Discussion News from Beta (may contain spoilers!)

[CrazyWizard]

I remember a post from a former CM on the forums,
For a long while they refused to take action agains pushing because a decent portion of big spenders where conducting this behavior,
Many other CM's spoke up for them as taking action agains these players would hurt inno-games income model.
This was the main reason it took so increadibly long before action was taken.

Yet they have designed a spire / tournament formula than hits a certain group of players exceptionally hard......
Those same group they tried to protect so long ago.

 

[C-Nymph]

They actually might loose the whales that care about tournaments (not every whale cares).
I have seldom seen a company shoot themselves in the foot like this.

Yet they have designed a spire / tournament formula than hits a certain group of players exceptionally hard......
Those same group they tried to protect so long ago.

The most frustrating thing is that Inno actually really doesn't care about the whales. They pretended to care about the whales, by protecting them while (some of) them were breaking the rules. It all comes down to Inno actually only caring about money. Whales have by now spent their money and will probably not spend a whole lot more (especially not with the recent changes). Little young fish are however still willing to spend and those little fish react rather well to the carrot on a stick that is called FOMO, which is Inno's core businessmodel.
They're actually openly celebrating and bragging about the dollar signs in their eyes:
" After 13 years on the market, InnoGames continues to experience ongoing growth with revenues reaching more than 190 million Euro."

https://www.innogames.com/company/about-us/

So their new objective nowadays is to change the game to protect the little young fish. Regardless of (or even completely ignoring) the fact that by protecting the fish, they're at the same time driving a harpoon through the whales.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Each time a new chapter enters the game those people draw there wallets, eacht time a new world opens a bunch of them draws there wallet.
I also know players who draw there wallet to perform in the tournaments, cycling academy recipes to get more time boosters and combat buildings.

You create an event with something good? they draw there wallets.
Just because they already spend a lot of money doesn't mean they are no longer spending money. these players have already shown they are willen to open there wallets to achieve there goals.

 

[Timneh]

They made this forum so we could give feedback. Us not giving feedback because we fear what they might do with that feedback seems a little counterproductive to the objective of having a forum to give feedback on game mechanics...

It's the devs who completely screw up translating the feedback into new valuable changes/additions, not the players!

The devs are indeed the problem and that is why i have said on a couple of occasions that players should be careful what they wish for because they just migh get it but where the Inno devs are concerned it will not be the way they wanted it.
AW KPs came about because players were complaining that they lost some KP when tourneys ended and they wanted the KP to be collectable when they wanted to collect them. What they never asked for was for the KP to be only useable on AWs.
If the devs would listen to feedback and then implement it in the way it was asked for players would not be nervous about suggesting changes and then the devs screwing it up to make things worse. One of the most annoying things (for me) is when they screw a suggestion completely out of context and then say thay they have made the change in response to player feedback.

 

[valle]

As usual this forum is full of complainers, so I'm not really surprised to read your posts.
Personally I think this change to tournament sounds great. The big problem with tournament is the massive amount of mouse clicks needed to do a very repetetive task. The challenge in tournament is not the opposing armies as they often are relatively easy to beat with almost the same troops for every fight. No the challenge is to be able to spend a rediculous amount of time with a very boring and repetetive task. From what I read here there even sound like people like to do it that way.

This is a game. It is supposed to be fun and challenging. The thing about tournament in it's current state is that it gives good rewards but is boring and time consuming. So any change that will reduce time spent and make the fights more challenging is a good change. Even if it means I'll gain less kp every week, but it's the same for everybody.

 

[Pauly7]

The challenge in tournament is not the opposing armies as they often are relatively easy to beat with almost the same troops for every fight. No the challenge is to be able to spend a rediculous amount of time with a very boring and repetetive task. From what I read here there even sound like people like to do it that way.

It seems like your comments are coming as someone who is familiar with the old system, but not the new, so why would you be critical of how others are reacting to it? I also object to being labelled a "complainer" when the object of such exercises is to provide feedback, which one hopes may have an impact on improving the Elvenar experience for everyone. The truth is that the devs have already identified bugs and things wrong, which are making the new fighting system more difficult than they intended.

You are used to getting 5-7k tournament scores. If you suddenly found them dropping to below 1,500 I expect you would just be completely happy with the impact that would have on chest rewards, if not personal rewards(?)

The thing about tournament in it's current state is that it gives good rewards but is boring and time consuming.

Make no mistake, the new system is WAY more time consuming than the existing one. The one encounter takes more analysis, even if there is less physical clicking. They are also gearing it so that it will be impossible to get at all deep into a tournament without manually fighting exclusively.

 

[Julian]

Make no mistake, the new system is WAY more time consuming than the existing one. The one encounter takes more analysis, even if there is less physical clicking. They are also gearing it so that it will be impossible to get at all deep into a tournament without manually fighting exclusively.

Even if you are correct, that time spent will be more enjoyable doing something of a challenge, rather than completing a tedious clicking exercise. For this current elixir tournament, I'm just shoving in 5 frog princes on all the fights and not engaging my brain on any of it. Boring. The only reason I'm doing it is because I need the relics for the MA.

 

[Errandil]

As usual this forum is full of complainers, so I'm not really surprised to read your posts.
Personally I think this change to tournament sounds great. The big problem with tournament is the massive amount of mouse clicks needed to do a very repetetive task. The challenge in tournament is not the opposing armies as they often are relatively easy to beat with almost the same troops for every fight. No the challenge is to be able to spend a rediculous amount of time with a very boring and repetetive task. From what I read here there even sound like people like to do it that way.

This is a game. It is supposed to be fun and challenging. The thing about tournament in it's current state is that it gives good rewards but is boring and time consuming. So any change that will reduce time spent and make the fights more challenging is a good change. Even if it means I'll gain less kp every week, but it's the same for everybody.

In my opinion the current system we have is already fun and challenging. Almost since I've started this game I really enjoyed planning my city development to be able to preform better in the tournaments and was happy with my results increasing over time. Also I don't think that 30 minutes a round I now spend to do 50+ provinces is some insane amount of time, considering all the goodies I'm getting in return.
On the other hand the system we are getting would make it extremely hard to consistently do even 30+ provinces and at the same time it devalues most of the military AWs since for every level you add you will tournaments becoming a bit harder. Which, tbh, is beyond annoying by itself with most of them adding something like 1% to attack of a specific troop type per level. But probably that was considered too big, so here we are. And no, I don't see any fun in the system that requires more work for getting much less than before and essentially creates the upper limit for how much you can improve your results.

 

[DeletedUser7526]

Even if you are correct, that time spent will be more enjoyable doing something of a challenge, rather than completing a tedious clicking exercise. For this current elixir tournament, I'm just shoving in 5 frog princes on all the fights and not engaging my brain on any of it. Boring. The only reason I'm doing it is because I need the relics for the MA.

With the new system, probably enjoyable due to challenge. But won’t get enough relics. Or pop or EE spells many use. We are just saying, make it enjoyable. Make it challenging. But make it as rewarding as challenging.

 

[Hekata]

As usual this forum is full of complainers, so I'm not really surprised to read your posts.
Personally I think this change to tournament sounds great. The big problem with tournament is the massive amount of mouse clicks needed to do a very repetetive task. The challenge in tournament is not the opposing armies as they often are relatively easy to beat with almost the same troops for every fight. No the challenge is to be able to spend a rediculous amount of time with a very boring and repetetive task. From what I read here there even sound like people like to do it that way.

This is a game. It is supposed to be fun and challenging. The thing about tournament in it's current state is that it gives good rewards but is boring and time consuming. So any change that will reduce time spent and make the fights more challenging is a good change. Even if it means I'll gain less kp every week, but it's the same for everybody.

Even if you are correct, that time spent will be more enjoyable doing something of a challenge, rather than completing a tedious clicking exercise. For this current elixir tournament, I'm just shoving in 5 frog princes on all the fights and not engaging my brain on any of it. Boring. The only reason I'm doing it is because I need the relics for the MA.

There are a few players on Beta who used to say the same thing before they tried the new system and now they are all saying it's too hard one has even apologised to advocating for this new system before. Maybe by the time it hits live it will be a decent system (and if that's the case it will be thanks to the players testing it and saying what's wrong with it) but the way it is now it's very bad.

I think the current tournaments are challenging for a lot of players; not everyone has unlimited troops, not everyone has 3* frogs, not everyone is an expert at choosing troops, so knowing the 2 they will have to train thanks to those guides players have written was very helpful and that is now mostly worthless. And most importantly not everyone wants that big of a challenge, some just want get things like spells and kps and relics for their cities.

 

[valle]

You are used to getting 5-7k tournament scores. If you suddenly found them dropping to below 1,500 I expect you would just be completely happy with the impact that would have on chest rewards, if not personal rewards(?)

As long as it's the same for everybody I'm fine with less rewards. Actually I think a big reason for Inno to do it is that the current system is paying out to large amounts of kp. Beeing able to get more than 500 kp/week is really to much. Think how long you would have to wait for taht amount of kp before tournament came to Elvenar. So for the health ogf the game I think it's good to reduce amount of kp given out.

Make no mistake, the new system is WAY more time consuming than the existing one. The one encounter takes more analysis, even if there is less physical clicking. They are also gearing it so that it will be impossible to get at all deep into a tournament without manually fighting exclusively.

People say the same of the Spire. You must manully fight..... I've always been outofighting Spire (Estimate convincing less than 20% in the last 2 levels, none in the first) And I don't think my losses are very heavy. Trick is to know when to fight and when to convince.
I expect to autofight in tournament also, when I can't win by autofighting I cater or if thats to expensive I give up. Simple and quick

 

[valle]

Also I don't think that 30 minutes a round I now spend to do 50+ provinces is some insane amount of time, considering all the goodies I'm getting in return.

I guess you are pretty quick as I'm sure it takes me more than 30 minutes to fight 50+ provinces.
50 provinces are 200 fights. That is about 2000 clicks with the mouse.
30 minutes equals 1800 seconds so about 1 click every second for 30 minutes.
I don't enjoy that, it's probably bad for your fingers too

 

[Pauly7]

I guess you are pretty quick as I'm sure it takes me more than 30 minutes to fight 50+ provinces.
50 provinces are 200 fights. That is about 2000 clicks with the mouse.

I will get 60 provinces out in 30 minutes. Not on the browser though. It's much faster on the app... plus you're not technically clicking.

 

[valle]

There are a few players on Beta who used to say the same thing before they tried a new system and now they are all saying it's too hard one has even apologised to advocating for this new system before. Maybe by the time it hits live it will be a decent system (and if that's the case it will be thanks to the players testing it and saying what's wrong with it) but the way it is now it's very bad.

I guess they call it beta for a reason;. If they found it's to hard it will probably be adjusted to be a bit easier by the time it hits normal servers.

 

[Pauly7]

As long as it's the same for everybody I'm fine with less rewards. Actually I think a big reason for Inno to do it is that the current system is paying out to large amounts of kp. Beeing able to get more than 500 kp/week is really to much. Think how long you would have to wait for taht amount of kp before tournament came to Elvenar. So for the health ogf the game I think it's good to reduce amount of kp given out.

Which we've addressed. If they want to reduce the KP on offer, they should just reduce it. It's much simpler and doesn't affect the balance of the entire game. The effect of the new system will be far reaching. It will make the Spire more difficult, it will make game progression more difficult, due to the drain on resources (remember you will now be catering with coins, supplies and orcs), and it will make the tournaments inaccessible to new players. Sure, that last part looks like it will be fixed, but if it weren't for the "complainers" then how would things ever be right?

 

[valle]

I will get 60 provinces out in 30 minutes. Not on the browser though. It's much faster on the app... plus you're not technically clicking.

I'm only using the computer as do a lot of other players.

 

[Errandil]

As long as it's the same for everybody I'm fine with less rewards. Actually I think a big reason for Inno to do it is that the current system is paying out to large amounts of kp. Beeing able to get more than 500 kp/week is really to much. Think how long you would have to wait for taht amount of kp before tournament came to Elvenar. So for the health ogf the game I think it's good to reduce amount of kp given out.

Levelling only military AWs + GA to lvl 30 is 200k+ of KP. Even with the tournaments giving that much it still takes years to get there. In my opinion it's better for the health of the game when you don't have to make a several years plans based on the existing content and not even accounting for the additions we get each half a year.

I guess you are pretty quick as I'm sure it takes me more than 30 minutes to fight 50+ provinces.
50 provinces are 200 fights. That is about 2000 clicks with the mouse.
30 minutes equals 1800 seconds so about 1 click every second for 30 minutes.
I don't enjoy that, it's probably bad for your fingers too

It's much faster from the app. Same as with the NH, even if you mostly play from the PC it's a good idea to switch to the phone for some of the tasks.

 

[Pauly7]

I guess they call it beta for a reason;. If they found it's to hard it will probably be adjusted to be a bit easier by the time it hits normal servers.

And this thread is an extension of Beta. It's where to go to find what's going on in Beta testing right now. Any comments and feedback should, therefore, be just as relevant... though in practice I don't think what goes on in this thread finds its way back to development very often.

 

[valle]

Which we've addressed. If they want to reduce the KP on offer, they should just reduce it. It's much simpler and doesn't affect the balance of the entire game. The effect of the new system will be far reaching. It will make the Spire more difficult, it will make game progression more difficult, due to the drain on resources (remember you will now be catering with coins, supplies and orcs), and it will make the tournaments inaccessible to new players. Sure, that last part looks like it will be fixed, but if it weren't for the "complainers" then how would things ever be right?

I think the game should be a bit harder. It's become to easy with all time instants, coin instants and supply instants. Whats the point with a game that is no challenge. When it's hard you can improve to get a bit longer and feel satisfied. As it's now even the spire is pretty easy. I've never had any problems finishing it (doing it since it came out) and would be happy if it could prove a little bit of a challenge.

 

[Pauly7]

I think the game should be a bit harder. It's become to easy with all time instants, coin instants and supply instants. Whats the point with a game that is no challenge. When it's hard you can improve to get a bit longer and feel satisfied. As it's now even the spire is pretty easy. I've never had any problems finishing it (doing it since it came out) and would be happy if it could prove a little bit of a challenge.

The thing is, the game used to be much simpler with less things going on. No one got huge tournament scores. We built our cities and waited for things to happen. It was then the decision of the development team to introduce all these things you are talking about, including powerful pets, and also to have events, and other ways to gain resources, going on constantly. The Spire was also introduced. The reason for all this is they want people to be entertained 100% of the time. As soon as they put all these things in place, though, people design whole strategies around it which takes a long time and sometimes people's money. Any point that they then backflip and pull the rug out, is always going to be an emotional thing.