Is the game cannibalizing itself?

[ANIKHTOS]

I want to ask a question does the decisions of the company actual hurts the game and not help it?
And i will be more specific the rewards in Spiral for once and Tournament secondary put a lot of pressure to fellowships. In Spiral there are some diamonds and other goodies, but in Tournament there are royal restorations points and blueprints which are also handy.

The problem is that the company pushed them so hard and in the end that you need a 25 player fellowship commuted to play the events a lot. Spiral for example you need all 25 players to finish all chest!!!

Which creates a cannibalism effect that the new players after a while playing the game and knowing the rewards available try to go into a big fellowship to get more rewards. Which is IMPOSSIBLE to happen for all. Now and then an old player drops out and an opening happens but that will be true for a handful lucky not for the majority of the players.

Which creates a frustrations and disappointment among players. And the drop rate will increase among new players. Yes there are always hard core players that will keep playing despite the hardship or even been alone in a fellowship by themselves and slowly but surely make some progress. But that will be the exception not the rule..

I see in the next fellowship adventure that there is extra prizes for the very top 10 fellowships in form of building?!?!??! Why??Just give them them some time boosters which everyone can get. This elitism just destroy the game. Either you will accept that you will never have those buildings and the ability to get them or stop playing the game since you do not see a path to get them.

I have seen this politics destroy many many many games in my life. I have been in games with 6.000+ active players which was fun to play in, and because they had the same top 10 logic the players where crying we need to go top 10 , we need to go top 10 , guess what the same 12 fellowships where always top 10 and you know what happened? The active players took a dive. There is no better way to loose players by telling them what that player will never get.

Instead of having a top 10 which is static you can have a 10% of participating fellowships to win the prizes. This way its a dynamic range of rewards. The more fellowships play the more will win something. For the tournament the royal restoration need to go in chest 3 and the blueprint go lower to chest 5?? or around there. Which will make been in any fellowship worth playing in and going on in game. And lets face it 1 royal restoration in chest 3 is psychological if you thing you need 15-16 to upgrade 1 building. And in spiral lower it to 20 players getting all chest in order to get all rewards in multiplayer. And also lower all rewards in spiral a bit. Since now you have this odd depending the fellowships and how they do it makes not sense to put a lot of effort in the spiral since you will not get anything of value for your trouble.

The mechanics ought to be there to push players to play more not to make them not to play since that way they maximize their winnings. IF the chest rewards are better then a player would go to finish all the chest even if the fellowship can not keep up with the progress the player makes. But now why waste the troops or the resources?
Catalyst or 3 hour booster will not cut it as presents. Or coin rain 10%.

You need to think and decide as what gamers like and think. As i see it the game is rather steep and very quickly is disappointing for new players. Around me i do not think i have any active player!!!! Even some new players i invite in my fellowship i see them play a few days up to week and then they give up. Yeah i know not all games are made for all people and you need to like the gender to actual put the effort and play it but this game has a big drop rate of new players. The only thing that would keep new players going is a fellowships but with the mechanics you just add to the disappointment.

Well that my opinion, and what i have witness in other games, where the mechanics just turn people off the games.

Have all a nice day.

 

[WinterLivia7]

I agree 100%, the game it's hard for beginners and without a competitive FS (also having in some "big guys") their life is really hard and most of them will just leave but also starting a new FS it's a damn hard job for the exact same reasons you pointed out. To become a strong and competitive FS it takes hell of a lot of time. Not many players are willing to wait months or more to get all those rewards that are depending on the FS.

 

[Errandil]

Same as with any other game this one requires certain level of activity to achieve something. And actually we have a bonus here, since aside from the FAs the rewards are given unrelated to other fellowships, i.e. there's no limit on how many fellowships can get 10 chests in the tournament. So it's not necessary to get into the top FS to get maximum rewards, it's enough to find a group of the like-minded players who a willing to grow and improve.

Not many players are willing to wait months or more to get all those rewards that are depending on the FS.

I wouldn't call it a problem. With a game that's meant to be played for years it's strange to expect to start getting everything in a month or two. If a player isn't willing to spend several months to get the desired result then it's just a wrong game for him or her.

 

[Alcaro]

Same as with any other game this one requires certain level of activity to achieve something. And actually we have a bonus here, since aside from the FAs the rewards are given unrelated to other fellowships, i.e. there's no limit on how many fellowships can get 10 chests in the tournament. So it's not necessary to get into the top FS to get maximum rewards, it's enough to find a group of the like-minded players who a willing to grow and improve.

I wouldn't call it a problem. With a game that's meant to be played for years it's strange to expect to start getting everything in a month or two. If a player isn't willing to spend several months to get the desired result then it's just a wrong game for him or her.

Agree, but I think the idea was that too many players are leaving and not that many are joining.
Also, I think that it's frustrating to see all the goodies other FS are getting (10 chests in tourny, complete Spire) and not having a chance to reach them. Even if a guild it's super active, if it's formed from players in first chapters, they can only dream and cry.

 

[Timneh]

I think there are loads of new players joining the game, the problem is that only a very small percentage of them keep playing for more than a day or 2.
I agree about the frustration that some players must feel seeing what some players are getting and they can't get although they should be able to get them in time.

 

[ANIKHTOS]

Same as with any other game this one requires certain level of activity to achieve something. And actually we have a bonus here, since aside from the FAs the rewards are given unrelated to other fellowships, i.e. there's no limit on how many fellowships can get 10 chests in the tournament. So it's not necessary to get into the top FS to get maximum rewards, it's enough to find a group of the like-minded players who a willing to grow and improve.

I wouldn't call it a problem. With a game that's meant to be played for years it's strange to expect to start getting everything in a month or two. If a player isn't willing to spend several months to get the desired result then it's just a wrong game for him or her.

your reply seems to miss the point of the post
as i said in the post some players do not have the patient for this kind of game and will quit because they like to play different kind of games

but then i said about the players that they like this kind of games and like to put an effort

first of all you reply to something i did not say i said in fellowship adventure there are some extra rewards for the first 10 fellowships, you just ignore that and go out saying that all can get some rewards?? NO THEY CAN NOT get the same rewards even if my fellowship finish all 3 times the adventure but finish rank 11 or lower it will not take the same rewards.

also where did i say that the game need to give rewards immediately?? nowhere i just said form a psychological point of view the tournament rewards are really bad. going chest 4 in tournament will be very hard to impossible for a new fellowship with new players. even chest 3 is an achievement for them.
saying simple move the restoration point 1 chest down it will have a physiological boost for the players and help small fellowships to grow up.

because lets be frank the people that put the effort and grow up they will not wait for the fellowship to grow up and catch with them they will find a better one and move on. and fellowship love players that start reaching certain levels. look the advertisement in the forum fellowship doing 6 chest open for players that level.

when you are a new fellowship you can not have a whip and demand form the new players to grow at a specific rate. you are happy if they do not abandon the game and keep playing the game and evolve as players.

and thats why the post is CANNIBALIZING
because it makes more sense to players to change fellowship rather stay in one and make it work much later in time. and you know that i am right that every time i see a "BIG" fellowship asking for new players in same day they get a new candidate, where this candidate comes from? from another fellowship which he abandon in favor for a better one. which make new fellowships hard to impossible to grow up and exist in the game.

imagine a fellowship getting ready to go chest 4 and start getting restorations points and another fellowship steals the top player out and this happen again and again and again. the frustration that will gather in that fellowship and everyone would just wait for them to be taken out.

which makes the number of players LESS than it would have been in the game.
Its that simple more fellowships allowed to exist more players there can be in the fellowships , more players more income for the company.

yes there will always be players that they will always change fellowship to take a short cut
but not make it a game that makes sense to change fellowship to keep moving forward.

All the topic was about psychological aspects of gamer. This little things that add up and make a game playable or not.
And once more you cannot absorb all new players to the big fellowship its IMPOSSIBLE

i just suggested a few minor changes that will change the physiology of new players seeing the game. and no get frustrated..
Unless you consider 1 restoration point so huge to be moved to chest 3

in the last game i played they gifts given to top 10 fellowships where so good they end up with 10 fellowships in the game

when you artificially limit your game to bottlenecks , those bottlenecks will limit the players that will play the game.

unless you are the one that made the fellowship if given the chance to go a 10 chest tournament fellowship everyone will take the offer and change fellowship so spare me the game is for years, if that was true big fellowships would have the same problem recruiting members as new ones, but we know they do not have

 

[Hekata]

I wouldn't call it a problem. With a game that's meant to be played for years it's strange to expect to start getting everything in a month or two. If a player isn't willing to spend several months to get the desired result then it's just a wrong game for him or her.

While I don't agree with everything Anikthos said, he does have point about about tournies and the spire being too much for most but the strongest FS. And not just new FS. I have been in my FS for almost 3 years now and even when I joined it wasn't a new FS, there where some very advanced players there. And yet we have never gotten more than 8 chests and even that was just a few times, it's usually 6 or 7.

Ever since the RR have been introduced it's extremely hard to get new active fellows if you are not a 10 chests FS already. Active players want to be rewarded for their efforts and only join that kind of FS if they can. So it mostly leaves newbies for the others. And we are fine with taking newbies and help them grow but what happens is that most of them leave after just a few weeks or a couple of months and those who stay long enough to grow to a big-ish city very often move to a 10 chest FS because they grow tired of getting so few rewards for their efforts. The result is that the strong FS keep getting stronger and the others either advance at a very slow pace or not at all.

Some prizes like the blueprints or the FA trophies should remain for only the strongest players, ofc. They are a bonus. But prizes like RR, now very important for the game because of powerful evolving buildings like the Phoenixes or the Bears, should be more available to everyone. Why isn't there a RR in chests 5 and 7? It's much more motivating for a FS to try and get the next chest when there is a RR spell in it than when they have to do 2 more chest (usually out of their reach) to get them. Or give us the chance to earn the RR spells in some other way: daily prize, grand prize, FA reward, challenge reward...

 

[ANIKHTOS]

While I don't agree with everything Anikthos said, he does have point about about tournies and the spire being too much for most but the strongest FS. And not just new FS. I have been in my FS for almost 3 years now and even when I joined it wasn't a new FS there where some very advanced players there. And yet we have never gotten more than 8 chests and even that was just a few times, it's usually 6 or 7.

Ever since the RR have been introduced it's extremely hard to get new active fellows if you are not a 10 chests FS already. Active players want to be rewarded for their efforts and only join that kind of FS if they can. So it mostly leaves newbies for the others. And we are fine with taking newbies and help them grow but what happens is that most of them leave after just a few weeks or a couple of months and those who stay long enough to grow to a big-ish city very often move to a 10 chest FS because they grow tired of getting so few rewards for their efforts. The result is that the strong FS keep getting stronger and the others either advance at a very slow pace or not at all.

Some prizes like the blueprints or the FA trophies should remain for only the strongest players, ofc. They are a bonus. But prizes like RR, now very important for the game because of powerful evolving buildings like the Phoenixes or the Bears, should be more available to everyone. Why isn't there a RR in chests 5 and 7? It's much more motivating for a FS to try and get the next chest when there is a RR spell in in than when they have to do 2 more chest (usually out of their reach) to get them. Or give us the chance to earn the RR spells in some other way: daily prize, grand prize, FA reward, challenge reward...

thats was my post and why i called it cannibalization
the game mechanics do not allow for many fs to be active and competitive in games. winch in the end hurts the game as it limit the players that play the game

in fewer words
the problem is never the amount big fellowship that they earn the problem is what they earn

in the adventure they will win buildings
in the tournament they will win blueprint
in the spiral its about the diamonds??

and your fellowship has the problem i describe in the original post, the cannibalizing of bigger fellowships to smaller ones.

imagine if they put 2 blueprints in tournament one in chest 5 or 6 and one in chest 10 or just move it down a few chest
while the bigger fellowship will still get more rewards it will not but a destructive pressure to smaller fellowships and it will allow more of them to exist and prosper.

thats why i said in adventure not put a static first 10 puts a 10% will win buildings which will allow a flexibility to more to win and the more fellowships are in game more will get that prices so once more you reward the stronger one. but you are reducing the destructive force between the fellowships

more fellowships more players more players more income for the company

thats was the topic and the discussion around. how the game not enter in an imploding circle

and the only way to not enter in a imploding circle is too allow more fellowships to exist and thrive and to do that you need to balance the rewards given

when players get no sense of connection to the fellowship and just see it as a mean to get more it will not stop them to keep changing all the time if they feel they are loosing rewards.

the stronger fellowships will be the last to feel the problem but eventually the player pool will drain even for them , because lets face it they do not want any player they want a player at specific strength so they can keep getting max rewards.

and since players no matter what new feature the company will introduce will stop the game , after 2.4.5 what ever number of years a player will have enough and stop the game., a few of them many return after a period of time to play again, which mean if the game can not replenish the old players with new ones it will go into a spiral of fewer and fewer and fewer players.

it is a nice game. you can have fun and it will be a shame to go the route of some many other games.

 

[m4rt1n]

To answer the thread question, my opinion is no, the game is not eating itself, relax, find a nice fellowship and enjoy playing Elvenar.

 

[Errandil]

first of all you reply to something i did not say i said in fellowship adventure there are some extra rewards for the first 10 fellowships, you just ignore that and go out saying that all can get some rewards?? NO THEY CAN NOT get the same rewards even if my fellowship finish all 3 times the adventure but finish rank 11 or lower it will not take the same rewards.

I would agree with this point more if these rewards were something relevant like blueprints and could help with the city development. As it is now they are only for bragging rights and there's nothing wrong them being limited to top-10 fellowships. All the rewards that can influence your growth are independent from the performance of other fellowships and can be earned just from reaching certain criteria. If you are so keen about the FAs I'm sure that you can find a fellowship that's focusing on them, because let's be honest, after actively participating in two or three FAs there aren't many enthusiasts who want to ever do more than one path each stage. Sitting in the pit for five days and doing breweries isn't the best experience this game can offer.

going chest 4 in tournament will be very hard to impossible for a new fellowship with new players. even chest 3 is an achievement for them.

At the point in game where three chests is an achievement you don't really need RR spells, because 148 points from each player in the FS, even 185 if the FS has only 20 players is doable at almost any size of the city. When I joined my first FS being around chapter 2 I've started scoring 500+ points right away because of all the free KP, runes, spells and relics I could get.

unless you are the one that made the fellowship if given the chance to go a 10 chest tournament fellowship everyone will take the offer and change fellowship so spare me the game is for years, if that was true big fellowships would have the same problem recruiting members as new ones, but we know they do not have

From my personal experience that's not exactly true, people tend to stay where they are if they have a nice company around and change fellowship only if they are dissatisfied with the level of activity there. That doesn't mean that the FS has to be 10-chest, it just means that everyone should work towards the same goals. Simply not having the players who ignore the tournaments or do only one province to get the rewards already helps.

Also you can't argue at the same time that big fellowships are taking all the good players and that the game is limiting the amount of players because there isn't enough space in the top fellowships for everyone. Not to mention that I see fellowships that are growing towards or have already got to getting 10 chests rather often. So it's not like it's an impossible task that can't be achieved by a new fellowship, it just takes time and patience.

 

[m4rt1n]

?Unless you are the one that made the fellowship, I joined the Elvinears as a new city 3 years ago, the AM never played but the creator of the fellowship did. We made 3 or 4 chests a week in the tournaments for a long time. Members played, members left, eventually I asked support as the AM had not played for 6 months and they gave it to me, I gave it back to the original who still plays, and now we are still sharing that AM position years later. Nothing special, just have 25 players who are playing, remove players who are not and advertise, Its that easy.

 

[DeletedUser7580]

I agree with the original poster. The game rewards top 10, which are always the same fellowships. There are rewards only super strong fellowships can achieve. These are cancerous game mechanics. I have seen many games fail because of some form of the same thing. The game should encourage strong players to start there own fellowships and make all rewards get-able some how. Maybe a random lucky chance, not having to achieve something that is only achievable by a few.

 

[m4rt1n]

I agree with the original poster. The game rewards top 10, which are always the same fellowships. There are rewards only super strong fellowships can achieve. These are cancerous game mechanics. I have seen many games fail because of some form of the same thing. The game should encourage strong players to start there own fellowships and make all rewards get-able some how. Maybe a random lucky chance, not having to achieve something that is only achievable by a few.

Those same fellowships have places, message them and ask to join.. and if you read my post at all we are around the 100 spot for fellowships.

 

[m4rt1n]

Guys, if you put as much effort into asking fellowships to join as you do here complaining, you will be fellows of the said fellowships.
Some guys especially @ANIKHTOS go out of their way to be internet trolls and upset other player after weeks of advice and just feed on feedback sadly.

 

[DeletedUser7580]

Those same fellowships have places, message them and ask to join.. and if you read my post at all we are around the 100 spot for fellowships.

I like my fellowship and the people I play with. That's not the point. The point is not having game mechanics that are detrimental to the game. Not me jumping into a top 10 (or whatever) fellowship.

 

[m4rt1n]

I like my fellowship and the people I play with. That's not the point. The point is not having game mechanics that are detrimental to the game. Not me jumping into a top 10 (or whatever) fellowship.

Ok, sorry I do not understand, we have new cities through to established cities, maybe message me as this is a thread made by another member, you could click the green x and make your own thread with the question.

Edit, green x was old forum software, now I think you can create from the menu.

 

[Errandil]

I agree with the original poster. The game rewards top 10, which are always the same fellowships. There are rewards only super strong fellowships can achieve. These are cancerous game mechanics. I have seen many games fail because of some form of the same thing. The game should encourage strong players to start there own fellowships and make all rewards get-able some how. Maybe a random lucky chance, not having to achieve something that is only achievable by a few.

The game rewards reaching certain thresholds, like 40k points in the tournaments. Rewards for the first 10 places in the FA are really irrelevant for the game. And no, it's not the same ten fellowships each time and sometimes it's even not the top fellowships, one of the FSs in top-10 from the previous FA is ranked 117.

 

[ANIKHTOS]

To answer the thread question, my opinion is no, the game is not eating itself, relax, find a nice fellowship and enjoy playing Elvenar.

what you describe is what i said as cannibalizing the game
go find a good fellowship is the cannibalizing mate
that the problem you push players to go to stronger and stronger fellowships or they feel left out

was it another player that said they take new players help them grow and when they are stronger they go to a better fellowship thus their fellowship ca not grow?

how is not that cannibalizing
and once more what can be true to 1 2 3 payers can not be true for all
there are how many active players 1000?? 2000?? there are not so many good fellowship to go

when i join the game and enter the forum
i got ZERO offer when i introduce myself in the game to join not a good fellowship but any fellowship

throwing a blank statement join a better fellowship
but that the problem i am describing

players move to better fellowship small and medium fellowships are destroyed and forced to close down
and then the new players enter in a game where they have to start a fellowship which will be super weak and the frustration will kick in super fast

we are 10 people that play in me fellowship so far, number change every day
can we all move to a fellowship? and what will happen if we all move to that fellowship first it will no longer tbe a level 10 chest since we are too weak

i kept another game going for 2 years, and why? because of the bonds we created as players inside the fellowships and with our allies. we used team speak where we made friendship and because of that we joined team-speak to speak with our friends and we push each other to keep playing the game

where there players that where moving all time to be in a better fellowship yeah
and they where the first to quit the game since they never bond not to the game not with the other people playing the game
the first moment they could not find a go do fellowship and felt they where musing they left the game

there where times my allied fellowships had 2 active players but i kept them as allies and gave them the time to find new players or wait a bit and some old players re start the game, i kept these fellowship going while others just disappear for ever

as i said the pursuit for a better fellowship is the cannibalizing of he game and pushes the game to have less and less fellowships which means in effect less people for the game in total

form one side you say the game is to be played for years and then you say move to a better fellowship?
what is it mate?
is it a game of patient so you stay in your fellowship and you make it strong or it is nto a game of patient and you just blow where the wind goes?

or you are hear to throw blank and wrong statements ?

did i said i want the reward to be easier so all get them NO
i just said some rewards need to be re arranged so it will give a psychological boost
in the end the bigger fellowships will get more but it will give a space for small and middle to exist

you said its a game of patient
but did you say congratulation anikhtos for making your won fellowship and try to build it up form the ground?
nope you just say the same wrong phrase change fellowship as that can solve any problems
IT CAN NOT
not all people can moove to a better fellowship its impossible
i am proposing something that will benefit all players while you say something that will be the exception not the rule

 

[ANIKHTOS]

Guys, if you put as much effort into asking fellowships to join as you do here complaining, you will be fellows of the said fellowships.
Some guys especially @ANIKHTOS go out of their way to be internet trolls and upset other player after weeks of advice and just feed on feedback sadly.

mate having an opinion different form you is not trolling
gee you did not ever go to school and know what a debate is?
i have an opinion i said tits perfectly fine for you to disagree and have a different opinion
going out of your way to insult me and call me a troll well thats intellectual dishonesty and shows you do not know to hold a conversation no have anything of substance to say
and if you consider me a troll do not bother read my threads
as long it is a free country and people have the right to express an opinion i will do so


you go out of your way to come here, spent no effort to read what i say
just to post the same message you post all over that i am a troll
your life must really be miserable

 

[AstralSoul]

What blows my mind @ANIKHTOS is the amount of time you have to write those posts. Jesus Christ enjoy the game

I assume you do not have a business, job yet?

The game is hard for beginners, and we all started one day. Fights gets easier as you keep going, to then face new requirements such as orc spending, and decay on your goods such as mana, and seeds. Just enjoy the game, explore as you grow. As hard as it looks, we all move forward