Update Discussion Discussion: New Spìre of Eternity rewards.

[CrazyWizard]

Well, that is in fact exactly what happened when the 2019 Phoenixes, including the Fire Phoenix, were introduced. The Event concerned ran for less than a month, and it was easy at that time, even for a non-hardcore player such as myself and without spending anything on extra Event Currency, to acquire a fully upgraded Fire Phoenix simply by following the usual line-up of not-very-demanding Quests. Therefore I absolutely fail to see why new players - and those who either chose a different Phoenix originally and/or did not earn enough Artifacts to level up one Fire Phoenix - should now have to jump through far more difficult hoops in order to acquire a Level 10 Fire Phoenix than those of us who just happened to be around during 2019.

Ehhmm? just because you got lucky doesn't mean we all got,
At that time the general consensus was that you needed to spend at least a bit of money to get a full one.

I remember for example that I bought that outpost buildings so I had a better chance to get a fulle developed one. and was willing to spend extra of needed.

Last year phoenix event with the swap option many who had non (because the choose the wrong one or because it was a new world) spend a small fortune in diamonds to get one.

Disagree. The tournament got a complete overhaul long after the existence of the Fire Phoenix. I think it is safe to assume that the balancing was made with the bird in mind.

What has been before the tournament changes is now irrelevant.

I firmly believe that every player must have the opportunity to get a fully evolved Fire Phoenix without too much effort. Anything else is just unfair to new players. It's not nice to slam the door before their noses.

not the bird per se, but mostly the brow bear,
The difficulty doesn't rise at a certain point (only 1 percent per province) but what does rise a lot is the use of units for a fight (brown bear)

The phoenix can be "easily" replaced by another LR and Mage combat building. but you cannot replace a trillion units.

Also on the bottom end, they made it way way way way way way way easier, there is a reason a lot more guilds get 10 chests now the prevously even if it wans't difficult in the first place, they made the bottom part so easy (no fire bird needed) that you get those points anyway even without any effort.

a fight agains an enemy 12.5% your strength ain't that hard is it? even if you use treants agains archers.

 

[Gargon667]

Disagree. The tournament got a complete overhaul long after the existence of the Fire Phoenix. I think it is safe to assume that the balancing was made with the bird in mind.

The tourney needed an overhaul, because over the course of something like 2 years tourneys had become ridiculously easy for the top end of tourney players. There were only 2 limitations to the score in the tourney: The number of available provinces and the willingness to click a silly amount of times to finish them all. It had nothing whatsoever to do with fighting.
The firebird was only one of a whole bunch of reasons for that. The first one I think was the invention of the MA with the availability of 5 day boosters. Chapter 14 with Timewarp and Simia and 3 star Blossom Mages, chapter 15 with the 3 star upgrades for Frogs and Rangers as well big upgrades for both Merc Camp and Barracks, the firebird sure also was one. Then the brown bear (and even Polar bear). Also the endless quest events played a big role by producing near unlimited KP and timeboosts.
In the end we had lots of really strong units that could fight without loosing much at all, those units were further boosted in damage and HP, while we had bigger and bigger numbers of them, while tourney stayed the same throughout the entire time.

Inno was actually rather "nice" in that they didn´t make tourneys harder for everybody, but actually made it easier for low achieving towns on top of how easy it already was. Which results in absolutely everybody with half an interest to achieve 10 chests every week. And these 10 chests don´t depend on having any special setup for tourneys at all. All these aforementioned boosts we have received are only necessary for those that have far higher ambitions than 10 chests.
I am not saying new towns shouldn´t have a chance to get every single one of these boosts, but I personally see no reason why it shouldn´t take a while. After all they won´t have the number of provinces where it matters for quite a while anyway. I personally think it is better if towns don´t start with hypercharged troops and get no improvements later on, because they will learn nothing about fighting, as they can win every fight blindly for a while. When they acquire more and more provinces the tourneys get difficult, then they´ll start complaining when they run into a wall, because nothing they do works anymore. If boosters would become available slowly over the timespan of say a year, tourneys would start out requiring at least a minimum amount of knowledge/learning and increase in difficulty while their unit quality/numbers get intermediate boosters to keep up with the difficulty while on the long road to chapter 14/15.

 

[StarZ arc]

I'm not one to moan

This is my 3rd completed Spire and still no Phoenix Artifact

I might as well use that space for something more worthwhile

#JustSaying
#WhatsThePoint

 

[SilverLunar]

I am not saying new towns shouldn´t have a chance to get every single one of these boosts, but I personally see no reason why it shouldn´t take a while. After all they won´t have the number of provinces where it matters for quite a while anyway. I personally think it is better if towns don´t start with hyper charged troops and get no improvements later on, because they will learn nothing about fighting, as they can win every fight blindly for a while. When they acquire more and more provinces the tourneys get difficult, then they´ll start complaining when they run into a wall, because nothing they do works anymore. If boosters would become available slowly over the timespan of say a year, tourneys would start out requiring at least a minimum amount of knowledge/learning and increase in difficulty while their unit quality/numbers get intermediate boosters to keep up with the difficulty while on the long road to chapter 14/15.

I agree that new towns need take a while to know the meta of the game, but how long?
Ex: What about a player in chapter 3 can get full artifacts in while a player in chapter 13 only got 1? And both of them join the game after the Phoenix event?

Player join the game after the Phoenix event & don't have the event-buildings => It's okay.
But, what's the different between a 2 players with 1 month variant? Earlier player can get a powerful building that the late join will never have, because they know the game sooner the other?

Give artifact to the Spire make late-join player have a opportunity to get the building in the past event that the couldn't join. But with this trash RNG system, this total make a different mean, it's not a chance, it's a Troll to not-old but not-new players.

In my opinion, this scheme does not make sense. As my above example, player in chapter 3 can play a few months next after they got stuck when the game harder & quit, because the got boosted to soon. And the player in chapter 13 quit too, because they feel tired, play more than the new comers but get lesser.

RNG appear in almost the games, but the matter is the percentage & how it work. As SoggyShorts Said

I do not like
Average 5 with Common Results of 1 and 9

I'm fine with
Average 5.5 with Common Results of 4 and 7

That just my think, not realistic, I don't know the statistics of the game, may be the players, the revenue still growth => so Inno can continuous with their plan. If you still happy with their rule => enjoy the game, if don't => quit.

 

[Gargon667]

I am not quite sure what you are saying, but you cannot compare a chapter 3 to a chapter 13 town. And btw any chapter 13 town already has had a chance for a Firebird and if they don´t have it it is their own fault and not the games So all they need may be a topup in case they didn´t play last phoenix event fully etc... Not sure why finishing up their Firebird would make them quit, but I am sure some people will always quit playing no matter what happens in the game.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

That just my think, not realistic

I don't quite understand what's not realistic about it.

If everyone flips a coin 2x then 25% of people will get all heads and a 25% will get 0 heads.
If everyone flips 100coins then almost everyone gets between 40 and 60 heads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution

Changing the distribution is a realistic option as far as I can tell, and it could be as simple as giving more, lower chances but could be done in as complicated a way as liked by introducing diminishing odds:
E.G. if you have a 50% chance to win an artifact then when you win one your next chance drops to 25% or if you don't win your next chance increases to 75%.

 

[DeletedUser9850]

You say that, but many people haven't received a single artefact, every week so far.

That's sooo much unlucky.I would be in a hell of depression if that happened to me

 

[DeletedUser9850]

Well, that is in fact exactly what happened when the 2019 Phoenixes, including the Fire Phoenix, were introduced. The Event concerned ran for less than a month, and it was easy at that time, even for a non-hardcore player such as myself and without spending anything on extra Event Currency, to acquire a fully upgraded Fire Phoenix simply by following the usual line-up of not-very-demanding Quests. Therefore I absolutely fail to see why new players - and those who either chose a different Phoenix originally and/or did not earn enough Artifacts to level up one Fire Phoenix - should now have to jump through far more difficult hoops in order to acquire a Level 10 Fire Phoenix than those of us who just happened to be around during 2019.

There are many games which re-run old Events (or Quests, or any other in-game method of earning particularly valuable items) exclusively for players who do not already own the item(s) in question. I see no reason why this should not be done in Elvenar as well, thus giving all players the chance to win a fully levelled Fire Phoenix via the same effort which existing Phoenix owners put in - and with the same degree of certainty, as well (as opposed to relying on pure chance, which I consider to be a particularly unfair system). If the game allows for individually tailored Diamond sale offers to be presented to different players, as we know is the case, then I see no reason why individually tailored Quests/Events could not also be implemented.

Elvenar would be so much easy then.Then how dous Elvenar stay challenging??Like it's now

 

[DeletedUser9850]

I wonder,if the phoenix event will also end up being like the bear event.We won't possibly see the 3 phoenixes again

 

[CrazyWizard]

A challenge is for a new player to reach the top of the spire, not to reach it 6 times and get none.
I just got my 11th artefact. why?

I got 11 artefacts 0 dwarven armouries. I don't need artefacts, I need armouries
I ams sure someone here likes to trade those odds the other way around.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I don't quite understand what's not realistic about it.

If everyone flips a coin 2x then 25% of people will get all heads and a 25% will get 0 heads.
If everyone flips 100coins then almost everyone gets between 40 and 60 heads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution

Changing the distribution is a realistic option as far as I can tell, and it could be as simple as giving more, lower chances but could be done in as complicated a way as liked by introducing diminishing odds:
E.G. if you have a 50% chance to win an artifact then when you win one your next chance drops to 25% or if you don't win your next chance increases to 75%.

looks like this is no longer an issue for the phoenix, on beta it was announced we can swap artefacts again, so this was not "the opportunity) but a nice extra. the real opportunity seems to come in the event. I am glad they did this.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

ooks like this is no longer an issue for the phoenix, on beta it was announced we can swap artefacts again, so this was not "the opportunity) but a nice extra. the real opportunity seems to come in the event. I am glad they did this.

Well... it's less of an issue.
Assuming the conversion is 2:1 like it was in the past,

players who got 9 artifacts from the spire will need to convert nothing
players who got 0 artifacts from the spire will need to max out the event, convert all 10 artifacts to 5 old ones and still end up with a half-leveled phoenix.

Better, but I don't think this is ideal.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Well... it's less of an issue.
Assuming the conversion is 2:1 like it was in the past,

players who got 9 artifacts from the spire will need to convert nothing
players who got 0 artifacts from the spire will need to max out the event, convert all 10 artifacts to 5 old ones and still end up with a half-leveled phoenix.

Better, but I don't think this is ideal.

since this option returned I have seen the spire as a teaser, an appetiser. and for that it was pretty good.

Now the main event will come in a few weeks.
Yes 2:1 conversions and 3 blueprints + spellfragments for an artefact.
This means if you want a level 10, you can, it might need some investment for example in diamonds but you can get that one on level 10 even with the worst luck. the spire rewards just means you in general have it easier to get it to 10 without the payment options.

And if you want both prizes you can always go for the payment option on the fire phoenix and keep you new shiny one.

 

[DeletedUser9850]

Can I wish to see artifacts of witch's hut and bears too??

 

[Gargon667]

Can I wish to see artifacts of witch's hut and bears too??

If they continue the pattern we get 6 weeks Stonehenge now, then 6 weeks Mermaids, then 6 week bears after that, The witch hut will be quite a while in the future though...

 

[DeletedUser9850]

If they continue the pattern we get 6 weeks Stonehenge now, then 6 weeks Mermaids, then 6 week bears after that, The witch hut will be quite a while in the future though...

Just wish those come.

 

[Lelanya]

Sure. Those will be hotly anticipated. I like your new profile pic Harry

 

[SilverLunar]

I am not quite sure what you are saying, but you cannot compare a chapter 3 to a chapter 13 town. And btw any chapter 13 town already has had a chance for a Firebird and if they don´t have it it is their own fault and not the games So all they need may be a topup in case they didn´t play last phoenix event fully etc... Not sure why finishing up their Firebird would make them quit, but I am sure some people will always quit playing no matter what happens in the game.

Why a chapter 13 town must have chance to get Firebird? They join the game after the phoenix event, why that's their fault?

So, they can't play the event, and have chance to get the item, but they can't not get it with the percentage like a lottery => their fault again, because they're bad luck people.

They quit because they wonder, with the low % RNG maybe they won't get any good item, despite of they play the game more than the others.

As I said, that's my example, but it can happen.

Can you imaging that you complete the Spire, and you have 9 chances to got the item, but the result is 0.
The other only do the 1st FL and got 2 items.

The first week, that's ok, my bad luck on this week, try again in next week.
And that thing repeat in 6 weeks?

I believe you'll depressed.

Personally, I think PRD is a better approach than RNG in theses event like this.

 

[Gargon667]

Why a chapter 13 town must have chance to get Firebird? They join the game after the phoenix event, why that's their fault?

Because they´ve been around long enough to have played last Phoenix event and therefore had their chance for a fully (or close to) evolved Firebird 1 year ago. I doubt there are many towns that reach chapter 13 in less than 1 year of playing. It is possible of course, but not common. While it is even more common that people play slower than that, anyone who has played for 2 years has already had 2 chances for a fully evolved Firebird before the 6 weeks of artifacts, which means that was the third chance (and the first time the random effect was high), and in a week or 2 the 4th chance will start (again with a low random effect)

 

[Pauly7]

I doubt there are many towns that reach chapter 13 in less than 1 year of playing.

In my Beta city I've gone to chapter 11 in 9 months so I may just about meet that target, but yeah you're right, because I'm not sure how you could go much faster than that.