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Lucky Little Fin
- Thread starter anonglitch
- Start date
@Jake65 @Sir Derf Now this is my own personal theory about the Savory Bites... I assume that the excess hours of what 15hrs!? after the 5th Pet Food is granted, is to ensure Players have the time to collect it. Rather than the Building Expiring and Players losing out? But as I say, those are my thoughts behind it, and not any official reasoning! 
Sir Derf
Adept
Also, it allows you to be a little lax in picking each one up as it is made and still be able to get all 5 before the end.
Does an uncollected, previously produced item evaporate when an expiring building expires? I mean, the building will stop producing at that point, but the building doesn't just self-demolish....
Does an uncollected, previously produced item evaporate when an expiring building expires? I mean, the building will stop producing at that point, but the building doesn't just self-demolish....
Jake65
Sage
Oddly enough, I have a carting library that expires in 16 hours and will produce it's last KP half an hour before expiring. I'll leave it uncollected and see what happens
QFol2
Conjurer
The kp will disappear - I recently visited a city I've let lapse that now has expired buildings and none of them had the last payout ready to collectOddly enough, I have a carting library that expires in 16 hours and will produce it's last KP half an hour before expiring. I'll leave it uncollected and see what happens
Jake65
Sage
You're right, I forgot to collect it in time and it disappeared.
At least it was only 1kp and not 1 pet food. Phew!!
Silly Bubbles
Necromancer
So I stayed true to my risky strategy (going for highest seahorse food rings) and didn't get very lucky on getting additional seahorse food, I only won 600, maybe next time. I got 14 daily prizes and interestingly enough 9 artifacts.
I was hoping for many more dailies but it was still fun to try something different
I was hoping for many more dailies but it was still fun to try something different
SkyRider99
Immortal
Precisely @Silly Bubbles. Some players seem to lose sight of the fact that Elvenar is a game. They can impose strict fellowship regimes, conquer spires and events in a single bound, and even analyse the mechanics of the game down to the quantum level. All of which is fine .... for them.it was still fun to try something different
Some of us (mere mortals) want to play and do the occasional tricksy calculation to improve the outcome.
Silly Bubbles
Necromancer
Just out of interest, what do you mean? There's still three rings to pick from so you must've picked one of them based on something. Even just doing it blindfolded is kind of a strategy.
Stucon
Illusionist
I have a negative strategy. I have coin rains and supply windfalls aplenty, So I pick the ones that are least likely to give me these.Just out of interest, what do you mean? There's still three rings to pick from so you must've picked one of them based on something. Even just doing it blindfolded is kind of a strategy.
This time it meant a lot of 68 and 71 hoops.
I wasn't trying to get anything. Just spend the flower thingies.
There may have been a strategy, but definitely no trying.
happy dance
ShintoShin
Novice
I enjoyed this event. It was the first one where I've been able to complete the quests and get the main prize up to Lvl 10, and get another Lvl 2 Glory to supplement my wood and marble.
Laurelin
Sorcerer
@ShintoShin : Congratulations! But I have a question, if you don't mind? City space is always at a premium in Elvenar - and it gets more so as the Guest Races arrive in Chapter VI Dwarves and above - plus you ? may also not know, unless you're a late-game player with a new early-game City - that the number of Expansions placed [multiplied by other factors] increases your Spire and Tournament Squad Sizes and Catering costs, too.
The reason I'm assuming that you have a reasonably early-Chapter City is because you've said that the Glory of the Nimble building is producing Tier 1 Goods (Planks [wood] and Marble). So, and just out of interest, are you not finding that the [comparatively] very large footprint of this building for an early-game City, at 4 x 4 = 16 tiles - especially if you have two of them placed? - is difficult to fit into an early-game City...?
ShintoShin
Novice
Well, I never knew that increased costs!
I've just hit Chapter 5. I'm not doing too bad for space — I've got one free 5x5 and a 6x4, plus some other smaller areas, and I'll have more space when the Genie/Goddess of Wishes/Ferris Wheel Galore expire.
Silly Bubbles
Necromancer
Wow, that's great!
I don't think that's a problem. The buildings are easy to sell/store/disenchant when they're not useful any more or when there's better buildings available. Also, I wouldn't worry about placing expansions, they are very hard to get so it can't be overdone. Expansions are necessary for easy progress so without them the game can get quite difficult as I'm sure you've noticed yourself.
You'll need a lot of space when you hit guest races and you're not that far from them (Chapter 6). You will need as much space as you can get so it seems that you're quite ready!
Laurelin
Sorcerer
@ShintoShin : Many thanks for the interesting reply - I didn't realise that the Nimble building continues to make Tier One Goods even into Ch.V. For info, I'm in Ch.XII Elementals, should you wonder.
@Silly Bubbles : I'm too tired at the moment to try to debate, for the nth time [not only with you, of course!], why it's not a good idea to place Expansions without at least considering - and, ideally, planning for - the future effects on one's Squad Sizes and Catering costs. I might have a go when I've had some sleep (our English weather is glorious, but SO soporific!) - but I'm still just as lazy as ever, so I may or may not get round to it!
What IS quick enough, and important enough, to point out right now is that a City's no. of placed Expansions is the single most powerful 'lever' in the 2020 Spire and Tournament Formula, not only in terms of how much weight that variable carries within the calculations, but also - and very importantly - because one can (even if reluctantly) delete AWs, which of course also affect the Formula, but one can't un-place Expansions, and these are the only two realistic options most 'normal' players (I'm excluding devoted Spire/Tourney fanatics here) have when it comes to keeping Spire/Tourney Troops/Goods costs down, long-term (we can't not do any Research, after all, if we want to actually play the whole game, even though mandatory Research, too, increases Squad Size and Catering costs - which is why many players choose to stop Research in Ch.XV or early Ch.XVI - after all 3* Mercenary Camp Troops become available - in order to stop further Research driving those costs even higher).
I know that you, and a few other commentators on this Forum, disagree with me about the Tourney Formula, and - it seems? - particularly about how advisable it is for every single player, without any account taken of their individual City builds, strategies, and/or likelihood to want to become/remain competitive in the Spire and/or Tournament, to freely place as many Expansions as possible, without any consideration of future negative effects upon Spire and Tournament Squad Sizes and Catering Costs. But as I say, this isn't a short debate, so I won't attempt it now.
And that said, I think it's fair to add that it's not only me with whom you [and a couple of others] disagree. As I'm sure you must know by now, since you're a long-term player and Forum member, at the point when the 2020 Formula was extended from the Spire into the Tournament, every maths-inclined expert player and Forum commentator agreed that it's not a good idea to forge ahead in-game without taking the Formula into account (and some, of course, put it in far less polite terms than that, having seen the decimation of their former ability, using their advanced late-game Cities, to score very highly in the Tournament, with Ch.III Cities suddenly becoming easily able to out-score them - literally overnight).
You may also recall that many formerly active players - and, again, commentators here - abandoned their large-footprint late-game Cities as a direct result of their unacceptably increased Tourney costs (and/or upon realising HOW the Spire worked, as well) - with some of them instead starting new Cities and maintaining a consistently smaller footprint [because they typically chose not to use the alternative of strictly limiting their AW levels instead], but with others, regrettably, leaving the game entirely. For most non-casual players, it was a rather distressing time, overall.
And all of the in-depth mathematical calculations - and the dozens of pages of Forum commentary on this, on all Forums - are still available, of course, but again, I'm too tired to search through Forum archives right now. I'll see if I can muster the energy once I've had some good sleep!
And with that - it's snooze time!
PS : Many players have no interest in their Tournament/Spire scores, and/or aren't concerned with the game's mechanics - and that's fair enough!
@Silly Bubbles : I'm too tired at the moment to try to debate, for the nth time [not only with you, of course!], why it's not a good idea to place Expansions without at least considering - and, ideally, planning for - the future effects on one's Squad Sizes and Catering costs. I might have a go when I've had some sleep (our English weather is glorious, but SO soporific!) - but I'm still just as lazy as ever, so I may or may not get round to it!
What IS quick enough, and important enough, to point out right now is that a City's no. of placed Expansions is the single most powerful 'lever' in the 2020 Spire and Tournament Formula, not only in terms of how much weight that variable carries within the calculations, but also - and very importantly - because one can (even if reluctantly) delete AWs, which of course also affect the Formula, but one can't un-place Expansions, and these are the only two realistic options most 'normal' players (I'm excluding devoted Spire/Tourney fanatics here) have when it comes to keeping Spire/Tourney Troops/Goods costs down, long-term (we can't not do any Research, after all, if we want to actually play the whole game, even though mandatory Research, too, increases Squad Size and Catering costs - which is why many players choose to stop Research in Ch.XV or early Ch.XVI - after all 3* Mercenary Camp Troops become available - in order to stop further Research driving those costs even higher).
I know that you, and a few other commentators on this Forum, disagree with me about the Tourney Formula, and - it seems? - particularly about how advisable it is for every single player, without any account taken of their individual City builds, strategies, and/or likelihood to want to become/remain competitive in the Spire and/or Tournament, to freely place as many Expansions as possible, without any consideration of future negative effects upon Spire and Tournament Squad Sizes and Catering Costs. But as I say, this isn't a short debate, so I won't attempt it now.
And that said, I think it's fair to add that it's not only me with whom you [and a couple of others] disagree. As I'm sure you must know by now, since you're a long-term player and Forum member, at the point when the 2020 Formula was extended from the Spire into the Tournament, every maths-inclined expert player and Forum commentator agreed that it's not a good idea to forge ahead in-game without taking the Formula into account (and some, of course, put it in far less polite terms than that, having seen the decimation of their former ability, using their advanced late-game Cities, to score very highly in the Tournament, with Ch.III Cities suddenly becoming easily able to out-score them - literally overnight).
You may also recall that many formerly active players - and, again, commentators here - abandoned their large-footprint late-game Cities as a direct result of their unacceptably increased Tourney costs (and/or upon realising HOW the Spire worked, as well) - with some of them instead starting new Cities and maintaining a consistently smaller footprint [because they typically chose not to use the alternative of strictly limiting their AW levels instead], but with others, regrettably, leaving the game entirely. For most non-casual players, it was a rather distressing time, overall.
And all of the in-depth mathematical calculations - and the dozens of pages of Forum commentary on this, on all Forums - are still available, of course, but again, I'm too tired to search through Forum archives right now. I'll see if I can muster the energy once I've had some good sleep!
And with that - it's snooze time!
PS : Many players have no interest in their Tournament/Spire scores, and/or aren't concerned with the game's mechanics - and that's fair enough!
Jake65
Sage
There was mention somewhere (can't for the life of me find it) that the different type of expansions have a different effect on the tourney/spire formula.
How does each type affect this?
Research
Provinces
Bought with diamonds
After your snooze.....
TIA
Laurelin
Sorcerer
@Jake65 : Ha, I'm back just one more time, to do a last-minute proofread of my waffle, above - and yes, Premium Expansions are 'worth' 60% of the effect of Research or Province Expansions. That was one of Inno's concessions to the raging mob, when the 2020 Tourney changes happened; the other major one was the alteration of the former system whereby all three Troop Training Buildings shared a production queue, so only 5 x Squads could be trained at one time, rather than 15, as it is now. There were some other [very] minor alterations; MinMax (below) recorded it all.
The full figures, all the calculations, and even a handy online spreadsheet calculator to work out what effect any changes to any player's City will have on their Spire / Tournament Squad Sizes are available on the personal website of MinMax Gamer, who first reverse-engineered the Formula (and the City data on which it rests as well - the CAL, or City Advancement Level), here : MinMaxgame.com : NOT affiliated with InnoGames... it's detailed, but fascinating for the maths-adept (or anyone who'd like to know the real nuts & bolts of the Formula and the CAL), and indeed a very entertaining read all round, for anyone who doesn't object to a quite verbose - although in MinMax's case, never off-topic - writing style.
The above link has multiple sub-links, and the direct URL for the calculator (Google sheet) can be found there too. You'll need to know your own starting Squad Size for any given week's Tournament or Spire to make use of the calculator - the pre-set figure in the sheet is for example purposes only, and all Cities will vary - by up to 400% in some cases - even if they appear to be superficially at a similar level of advancement.
... aaaand : ZZZZZ
The full figures, all the calculations, and even a handy online spreadsheet calculator to work out what effect any changes to any player's City will have on their Spire / Tournament Squad Sizes are available on the personal website of MinMax Gamer, who first reverse-engineered the Formula (and the City data on which it rests as well - the CAL, or City Advancement Level), here : MinMaxgame.com : NOT affiliated with InnoGames... it's detailed, but fascinating for the maths-adept (or anyone who'd like to know the real nuts & bolts of the Formula and the CAL), and indeed a very entertaining read all round, for anyone who doesn't object to a quite verbose - although in MinMax's case, never off-topic - writing style.
The above link has multiple sub-links, and the direct URL for the calculator (Google sheet) can be found there too. You'll need to know your own starting Squad Size for any given week's Tournament or Spire to make use of the calculator - the pre-set figure in the sheet is for example purposes only, and all Cities will vary - by up to 400% in some cases - even if they appear to be superficially at a similar level of advancement.
... aaaand : ZZZZZ