KP Swap Threads vs Chest Matching (Net0)

[Pauly7]

I think you are underestimating how easy it is. Any donation in the range 200-300kp is likely to be the top donor and get the 60kp chest, putting you ahead of the 20%.

The fact is that for every person who gains more than 20% then someone gets less than 20%. If you have found it easy then this must mean that you are with quite a specific group of people, I.e. lots of people using the swap threads, but most of those people using them quite sporadically. If that's not the case, or if you have any other similarly competitive and/or active people in the fellowship then it is not an easy process to consistently score more than 20%.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

The fact is that for every person who gains more than 20% then someone gets less than 20%. If you have found it easy then this must mean that you are with quite a specific group of people, I.e. lots of people using the swap threads, but most of those people using them quite sporadically. If that's not the case, or if you have any other similarly competitive and/or active people in the fellowship then it is not an easy process to consistently score more than 20%.

All it needs is to aim only for the top chest so you don't spread your KPs around too much and wait for the right AWs to come up in the swap threads.

 

[Pauly7]

All it needs is to aim only for the top chest so you don't spread your KPs around too much and wait for the right AWs to come up in the swap threads.

But it's not just about being the top donator. You also can't donate too much, or you lose out. When you have put yourself in the range where you can get more than 20% then you are always open to other donators overtaking you. As I say, it would be easy if there are a lot of active donators (10+ for e.g.) who are all donating sporadically enough that you can easily maintain your top spot by being more active.

 

[Far Reach]

But it's not just about being the top donator. You also can't donate too much, or you lose out. When you have put yourself in the range where you can get more than 20% then you are always open to other donators overtaking you. As I say, it would be easy if there are a lot of active donators (10+ for e.g.) who are all donating sporadically enough that you can easily maintain your top spot by being more active.

Checking @Turing 's Fellowship and city: he is by far the top scorer in tournaments (getting about 20-25% of his FW total) and also appears to have stopped at C15 with an optimised tourney city (so that his only use for kp will be AWs). These things mean that he will be swapping far more kp each week than anyone else in his fellowship and is very unlikely to be overtaken by any other donator.

Of course your FW might be different.

 

[Turing]

Checking @Turing 's Fellowship and city: he is by far the top scorer in tournaments (getting about 20-25% of his FW total) and also appears to have stopped at C15 with an optimised tourney city (so that his only use for kp will be AWs). These things mean that he will be swapping far more kp each week than anyone else in his fellowship and is very unlikely to be overtaken by any other donator.

Actually on that account it could work out closer to 20% again - once I stepped up my tourney scores I was able to put in far more than needed for top chest, so might only be getting 20%.

But on my other account which I play more steadily, or just looking generally: when an AW has been finished within the trains if you look at the amounts donated and the chests, I found it very rare that the top donor had donated 5* the chest value. If the top chest was 40kp-50kp typically the top donor might have donated 150kp or so. The bottom chest of 5kp OTOH would go do someone donating 30kp-50kp. I once saw a wonder finished where EVERYONE had donated between 45kp and 55kp - the 55kp getting something like a 100% bonus and the 45kp getting nothing at all IIRC. It's when the range of kp placed isn't too wide, that whoever is donating a bit more than others can come out considerably ahead. Without any tactical messing around as described by Pauly. Which was my point in my previous post: getting more than 20% doesn't require any effort at all - it will be the completely normal situation for a few players in almost all FS using trains. Most FS will have some people getting 25%-30% returns and others getting barely 5%-10%. Therefore Net0...

 

[Pauly7]

Checking @Turing 's Fellowship and city: he is by far the top scorer in tournaments (getting about 20-25% of his FW total) and also appears to have stopped at C15 with an optimised tourney city (so that his only use for kp will be AWs). These things mean that he will be swapping far more kp each week than anyone else in his fellowship and is very unlikely to be overtaken by any other donator.

But that doesn't matter, because as I say, you also have to avoid donating too much as well.

But on my other account which I play more steadily, or just looking generally: when an AW has been finished within the trains if you look at the amounts donated and the chests, I found it very rare that the top donor had donated 5* the chest value. If the top chest was 40kp-50kp typically the top donor might have donated 150kp or so. The bottom chest of 5kp OTOH would go do someone donating 30kp-50kp. I once saw a wonder finished where EVERYONE had donated between 45kp and 55kp - the 55kp getting something like a 100% bonus and the 45kp getting nothing at all IIRC. It's when the range of kp placed isn't too wide, that whoever is donating a bit more than others can come out considerably ahead. Without any tactical messing around as described by Pauly. Which was my point in my previous post: getting more than 20% doesn't require any effort at all - it will be the completely normal situation for a few players in almost all FS using trains. Most FS will have some people getting 25%-30% returns and others getting barely 5%-10%. Therefore Net0...

That's all perfectly possible, but like I say, the way it is playing out in your fellowship has to be like a perfect storm for you that doesn't (or shouldn't) happen very often. You are having lots of players (probably 10+) all donating small amounts of KP to the same AWs. If your other fellows thought about it at all they would realise that what they are doing is just pointless and they are just handing you all the bonuses. You would expect people who are not donating much to concentrate their donations to specific AWs, thus giving them a chance of bonuses, but clearly they are not that savvy.

It all still backs up my point that swap threads are not fair to the majority... even if you are personally reaping the rewards.

 

[SkyRider99]

My poor FS members are already pushed around with tournaments, spires, FAs and just trying to keep up with city upgrades. We simply let fellows place KPs when they are able to. They are mostly a fair-minded and generous group. Nobody is keeping a ledger or balance sheet over this way

Of course I can see from the threads posted that a lot of players enjoy the intricate calculations

 

[Pauly7]

Of course I can see from the threads posted that a lot of players enjoy the intricate calculations

Most players don't fancy intricate calculations... and even if they did, swap chains would only benefit the minority, no matter how many people were doing it.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

swap chains would only benefit the minority, no matter how many people were doing it.

Unfortunately, in this situation for every winner, there's a loser. Even just a minority winning can make majority lose. There's a fixed number of chest KPs in a fellowship so when someone benefits there's a guarantee that there's one or more fellows losing because of it.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Just in case someone's tired of KP swap threads messages problems and wants to review the usefulness and fairness of the system, here's some discussion that could be useful and/or interesting. Have fun!

 

[m4rt1n]

Runes add a new dynamic since this thread was made, worth 15kp on donation and only 10kp on your own wonder, for a 30+ a week tourney player like myself this adds more advantage to the swap threads, no one loses anything in the swap threads and active players gain the most, encourages more players to be active in a fellowship in my opinion.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Runes add a new dynamic since this thread was made, worth 15kp on donation and only 10kp on your own wonder

We do bulk swaps of around 30 runes through chat. It also makes it much easier to choose what wonders both parties want. With swap threads you can only do an AW of the previous message.
EDIT: Also, we use runes when we match other people's chests a lot too. The same with perk KPs they're used in matching the chests. I just pick others favourite wonders and put it there. There can be up to 24 wonders to choose from to match their chests so there's never a shortage.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

Just to clarify it one post what I mean by chest matching:

1. Put your KPs into you own wonder.
2. Once you’re close to finishing it (anything bellow 20%, half way through is safe) ask your fellows to match/take the AW's chests.
3. Once all the chests are done, finish your wonder.

Tips:
- use your perk KPs and runes to either match chests when your fellows ask for them or choose any of your fellows hearted AWs chests.
- when you'd like to spend large amount of runes, just ask in the chat whether someone’s interested in making a swap either with your chosen AW or you can even let them choose any AW they would like.
- purple KP icon is 20 KPs, blue KP icon is 5 KPs.