]

"On average you'll make it" means about 50% of people who complete all quests to the end won't make it. And while there will be people who make it without completing all quests and could stop there successfully, more than 50% of those who don't complete all the quests won't make it. That's more than 50% of those trying and not completing; I'm not even considering those who abandon it early without seriously trying to complete. Just to put some quantification, even if it is relative, to the phrase "whole massive swathes".

Once things number in the thousands, if not ten's of, hundred's of, or millions, simply throwing around the concept of "many" loses all meaning. "Many people say this", "Thousands of people think that". Many can still be a minority, a fraction, a tiny sliver.

 

[DeletedUser501]

It's tight. There will be a lot of disappointed people. I've said before, (probably a few times), but in this event if you do everything right - i.e. complete all the quests, pick up all the extra currency, always open the correct beacons - then on average you'll just about make it. Problem with that is it means a whole massive swathe of people won't make it, just because of the natural swing in luck slightly back and forth.

I open the game almost every hour a day, that means I collect almost all the SK that falls within my city. I did all the episodic event quests, and even won some extra SKs in some chests, and I not even close to get the last part of the set.

That part of the set (pilgrim forge) is in the position of another base of a Evo building from other event ( I can name several of them ), because this time the parts were separated by 2 in the grand prize section.