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About push accounts...
- Thread starter Raghalthor
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Hekata
Artisan
Personally, since I don't play for ranking and I don't see Elvenar as a particularly competitive game (except FA to some extent), I don't really care whether players have push accounts or not. I play my game and they can play theirs.
However, if a rule does exist, it should be respected, but I really don't agree that it's up to us players to report those push accounts. It's not our job and frankly, given how unresponsive the devs are and their total lack of communication with us (not only about push accounts but about everything), I think they really shouldn't expect us to show much good will in that regard
However, if a rule does exist, it should be respected, but I really don't agree that it's up to us players to report those push accounts. It's not our job and frankly, given how unresponsive the devs are and their total lack of communication with us (not only about push accounts but about everything), I think they really shouldn't expect us to show much good will in that regard
Twigjam
Spellcaster
I utterly agree with this. It would be like we're all being penalised for something other people are doing. Not fair. I like the way we exchange KPs in my FS just as it is and I don't want it to be messed up thank you!
Laurelin
Sorcerer
If there's one thing that 'Freemium' games do very well, whether they openly say so or not, it's recording and analysing the behaviour of their players - after all, that's how they find out what sells and what doesn't, and therefore what to invest in and what to ignore put on the back burner (NB: this is just me being realistic, and is not in any way an endorsement of the way in which gaming companies nowadays so frequently, and so blatantly, prioritise profit above novel, high-quality, innovative, and/or long-term appealing - or even enjoyable - gameplay). I once had a conversation with Support staff which I know I'm not allowed to reproduce here, but I can see no harm in mentioning that during said conversation, Support told me that they record every single mouse-click made by each and every player (as well as, one assumes, the mobile phone equivalent) in pursuit of the aim of data-gathering and analysis... so I very much doubt that they're unaware of any (in fact, all) 'pushing' that takes place. Based on this, not only do I agree that it's not our job, as players, to police the game - but I'd also say that we're far less well-equipped to attempt such a feat than InnoGames themselves.
DeletedUser501
Enchanter
So they have much more responsability in this matter. No excuses after all.
PD: I hope someday you talk with me again Laurelin, you were my best friend here in Elvenar, now you don´t talk to me anymore
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Gargon667
Mentor
That is how a capitalist system works, everything is translated into money. Not the worst idea in the world, nor the best, but that is besides the point, it simply is how it is. So yes of course all of what you say is true. The point of elvenar is NOT to be an enjoyable game, the point is to earn money. And the biggest interest Inno (or any other company) has is how to figure out how to make more money. If Inno thought they could make more money selling pencils or writing students homework for them, they would drop elvenar today and do that instead. The reason they keep on working on elvenar is because that happens to be what they can make most money off of. So yes a LOT of money goes into figuring out what sells best, and you don´t need to show a mail by support to convince anyone that Inno records all data. they would be complete idiots if they did NOT do it. In fact I bet if they did not do it they wouldn´t be around anymore at all. It is rather safe to say that all games (and of course looking at the bigger picture all companies, just an example: supermarket membership cards, they even PAY you for your data!) that still are around utilize all the data they can possibly get their fingers on.
Now how does that relate to the problem discussed above: Push accounts can of course be detected by Inno, if Inno wanted to detect them, they certainly don´t need us to do it. The point is Inno is not interested in doing it themselves (kicking people out, does not earn them any money), while programming code to find them would cost them money. On the other hand asking us to report in push accounts, costs them nothing and it makes us feel better about it
. Kicking out paying towns due to rule breaking actually costs Inno money, so the motivation is rather low to do that. They will only do it if they think the consequences of not kicking out a certain town is worse than keeping it. So say the very most obvious and blatant push accounts will eventually get kicked out (after various smaller previous repercussions), because it might make other (paying!, nobody cares about non-paying people other than them creating a backdrop for the paying customers) customers unhappy enough to leave the game.So that is why Inno is dragging their feet and push (pun intended) the responsibility on us other players.
On a sidenote: In the early days of MMORPG games were designed by enthusiasts (not companies), with no monetary interest (other than not loosing too much money). The above logics would not have worked on them. But those games were of course far less "shiny" than what we play nowadays... The first one I played thought it was a huge step when an occasional (small) .jpeg (.bmp was too big for the bandwidth) was displayed as oposed to text only
One way or another we all payed for the upgrades since then 
Pauly7
Magus
I agree, but it is another example of not looking at the bigger picture. They could ban someone with push accounts and that may lose them a few pounds in the short term... but if they did do it, could it actually end up earning them more money in the long term because they would have a base of happy players that understand the rules and aren't put off by the fact that others may be getting themselves unfair advantages. Happy players leads to a more enjoyable game and therefore more long term profit.
Inno are capitalist of course, but priority number one still has to be making the most enjoyable game experience possible because capital gain can't happen without it.
Gargon667
Mentor
The game is just the byproduct. The point is to make money, so as long as Inno think that a more enjoyable game makes more money they will make it more enjoyable. If they think that push accounts make more money than many happy players we´re out of luck.
The truth is most likely somewhere in between. Inno wants both cakes. happy players AND the money spending push accounts. Trying to juggle the two is where this silly dance is coming from. If they decided on one of the two groups the action would be swift and direct and would have happened a long time ago. Trying not to kick out anyone that pays and keeping the majority of people happy anyway is the tricky part, so they have to pretend to do something, while not actually doing it
DeletedUser501
Enchanter
You´re assuming little push accounts are diamond cities? If so, your logic of why InnoGames is keeping them in the game would be valid, "cause money is the boss here"... But push accounts are not "diamond" cities, maybe the owner of those push accounts is a whale, or maybe an occasional diamond buyer but not his/her push accounts... So InnoGame does not has excuses to not do something with push "cheating" accounts.The game is just the byproduct. The point is to make money, so as long as Inno think that a more enjoyable game makes more money they will make it more enjoyable. If they think that push accounts make more money than many happy players we´re out of luck.
The truth is most likely somewhere in between. Inno wants both cakes. happy players AND the money spending push accounts. Trying to juggle the two is where this silly dance is coming from. If they decided on one of the two groups the action would be swift and direct and would have happened a long time ago. Trying not to kick out anyone that pays and keeping the majority of people happy anyway is the tricky part, so they have to pretend to do something, while not actually doing it
DeletedUser501
Enchanter
I would love to tag all those cheaters (with push accounts) here, so they could help us out here, but is forbidden by forum rules. They ban you for doing that but not the push accounts themselves or the owner of them.
Pauly7
Magus
I would think this one is probably the case, but it occurs to me as well that surely using push accounts is likely to reduce someone's diamond usage so again getting rid of them could make them more money long term.
Gargon667
Mentor
No I do not assume the little ones are anything but KP factories, but the big city on the receiving end, quite often (not always) will be a diamond spender. The small ones are of no importnace to anyone, deleting them will also be of no consequence, you can recreate them in 10 seconds not deleting them does no harm to anyone either.
The important city is the big one that benefits, and since push accounts are a lot of work, you clearly have a highly motivated town with high ambitions (why else would you bother with a pushing scheme), that doesn´t mind taking short-cuts to reach the goal. Sounds like the prototype of a diamond spender to me...
Not everyone will be of course, and now I begin to speculate wildly, without any semblance of knowing real numbers: I would guess among all the push accounts that do get deleted for pushing are a higher percentage of not-diamond spending towns than there are among the ones that do get reported for pushing
After all if you have push accounts without ever spending (big) diamonds, you are the perfect scapegoat for Inno, by deleting you, Inno make other players happy and lose no paying customers. I am really building a whole conspiracy theory here
DeletedUser501
Enchanter
Yes, that´s my point, Inno could easily (without affecting their so important money giver diamond city) erase those push account time to time, making harder for the pusher have push accounts. And no, only the fanatics could have too much time to create account after account after account, and wait until chapter 2 to unlock AWs in every new push account they would create after the ones they had were eliminated.
All said wouldn´t make that big difference at the end (or maybe yes), but in some cases they will make some pushers leaving their cheating practices.
I´m dying for tagging one very well known "player" that represents exactly that, but forum rules tho..Not everyone will be of course, and now I begin to speculate wildly, without any semblance of knowing real numbers: I would guess among all the push accounts that do get deleted for pushing are a higher percentage of not-diamond spending towns than there are among the ones that do get reported for pushing
I am really building a whole conspiracy theory here
Gargon667
Mentor
Now in the completely hypothetical case that I knew a push account, I would think "don´t we all", but of course I have no knowledge whatsoever of anybody ever breaking a rule!
If you don´t report a rulebreaker, you are actually breaking game rules. just saying... Maybe it´s called harboring a fugitive?
So Inno can run around blaming the problem on you instead of doing something about it.
DeletedUser501
Enchanter
I´m tired of reporting them and always they (Inno) replying me with the same robotic dialogue, they always reply me the same and the cheaters keep doing their amazing work.
Gargon667
Mentor
Their reply is nothing to worry about, that is kind of dictated by privacy laws and not really Innos fault. There is nothing they can say that makes you happy. But the lacking results are a different story.
If I had the choice to get a mail reading: "Gargon, you stinking, brainless Orc!!!" everytime a push account got deleted I would hope for a serious increase of spam in my inbox
I would make it into a song and play it on youtube every single time for good measure.DeletedUser501
Enchanter
I didn´t know an Orc was your alter Ego, you should use a profile pic of an Uruk-khai.
cwgiii
Shaman
Hmmmmm, I just had a thought. Yes, it is against the rules to post/tag those names here. However, as many other game play resources have gone the way of third party sites, there is nothing that could prevent someone from creating a website out there to list such players. It could even be created so that anyone could add their lists, crosrefference by accuser, by fellowship, etc..... Sort of like a global ElvenGems.cheeters page or PlatinumLeaf.cheeters@facebook page. Just a thought.
Note: the potential websites above do not exist (yet), and therefore cannot violate any current posting rules.
Gargon667
Mentor
Ha what an interesting idea
But you know it would be abused the whole time, 90% of the people accused there, would actually be innocent...
Pauly7
Magus
Yeah, imagine the chaos with those being falsely accused. You'd have to have a system where people report suspects to the site administrators, who then do a bit of private investigation. They would then only post the names of people who actually admitted it, or they could post other names, but flag those as suspected cheaters, where beyond all reasonable doubt pushing appears to be occurring... It would still all end up in tears though.
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