AW's level influence on hardness of fights ?

[DeletedUser]

In all cases you loose for example 10% of your SS in a battle.

But depending on your city your SS can be twice, trice or even more than that.
here an example of a battle in my city that I am doing right now
View attachment 5376
Imagine another player in the same chapter having 1/3 of the tournament SS
10% of 5*120K = 60.000 = 13.7 squads

10% of 5*40K = 20.000 = 4.5 squads

Thats a pretty big difference between 2 players in the same chapter.

In general, combat wonders are beneficial, assuming you are a fighter.
All the others will be detrimental for your fighting abilities.

Just as a starting point; Is it even possible to have that big a difference in the real world ?

And another question; How real has the difference been, i mean how much bigger have the losses really been ?

One thing is to speculate about these things, another one is how it plays out in the real world.

And regarding wonders; Then i'm *uck'ed - I have goods boosting AW's

But that's how that is. I just care about how much an upgrade to a wonder effects a fight. If i still come out on top, and upgrading the wonder has given me a little bit more; Then it's a win. - It's another matter if it doesn't add-up to what i meet in a fight, if the wonders actually make me loose more than i gain from upgrading it.

In regards to that, we have talked about the Monastery/Sanctuary. But what about fighting boosting AW's like Dragon Abbey. I know there's the mana site to it, but does the boost in fighting strength for Mages add-up for the potential troops lose ?

 

[Wibbly Woo]

So the 0.45 was after the 0.30 reduction ?

I can't see my main city Monastery at the moment, it's upgrading, but my ch12 city is at level 8; 110.5%

How does this add up, or is understood ?

The 0.45 was indeed after the 0.3 reduction. Note that is only on the first exchange of fire, it will in fact be bigger on the second and subsequent rounds due to you having more troops firing and reducing the enemy faster.

Level 8 is 2.4% increase in costs due to wonder levels, or 2.4% increase in absolute casualties. The Wonder, however, is giving your troops as 10.5% increase in HPs, or a 10.5% reduction in casualties, giving a net reduction in casualties of 8.1% on the first exchange of fire.

And yes, my calculations are not quite correct, I am getting rough ballparks here.

The most important thing is to have fun. If you are happy with your spire and tournament performance, and are enjoying the game building your wonders, just carry on doing what you are doing. Don’t get hung up on optimal play to the point you stop enjoying the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

The 0.45 was indeed after the 0.3 reduction. Note that is only on the first exchange of fire, it will in fact be bigger on the second and subsequent rounds due to you having more troops firing and reducing the enemy faster.

Level 8 is 2.4% increase in costs due to wonder levels, or 2.4% increase in absolute casualties. The Wonder, however, is giving your troops as 10.5% increase in HPs, or a 10.5% reduction in casualties, giving a net reduction in casualties of 8.1% on the first exchange of fire.

And yes, my calculations are not quite correct, I am getting rough ballparks here.

The most important thing is to have fun. If you are happy with your spire and tournament performance, and are enjoying the game building your wonders, just carry on doing what you are doing. Don’t get hung up on optimal play to the point you stop enjoying the game.

The last thing i'm very aware of - That's why i trying to figure out how this all works, so i can find the sweet spot for me

It's actually why i started fighting. I know this affects catering costs too. But when i left the game 1½ year ago, i only catered and have done so all the first 14 chapters. When i returned, i wanted to not have to produce so many goods all the time, and when i left i always had way to many supplies - so why not take two birds with one stone

EDIT; Wasn't done, clicked the wrong button

And yes, i'm very happy with what i can do now in tournament and spire. I have well enough troops to go 10 provinces, 6 rounds, and also enough goods + some troops for the easy fights to go to the top of the spire.

And from time to time, when there's to many goods i will do more rounds in tournament. But also when my troop producing buildings are all upgraded; Then why not get the KP's

 

[CrazyWizard]

Just as a starting point; Is it even possible to have that big a difference in the real world ?

And another question; How real has the difference been, i mean how much bigger have the losses really been ?

One thing is to speculate about these things, another one is how it plays out in the real world.

And regarding wonders; Then i'm *uck'ed - I have goods boosting AW's

But that's how that is. I just care about how much an upgrade to a wonder effects a fight. If i still come out on top, and upgrading the wonder has given me a little bit more; Then it's a win. - It's another matter if it doesn't add-up to what i meet in a fight, if the wonders actually make me loose more than i gain from upgrading it.

In regards to that, we have talked about the Monastery/Sanctuary. But what about fighting boosting AW's like Dragon Abbey. I know there's the mana site to it, but does the boost in fighting strength for Mages add-up for the potential troops lose ?

Ehmm yes it's very possible. it only requires 1 variable.
Wonderlevels.

The max difference between 0 en 1080 wonderlevels = 3.42x the SS
Off course that alone it a bit of a stretch but combine a 333 wonderlevels vs 666 wonderlevels and we are already at a difference of 33%
Then imagine the 666 wonderlevel player have a little bit more expansions. and you easily double or triple the SS of the player with less wonderlevels and expansions as these values multiply and are not just added.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hmm, so they want us to play, but don't want us to play

I though do understand why they do this - They could just have in so many other ways slowed progression chapterwise. Though that number of players can't be that significant that do go insane amounts of provinces and thereby harvest 100's of KP's each tournament. Let them scream, it's their own problem that they ran to fast to the end - "God, you're an idiot, why is there no more land ??"

But it's an odd way of doing it. Making the first part easier so we faster get to the point where there's no point in playing anymore because the rest has been handicapped beyond recognition.

I found this on the US forum: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-changes-community-feedback-and-data.25576/

And i can see why i don't have problems doing what i want. I don't go beyond province 20 or 30. If i do my 10-20, it's not that big of a problem, though catering still is insanely expensive beyond a point, maybe province 15 or so.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Hmm, so they want us to play, but don't want us to play

I though do understand why they do this - They could just have in so many other ways slowed progression chapterwise. Though that number of players can't be that significant that do go insane amounts of provinces and thereby harvest 100's of KP's each tournament. Let them scream, it's their own problem that they ran to fast to the end - "God, you're an idiot, why is there no more land ??"

But it's an odd way of doing it. Making the first part easier so we faster get to the point where there's no point in playing anymore because the rest has been handicapped beyond recognition.

I found this on the US forum: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-changes-community-feedback-and-data.25576/

And i can see why i don't have problems doing what i want. I don't go beyond province 20 or 30. If i do my 10-20, it's not that big of a problem, though catering still is insanely expensive beyond a point, maybe province 15 or so.

true first 10 provincies most likely will never be affected.
Currently we see on one side production rise with 30% and on the other side costs rais with 80% over 3 chapters.
With this pace it means every chapter the max possible limit will become lower and lower.

Those most fanatic will feel this issue the first, but as the bar gets lower and lower more and more players will experience the issue.
At some point even province 10-20 will be very affected by the issue. when? it depends on your city build some might already experience it while others are still far away.

 

[DeletedUser]

I had a look at MinMax's calculator and changed AW from 227 to 228.

So if that's correct, then round 1, province 1, gets a bump equal to the province number in units. So does the next 5. At province 7, the bumps is 8 more, not 7. It goes on up till 15 where it jumps again, and to 17.

So it looks as each AW level adds unit according to province numbers.

EDIT: And enemy grows faster than that.

 

[DeletedUser]

true first 10 provincies most likely will never be affected.
Currently we see on one side production rise with 30% and on the other side costs rais with 80% over 3 chapters.
With this pace it means every chapter the max possible limit will become lower and lower.

Those most fanatic will feel this issue the first, but as the bar gets lower and lower more and more players will experience the issue.
At some point even province 10-20 will be very affected by the issue. when? it depends on your city build some might already experience it while others are still far away.

Well, i can see that i'm in NO hurry AT ALL to get one with ch15. I will do the research to get my 3* units from it and then leave it with that. I don't need the rest. I don't play for running through thru the chapters. I'm not sure i should start asking myself why i play; I might end up stopping again But for now i'll stay, i'm in a good FS

 

[Gargon667]

I think this discussion really is way above your pay-grade @Elivar. If all you want is 10 or 15 provinces you really don´t need to waste your time and effort on details. You´ll do just fine, no matter what you do. For that you really need nothing but the will to do it. If that was my goal I would largely ignore AWs, only upgrade them if I had absolutely nothing better to do, but then of course the military ones only (preferably those of general rather than specialist impact, like MM, Needles, FA, Simia)

If you´re actually interested though, then this thread here is way oversimplified and there simply is no answer to your question.

There is no way to answer, because there are so many variables that all interact. The starting SS is just one of them.
But just to use it as an example: others have already explained that the starting SS determines the cost of your tourney, but not its difficulty. Military AWs, do actually decrease difficulty. Which means the AW levels keep your loosing percentage the same (only the percentage will be of a bigger amount), while the AW benefits will decrease the percentage of loss (while keeping the amount the same), you simply cannot compare the 2. They all depend on other things (like the starting amount, which constantly changes as). Or maybe it makes sense if I say, higher AWs can make you win fights that you would otherwise lose, so it allows you to go further in tourneys. Having fewer AWs will never make you win a fight you would otherwise loose, but it leaves you with more troops in your army camp so you can keep fighting longer. The effect may seem the same while you win, but at the point when you start loosing fights it stops to work. You can´t win fights by throwing in more troops, you need better troops.

I skip all the other variables because this post would become endless...

I would say the closest one can get to an answer might be looking at the results. I think most people that do well in tourneys have rather more military AWs and rather fewer non-military AWs than other towns, but of course there will be many exceptions to this rule, since those are not the only factors of importance. I think if you take the Top 5 (or whatever number you choose) tourney players (by average, not 1 time score) on your server and look at which AWs they have and which ones they don´t have, you may get a good idea what works. Obviously you can do the same with anything else you´re interested in...

 

[DeletedUser]

I think this discussion really is way above your pay-grade @Elivar. If all you want is 10 or 15 provinces you really don´t need to waste your time and effort on details. You´ll do just fine, no matter what you do. For that you really need nothing but the will to do it. If that was my goal I would largely ignore AWs, only upgrade them if I had absolutely nothing better to do, but then of course the military ones only (preferably those of general rather than specialist impact, like MM, Needles, FA, Simia)

If you´re actually interested though, then this thread here is way oversimplified and there simply is no answer to your question.

There is no way to answer, because there are so many variables that all interact. The starting SS is just one of them.
But just to use it as an example: others have already explained that the starting SS determines the cost of your tourney, but not its difficulty. Military AWs, do actually decrease difficulty. Which means the AW levels keep your loosing percentage the same (only the percentage will be of a bigger amount), while the AW benefits will decrease the percentage of loss (while keeping the amount the same), you simply cannot compare the 2. They all depend on other things (like the starting amount, which constantly changes as). Or maybe it makes sense if I say, higher AWs can make you win fights that you would otherwise lose, so it allows you to go further in tourneys. Having fewer AWs will never make you win a fight you would otherwise loose, but it leaves you with more troops in your army camp so you can keep fighting longer. The effect may seem the same while you win, but at the point when you start loosing fights it stops to work. You can´t win fights by throwing in more troops, you need better troops.

I skip all the other variables because this post would become endless...

I would say the closest one can get to an answer might be looking at the results. I think most people that do well in tourneys have rather more military AWs and rather fewer non-military AWs than other towns, but of course there will be many exceptions to this rule, since those are not the only factors of importance. I think if you take the Top 5 (or whatever number you choose) tourney players (by average, not 1 time score) on your server and look at which AWs they have and which ones they don´t have, you may get a good idea what works. Obviously you can do the same with anything else you´re interested in...

I have had a hard time finding a way to respond to you, "knowing what i need", so i'll see if can pass just by it.

Yes, i'm happy that i can do 10 provinces, 6 rounds; That was my initial goal.

BUT; I also said, that if, when i have all buildings upgraded, i find out that i can do more - I want the KP's, relics and spells.

So of course i need to know how the system works, how would i else choose my best action in it. I will then find out where my sweet-spot is, where i still feel it's fun to play and get some "goods" in the process

 

[Wibbly Woo]

@Elivar i think the point being made is that if you are happy with 10x 6* provinces, yes, you will get a lot more relatively easily, but don’t worry about how the system works, find your own limit playing however you like.

My deliberately perverse, build all wonders, city in chapter 5 routinely surpasses your tournament target with comparative ease.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Elivar i think the point being made is that if you are happy with 10x 6* provinces, yes, you will get a lot more relatively easily, but don’t worry about how the system works, find your own limit playing however you like.

My deliberately perverse, build all wonders, city in chapter 5 routinely surpasses your tournament target with comparative ease.

I am happy with that, but if i can do more when all my military buildings are upgraded, then i want to. I want the winnings