DeletedUser7324
Guest
I don't recall ever using the vallorian guards in battle with much success, also do they ever get more than one star? I am beginning to wonder if this building very useful at all and would love to hear your voices on this...
-
Good day, Stranger! — Are you new to our forums?
Have I seen you here before? To participate in or to create forum discussions, you will need your own forum account. Register your account here!
LazyTony
Sorcerer
I found Vallorian Valor useful for a while after I got the 2 star tech upgrade done, but that was quite a while ago ( I am at the end the tech tree) and they have become pretty useless again for me. A new chapter will probably include a 3 star upgrade, and they will be useful again.
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
Keep in mind that with having all max level wonders LazyTony is playing a different game than we are.
I find vallorian valor to be immensely useful, same goes for the Grounds of the orc strategist.
If your barracks/TG/merc are at max level then there is nothing you can do to train more troops each week...except these buildings and wonders.
I have enough VV and GoToS that I never have to train Heavy Melee or Heavy Ranged and that takes care of 4 of 9 tournament weeks allowing me to train more troops for the other 5 weeks.
I find vallorian valor to be immensely useful, same goes for the Grounds of the orc strategist.
If your barracks/TG/merc are at max level then there is nothing you can do to train more troops each week...except these buildings and wonders.
I have enough VV and GoToS that I never have to train Heavy Melee or Heavy Ranged and that takes care of 4 of 9 tournament weeks allowing me to train more troops for the other 5 weeks.
Deleted User - 1759805
Guest
By the same token, SoggyShorts is also playing a different game than we are
Most people won't find space to build that many VV/GoToS as Soggy, especially when still doing guest races and not having as many space-saving event buildings. So for most people generated troops are not material in the grand scheme of things. If you fight manually, and find that a small number of specops troops can make a difference - go for it. Otherwise, I find that they're not worth the bother if you only have 1-2 buildings.Deleted User - 341074
Guest
I'm still playing the same game but with a slightly different strategy than others. The key is that my results are completely replicable.
That's not the same thing as having max level wonders which is technically impossible without tens of thousands of dollars or cheating.A few more points on my personal biases:
- I'm a the end of the tech tree
- I use about 20 expansions for guest races
- I get 95% of my goods from set buildings
- I almost always pick a mathematically superior building over a pretty one.
- I get 50% of my pop from event buildings and wonders
- I'm a purely free player
I do way too much in the tournament (4-5K) due to boredom so 10 Gotos and 10 VV is overkill 4 or 5 of each would be plenty enough to have an impact.
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser7901
Guest
I have two and upgrade each chapter, so far a handy extra
LazyTony
Sorcerer
Orc strategists are brilliant at the end of the tech tree, because they just got a 3 star upgrade, So brilliant in fact, I can't make enough orcs to train them and may start crafting strategist producing buildings. Vallorian Valor are rubbish, golems or strategists will always get better battle results at the current end of the tech tree. Soggy would be much better off replacing his VV buildings with strategist buildings. As the toads wonder applies the same bonus to golems, VV and strategists, its level is irrelevant when comparing the 3 troop types. I suspect if we were discussing how to make a cup of tea Soggy would stalk the forum of a server he doesn't play on to mention how tea making is improved by wonder levels.
To get back on topic, the value of troop types change as you progress in the tech tree, and as the OP mentioned one star VV, my advice would be to wait until he\she gets the 2 star upgrade and then tries them again, and I suspect with a lot more success.
To get back on topic, the value of troop types change as you progress in the tech tree, and as the OP mentioned one star VV, my advice would be to wait until he\she gets the 2 star upgrade and then tries them again, and I suspect with a lot more success.
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
Nonsense. If I did that I would have to train my own heavy melee and have way too many heavy ranged. A totally unbalanced approach and inherently inferior.
You can't actually be saying that having wonders which increase troop production in your barracks/merc/TG by almost 100% doesn't affect how useful other buildings are in comparrison
Last edited by a moderator:
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
This is a fair point, but if you do have extra space then a handful of VV and Gotos is still better than nothing
RainbowElvira
Sorcerer
I think you mixed something up. Golems and Orc Strategists are heavy ranged and are boosted by the Temple of the Toads. The VV produces Vallorian Guards, and those are heavy melee.
My 3 *** Treants do not feel much superior to 2 ** Vallorians.
LazyTony
Sorcerer
Aah, yep you're right, the best anti heavy ranged troop at the end of the tech tree are banshees. VV are still rubbish.
And soggy is confusing average cost with marginal cost, and also comparing a player with level 0 wonders with a player with max level wonders, one an honest mistake, one a disingenuous exaggeration.
And soggy is confusing average cost with marginal cost, and also comparing a player with level 0 wonders with a player with max level wonders, one an honest mistake, one a disingenuous exaggeration.
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/290507757f324879acd6fdf62bfed90d/
https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/3076b9a863eb408998a1edf5099c888d/
Level 4 needles vs level 30
Level 0 Flying academy vs 27
Level 0 victory springs vs level 29
You really do need to be just a touch more cognizant of your advantages
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
Each of those wonders increases the number of troops you produce which make the VV less valuable.
EG
If you make 5,000 troops per week and a VV adds 500 that's a 10% increase--yay vallors!
If you make 10,000 troops per week and a VV adds 500 that's a 5% increase--meh vallors
LazyTony
Sorcerer
None of which makes VV more likely to win a fight.
If we are discussing efficiency rather than the odds of winning an encounter, then the opportunity/marginal cost is the correct approach, not the average cost you are using. The opportunity cost of VV produced in the training queue is banshees, who will do much better than VV vs heavy ranged at our stage in the tech tree. The opportunity cost of VV produced in those craftable buildings (I forget the name) is the space used - it could be used for more goods production, or, as I would recommend, for more orc strategists in their craftable building.
If we are discussing efficiency rather than the odds of winning an encounter, then the opportunity/marginal cost is the correct approach, not the average cost you are using. The opportunity cost of VV produced in the training queue is banshees, who will do much better than VV vs heavy ranged at our stage in the tech tree. The opportunity cost of VV produced in those craftable buildings (I forget the name) is the space used - it could be used for more goods production, or, as I would recommend, for more orc strategists in their craftable building.
Deleted User - 341074
Guest
Perhaps I'm being unclear...
The reason I can't simply replace my 10 Vallors with 10 more Grounds is that I would have twice the Heavy ranged that I need and none of the Heavy melee. So I would do what then? Produce more HM in my barracks? That means less of everything else.
If we're just talking about adding either 1 VV or 1 Gotos to a city, then sure, go for the gotos but it really isn't going to matter a whole lot.
If however, we are talking about a full strategy or at least a partial one then a balance is needed if your goal is consistent tournament results.
The reason I can't simply replace my 10 Vallors with 10 more Grounds is that I would have twice the Heavy ranged that I need and none of the Heavy melee. So I would do what then? Produce more HM in my barracks? That means less of everything else.
If we're just talking about adding either 1 VV or 1 Gotos to a city, then sure, go for the gotos but it really isn't going to matter a whole lot.
If however, we are talking about a full strategy or at least a partial one then a balance is needed if your goal is consistent tournament results.
m4rt1n
Adept
I use them as reserve troops. I'm chapter 14, but if your in chapter 1-5 they are amazing assassins and the building is worth it's weight in gold.
In chapter 14 the Vallorian Valor just takes a 3x3 space and gives me a few troops to fall back on. Far more important to me is my Grounds of the Orc Strategists, as I run out of Basic Orcs throughout the chapter yet the background collect works well to supply me when needed as a manual fighter.
In chapter 14 the Vallorian Valor just takes a 3x3 space and gives me a few troops to fall back on. Far more important to me is my Grounds of the Orc Strategists, as I run out of Basic Orcs throughout the chapter yet the background collect works well to supply me when needed as a manual fighter.
LazyTony
Sorcerer
Understood. I prefer to think of the troop types I have to counter enemy troop types, rather than how many troops I have of each category. For example, frogs and orc warriors are substitutes for each other (counter troops for light melee), Rangers and cerberus are substitutes (counter troops for mages), etc.
I might be a little too anal about always having the very best troop type available for each fight and not "making do" with a second best alternative. If I find myself using a second best alternative its because I haven't trained the correct proportions or maybe just because I am going too hard and need to save my resources for future tourneys.
I might be a little too anal about always having the very best troop type available for each fight and not "making do" with a second best alternative. If I find myself using a second best alternative its because I haven't trained the correct proportions or maybe just because I am going too hard and need to save my resources for future tourneys.
m4rt1n
Adept
Understood. I prefer to think of the troop types I have to counter enemy troop types, rather than how many troops I have of each category. For example, frogs and orc warriors are substitutes for each other (counter troops for light melee), Rangers and cerberus are substitutes (counter troops for mages), etc.
I might be a little too anal about always having the very best troop type available for each fight and not "making do" with a second best alternative. If I find myself using a second best alternative its because I haven't trained the correct proportions or maybe just because I am going too hard and need to save my resources for future tourneys.
I have to ask as a ch14 player have you found a use for the Frogs, less beneficial in range than a Mortar and die first hit. Mine are level 2 and are still a waste of training time.