AM's Management Tools

[QFol2]

Logs about when a player logged in the last time, and how many times they log in?
To me that sounds a lot like a privacy issue.

for the who are missing in tournament, spire, FA would be welcome additions.
But my internet activity pattern is none of your concern if you ask me, and as sais I am not sure the german law would even allow that.

Yes, completely agree with this.
I keep a vague eye on who doesn't play in the tournaments, and the FA only to make sure we don't have anyone who want the prizes missing out before we move onto the next stage.
I do like the idea of flags on the map for those who haven't logged in for a certain period of time (maybe 3+ weeks) though.

 

[Julian]

As much as it would be good to have the info from elvenstats here in the game, it perhaps shouldn't be the priority, if there's a limit to what the developers can do.

 

[Pauly7]

As CrazyWizard has alredy said, International Privacy Law exists for a very good reason. It is exactly the reason why you are unable to see who is online and once an Ancient Wonder is upgraded, the Spire of Eternity etc: ends why the information is then removed.

I understand privacy of someone's online status (though that isn't private at any given time within a fellowship), but are you saying that the reason why the Spire of Eternity scores disappear at 9pm on a Friday is due to privacy? This does not make sense to me. That's just a player's score. If it was private surely you wouldn't be able to see it in the first place, or see tournament leaderboards... or see tournament information after a tournament ends. I've brought up my Spire issue several times, here and on Beta, and that's never been cited as a reason.

My guess with Spire and Ancient Wonders is that there is no reason - the programming just didn't happen to allow for the information to remain, and the devs haven't felt the motivation to change it.

 

[CrazyWizard]

I never said anything on how many times someone logged in the game. I couldn't care less about your internet activity pattern and of any other player to be honest. If it's about privacy, the function /who shouldn't exist either.
How come in other games there are no privacy issues when someone wants to see (even normal players, not just those like AM and M) the last log in of your fellows? And I specified that is for your FS's members not for any other players.

I never know who played in the last 24 or 48h, if are playing regularly or just once in a while, in tournaments I always have to check a list to see who is missing,

This sound from your OP sounds to me you want to see more.
As for other games,

Games are made internationally, for example many are made in china, russia or the ukraine for example, these countries have different laws and different looks on privacy and human rights than we have in western europe, also what I have seen in the past years from german court cases is that in germany the laws are often stricter than some other countries.

Because of how the internet works you cannot compare games as for how lawfull they are.

A clear example is facebook, you must use your real name on facebook, but in germany there was a court case about a person who refused to use his own name for privacy reasons and went to german court. in germany you are allowed to use an alias as a result while in all other countries I know you are still required to use your real name.

I often seen news reports about german court cases (I live close to germany) regarding privacy in germany, and each time the accuser wins.

 

[damon]

+1

 

[Autumn Goldleaf]

I think the privacy issue it's pushed a bit overboard - I can see who donated KPs to a wonder but later I'm not allowed, I can see who participated in Spire but later I'm not allowed and yet I can see who participated in tournament and I can see also after the end of tournament the score of everyone (of my mates and also on the server). Isn't this a double standard?
P
I just asked for simple things, like if my fellows logged in in the last 24h (LAST LOG IN actually) and not how many times, like in Tournaments to see the missing fellows (like we see the available chests in wonders), same for Spire. This has nothing to do with Privacy because I can find eventually who is missing, it just requires extra work for mages.

Silmaril's post

I agree, this does seem a double standard. It would be nice to have Spire results displayed similarly to Tournament results. Also, it would be great to be able to view the players name, not just avatar in the Spire, as several players have the same avatar....
I can't see why one is any different privacy wise to the other.
Also, if Elvenstats has access to last login information, why can't Fellowships?
I currently keep Spreadsheets with Tournament, boosted goods, and Fellowship Adventure information, and don't rely on Elvenstats for that.
My opinion is that privacy issues should be more directed to people's PERSONAL information, and really has nothing to do with gameplay, and certainly, NEVER push players to spend real money.
Archmages and Mages are, or should be aware that real life always comes first, that people do have other commitments, and have different amounts of time to spend on the game.
We do chat about that sort of thing, without going into details, just so we know how much time we can expect people to play, and work around it.
As a result, the Fellowship is a fun, happy place to be, without putting pressure on individuals, and is doing really well...

 

[CrazyWizard]

I agree, this does seem a double standard. It would be nice to have Spire results displayed similarly to Tournament results. Also, it would be great to be able to view the players name, not just avatar in the Spire, as several players have the same avatar....
I can't see why one is any different privacy wise to the other.
Also, if Elvenstats has access to last login information, why can't Fellowships?
I currently keep Spreadsheets with Tournament, boosted goods, and Fellowship Adventure information, and don't rely on Elvenstats for that.
My opinion is that privacy issues should be more directed to people's PERSONAL information, and really has nothing to do with gameplay, and certainly, NEVER push players to spend real money.
Archmages and Mages are, or should be aware that real life always comes first, that people do have other commitments, and have different amounts of time to spend on the game.
We do chat about that sort of thing, without going into details, just so we know how much time we can expect people to play, and work around it.
As a result, the Fellowship is a fun, happy place to be, without putting pressure on individuals, and is doing really well...

elvenstats has no access to your login information, if for x time they do not see differences and no tourney data they just mark your account as inactive.
https://www.elvenstats.com/player/zz1/55511
I have logged into this account a lot past 2 weeks to check the winter event prizes.
Yet according to elvenstats the account is "dead" which ain't totally inaccurate as I am not playing it but I surely login there whenever I want.

Also the elvenstats data is "mined" illegally as it uses bots to crawl cities and rankings to get information which according to the game rules is not allowed.
As for the spire, at least in the browser you can see names, the app is always an issue.

The OP is asking for a full toolset not for individual improvements.
I could support a "better way" to get your spire information more easily.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Logs about when a player logged in the last time, and how many times they log in?
To me that sounds a lot like a privacy issue.
...
But my internet activity pattern is none of your concern if you ask me, and as sais I am not sure the german law would even allow that.

As CrazyWizard has alredy said, International Privacy Law exists for a very good reason. It is exactly the reason why you are unable to see who is online

All of these privacy concerns are a little silly.
Watch as I magically solve your issues:

Spoiler: ta da!

As for the OPs suggestions, yes please the AM tools are really lacking.
Especially the matchmaking. The developers should take a page from [every other game on the internet] and give both joiners and fellowships a better method for finding each other.

Let fellowships set

Here's a simple example:

 

[Alcaro]

As much as it would be good to have the info from elvenstats here in the game, it perhaps shouldn't be the priority, if there's a limit to what the developers can do.

Let's not cry for developers, please. I am also playing other games and one in particular has a "shop" with hundreds of thousand of items (offered by the players) also another "shop" with not so many items offered by the game (some premium, some hard to achieve but eventually one can get one very desirable item) and the game doesn't die or crash, it's functional as it must be. Events aren't tedious and have stunning grand prizes beside many maaaaany other little prizes, all being achievable by every player, new or old, with or without experience.

There, (to return to topic) you can see when a member of your "guild" was last time online. There the ranking in your guild is given by how much you contributed to the team objectives/ tasks and that also you can see it. I am not in the "AM or M league" there, so I am sure are many other options for them beside what ordinary fellows can see (like I said above).

Invoking privacy issues for the basic management tools are childish and silly (as SoggyShorts said).
Also @SoggyShorts provided some great suggestions, the one in the spoiler (which is from this forum), as well the examples he gave when trying to find new fellows or labeling your FS. Just a Like isn't enough for his post.

 

[WinterLivia7]

Also the elvenstats data is "mined" illegally as it uses bots to crawl cities and rankings to get information which according to the game rules is not allowed.

Elvenstats wouldn't exist if those data were provided by the game and none of those can be labeled as private.

All of these privacy concerns are a little silly.
Watch as I magically solve your issues:

Spoiler: ta da!

View attachment 5002

As for the OPs suggestions, yes please the AM tools are really lacking.
Especially the matchmaking. The developers should take a page from [every other game on the internet] and give both joiners and fellowships a better method for finding each other.

Let fellowships set

Here's a simple example:

View attachment 5003View attachment 5004

Yeah, I forgot about those privacy options from this forum, they could be easily applied for the rest of the game.
I totally love those 2 examples. How easy would become recruiting and applying! Thumbs up!

 

[Deleted User - 1543219]

When moving the cursor above the ranking of the player on PC - it doesn't matter if a FA member or not -, you see a few data. Why don't see more? A "being currently online" sign would be really useful for everyone. For bosses at the workplace, too . Still, I wouldn't mind it.

Adding a direct link here to the current Elvenstats of the respective player wouldn't be too much efforts for the developers. I don't mind if anyone can see it, but a restriction to the current AM could be added if necessary according to the GDPR. (It's silly to make references to the GDPR if you ask me, because we are playing under gamer names and avatars etc., so our privacy is safe... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

Of course I'd be happy with a more sophisticated toolset if being an AM, but cheap and primitive solutions can be developped quickly and with less efforts.

 

[Pauly7]

Adding a direct link here to the current Elvenstats of the respective player wouldn't be too much efforts for the developers. I don't mind if anyone can see it, but a restriction to the current AM could be added if necessary according to the GDPR.

Whilst that would be nice, Elvenstats is run entirely by a third party. I don't think Inno would ever link the game to that site. They don't otherwise publish it or make mention of it. In that sense it isn't a developer recognised tool.

 

[DeletedUser6472]

Here is my 2 cents: Personally, I would like to have a tab for Spire results, as we have for tournaments, but I guess it's for devs quite a lot of work and this is the only reason why it hasn't been done yet. It might happen in the future, the question is how far that future is lol... As to other management tools, I'm fine with monitoring just who did not participate in tourney or spire and whether min targets have been achieved. If someone is having some RL commitments, they normally let me know. As to FA, I would have a spreadsheet for those anyways, so I don't need anything extra in the game to assist me with it. Elvenstats is a great tool for finding potential FS members and I don't think that anything can be even remotely expected from devs to match that. I certainly don't need a tool to show me who logged in and when, because I see their participation in spire and tourney already and interactions in chat. It's just a game, I'd rather devs worked on improving it's gaming aspects; management we can take care of ourselves .

 

[cwgiii]

In that sense it isn't a developer recognised tool.

Which is further evidence that such information is used and needed by the player base. So much so much that individuals went about developing it on their own. Such tools could / need to be available in game, IMHO.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Elvenstats is a great tool for finding potential FS members and I don't think that anything can be even remotely expected from devs to match that.

• Elvenstats (where I was the original beta tester) was developed by a single player as a little side project for free with player-level access and zero developer support.
• Inno Games has 400 employees and brings in $200,000,000 per year.

So yeah, I also don't expect them to match Elvenstats, I expect much more. Elvenstats can tell you how many factories a player has, but inno has a totally different level of access where they know how much a player produced this week down to the last plank.
(this matters since set buildings can produce more than factories and whether a player uses 3h or 48h productions has a huge impact)

Things like the matchmaking I posted above or adding different tabs to the in-game chat (Like AIM already had in 1997), splitting notifications into separate tabs, a simple list of which FS members have inserted a badge so far, etc. are all features in indie games that have a single developer working in his basement.

 

[DeletedUser6472]

How long did it take Inno devs to introduce some little things that make playing on app finally bearable? Years! That is why I said that I don't expect anything remotely as good from them as elvenstats. I don't disagree with you that we should expect more from Inno, but what's the point of such expectations? Only disappointment...

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

How long did it take Inno devs to introduce some little things that make playing on app finally bearable?

Yes, it's insane actually. If you aren't involved in IT or computers in general how things are done here can massively skew your perception.
E.G. I sent an email to my BiL asking how long it would take to change something on my company website (the equivalent of splitting notifications into separate tabs) and he replied 30m later that it was done. He doesn't even work for me, he just whipped it up on his coffee break.

Out of curiosity, I asked about the last log-in feature and he offered to whip something up that basically ran a /who in chat every 5 minutes all day long. I don't personally have a need for it, but it really is that simple.
Inno makes the conscious choice daily not to make minor QOL improvements. Why is anyone's guess.

 

[DeletedUser6472]

Inno makes the conscious choice daily not to make minor QOL improvements.

Indeed and if you think about it, improving game on the app was something really necessary for the company to get into that lucrative industry and it took them so long. Creating management tools would offer nothing of the value to them, just a lot of work, so I have to be realistic here lol.

 

[Deleted User - 341074]

Creating management tools would offer nothing of the value to them

There are only so many gamers out there, and having much more primitive features than the competition can't be good.
QOL improvements = player retention

I hate to even mention this, but I pay a monthly sub for our Fellowship's website, I've donated to Elvenstats and Elvenarchitect.
That's all money that Inno could have.