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Minor differences in the progress before Chapter VI.

anonglitch

anonglitch

Co-Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Laurelin

Laurelin

Sorcerer
@Giraffi : If these are the same (whether all of them or just some?) changes to Chapters I-V which have also just appeared on the Beta Server then here you go, with the usual caveat about all Beta content being subject to change before Live implementation:

SPOILER AHEAD...

(ETA : I can't seem to find the 'News from Beta' thread, or I'd post the above in that thread instead.)
 
Elfclaw the Mighty

Elfclaw the Mighty

Soothsayer
Don't know if this is included in the "minor differences", but one thing that could be made clearer to new players is that you DO NOT have to complete the tasks in the quest bar, and that they CAN be declined and WILL (usually) be repeated.

I wasted days building things like Giant Globes etc when I first started playing - because the message that comes up when you decline a task is misleading. Maybe fewer people would drop out of the game if this was made clearer?
 
Autumn Breeze

Autumn Breeze

Adventurer
Oh no!!!!!!
The Spire of Eternity is crucial to smaller players!!!!!
The lack of Spell Fragments is what is stopping them from being able to complete Events!!!!
Also stops them from being able to craft in the Magic Academy!!!
As for moving Ancient Wonder Research to Chapter 4... How do you think small players could even think about participating in Fellowship Adventures without being able to make AW Badges???
It would be impossible to even complete the 1st Stage!!!
MINOR changes...???? NOT!!!
These changes would be absolutely disastrous!!!

*** PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!!!! :0 :0 :0 ***
 
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Hekata

Hekata

Artisan
On top of what @Autumn Breeze said I noticed that new players will only be able to do tournaments starting from chapter 4. Isn't that going to slow them down? No tournament = less KPs and (more importantly for them) = less relics, so less boosted production, less crafting, less spells...

I don't really see the point of these changes unless they are meant to tackle some kind of cheating?

Edit: It's also kind of weird they get to play FA (chapter 2) before they unlock AWs (chapter 4),tournaments (chapter 4) and the Spire (chapter 5). That means there are a lot of badges they can't make at all.
 
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Killiak

Killiak

Artisan
I see some typical 'Inno-speak'

Call it minor changes , when in fact you are upending the early game experience and locking new players out of rather important aspects of the (social) game. New players already have so much trouble getting into decent fellowships, and this will make it worse.

It makes me wonder if the market research team maybe concluded that they can score more diamond purchases this way, from frustrated people.
 

Sir Derf

Adept
Autumn Breeze said:
So you think it's a good move to basically block players from joining in on Events and Fellowship Adventures until they are into Chapter 5???
Click to expand...
Joining in on events... aren't there usually optional workarounds? And even if there isn't can't one also get Spell Fragments by disenchanting things, so, while the Spire is helpful, it isn't a drop-dead requirement, now is it... So, is this "basically block[ing] players from joining in"?

Joining in on Fellowship Adventures... There are 16 badges, yes? An individual fellow isn't required to make any particular badge. Even if true that they would be unable to make certain badges, that's not the same as "basically block[ing] players from joining in."

Yes, things are harder and more limited when you are earlier or smaller. Or, to turn it around, things are easier and have more options when you are later and larger. And....?

If I've missed something, let me know.
 
QFol2

QFol2

Conjurer
Sir Derf said:
Joining in on Fellowship Adventures... There are 16 badges, yes? An individual fellow isn't required to make any particular badge. Even if true that they would be unable to make certain badges, that's not the same as "basically block[ing] players from joining in."
Click to expand...

It would have caused me some problems when I started a fs in Fel some time ago - I had only 1200 points or thereabouts so the only players who accepted an invitation to join were similarly small and almost all were new to the game to boot (i.e. they didn't know how to look for a better fs at the time, or even that they should!) We had nobody past chapter 3 I think.
 

Sir Derf

Adept
Um.. okay? But, that sounds more like a Fellowship issue than a Fellow issue.

Plus, there's a difference between "join in" vs. being an equally-contributing member, and a difference between able to participate and able to complete.
 
QFol2

QFol2

Conjurer
So you have a whole fs that can't complete it. Sounds worse to me! And means you don't get much option to start a fs from scratch with a new city and see how well you can do
 

Sir Derf

Adept
So you were all small, early cities... And how many of you were there?

Who says that every fellowship, no matter how many or how far along should be able to complete a Fellowship Adventure?

I would think it obvious that a Fellowship of 1 Lvl 3 wouldn't. 5? 15? 25? A Fellowship of 1 Lvl 5? 5? 15? 25?
 
QFol2

QFol2

Conjurer
Complete the whole thing, no. Obviously not. But being able to have a go, even if it was hard, was actually a great experience for a bunch of new players. If I remember correctly (and I think we are talking about the FA in Nov 2019 when the fellowship was founded in the Oct) we managed to complete one path in the first stage which we were all pretty chuffed with.

I don't remember exactly how many players we had - it was quite a while ago now!
 

Giraffi

Scholar
I play small designer cities, by choice. I can’t even begin to fathom what all the proposed changes will mean for them. My heart sinks. Very likely it will make them unplayable as they won’t be able to partake in what they previously could. Really makes no sense in a game I used to tell people is a game of choices and that you could play it your way.
 
Autumn Breeze

Autumn Breeze

Adventurer
Sir Derf said:
Joining in on events... aren't there usually optional workarounds? And even if there isn't can't one also get Spell Fragments by disenchanting things, so, while the Spire is helpful, it isn't a drop-dead requirement, now is it... So, is this "basically block[ing] players from joining in"?

Joining in on Fellowship Adventures... There are 16 badges, yes? An individual fellow isn't required to make any particular badge. Even if true that they would be unable to make certain badges, that's not the same as "basically block[ing] players from joining in."

Yes, things are harder and more limited when you are earlier or smaller. Or, to turn it around, things are easier and have more options when you are later and larger. And....?

If I've missed something, let me know.
Click to expand...
Oh, you have missed plenty!
How can you disenchant something for Spell Frags when you have NOTHING in your Inventory???
You have next to no Spells, postponing Tournaments would make this even worse!
You can't craft...
You would be extremely lucky to get 1 or 2 buildings in an Event... Would you need to resort to disenchanting the Event Building? That kind of defeats the purpose...
I have a whole Fellowship of beginner players... You can't just say that everyone else can do the harder badges in Fellowship Adventures when no one can!
How many months would you expect beginners to be frustrated by not being able to get anywhere before they just leave???
Oh, and by the way? There is no alternative for quest #27 Gain 600 Spell Fragments ....
Yep, I am an experienced player (different playername) with a new tiny city (also different playername) and I got stuck right there....
I love helping new players of the game learn and understand the balance of play.... but these changes are senseless!
 
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Sir Derf

Adept
You're finding it hard, I understand. You are stuck, I understand. You say you have nothing in your inventory. But, your empty inventory is not because the game hadn't provided you with means to have things in the inventory.

You can make spells, so you could have had them, or you could make more. If you're out of relics, well then scout. If you're out of coins, well get more. If you're out of provinces, well scout more. If you're out of all of the various resources necessary, well apologies, but running out of resources at points in the game happens all the time. You'll eventually get more, you'll eventually do more, and you'll not be in the same situation next time

You're 26 quests into the event, so you could have won items (windfalls, AWKP) and buildings. Extremely lucky to get 1 or 2 buildings in an event? How are you playing these events? I admit I finish events, so get the max free currency, but I regularly get many more than 1 or 2 buildings, frequently 15-20. Yes, if you're only up to the 26th quest, well, you wont have all the currency yet, and so will have so far had lesser results, but again, not impossible.

Whole Fellowship of beginner players... As I asked earlier, who said that all possible fellowships, with any number of players at any level, should be able to complete a Fellowship Adventure? Keep going, you'll be collectively further along next FA, and should be able to go further next time. And further the time after that.

Frustrated by not being able to get anywhere? I thought you were stuck at Quest 27, not Quest 1?

I'm sorry that your reach is exceeding your grasp. Currently.

Grow. Improve.

Faster, Higher, Stronger - Together
 
SkyRider99

SkyRider99

Adept
Sir Derf said:
I'm sorry that your reach is exceeding your grasp. Currently.

Grow. Improve.

Faster, Higher, Stronger - Together
Click to expand...
Well written @Sir Derf .

Even a fellowship with beginner members should be able to grow fairly quickly, with a bit of effort. I certainly found it to be the case when I started years ago.

Obviously there are slow points as one progresses, but that is the interesting and challenging bit. (With the exception of Chapter XIX which is a total road-block!) :p

I see events and FAs and the various festivals as being a trivial and entertaining addition to the *main game*. :cool:

Of course there are some benefits to having a more advanced city. It takes years to achieve that. There is some comfort to know there are even more disadvantages, as the game penalises players in various areas for having high CALs. Players would do well to avoid game envy.
 
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