About push accounts...

[Raghalthor]

Original thread by DunkelSaturn.

I'm not really the person to complain much. I actually find it refreshing when someone has a positive thing to say about anything, not just the game.

But I have to speak up here. Why close the man's thread? He is trying to raise an issue! Why stop people from posting their opinions and experiences?

I'm a reader and a silent judgemental kind of guy...a smarty pats, if you will.

Copy/pasting parts of YOUR own rules, which you are not YOURSELF following, is a very unprofessional way to answer this issue.

I just want to know, as other might, what is being done about the issue raised by my fellow player, DunkelSaturn here.
So please don't lock this thread too.
I would like to hear and read more about this.

Thank you very much, your help is very much appreciated (not being sarcastic)
Hope in hearing from you soon.

 

[Twigjam]

I'd like to know more about what's being done about this issue too? It's not going to go away and neither are players wanting to know.

 

[Solanix]

@Raghalthor and @Twigjam we can deal with these accounts only via our Support. They will investigate and put actions in place if needed. But please do understand that we cannot discuss any outcome with other players due to data protection regulations.
I know that it gives you the feeling that nothing is done about a reported account when you are not informed about the outcome, but I can assure you that this is not the case.

 

[Far Reach]

I understand that you can't comment on specific cases, but can you talk about Inno's response to pushing more generally ?

The situation most often complained about seems to be the player whose AWs receive a large proportion of their kp from other cities, and this continues over a sustained period of time. Usually the donor cities are small and static - seeming to have no purpose other than aiding the player in question. Sometimes these supplying cities are all in the same fellowship, and have similar names and layouts. In such cases it is very easy for the player-base to identify what is very strong circumstantial evidence of a player pushing (although I suppose in theory that another and malicious player could have created the dummy cities to frame them).

So a couple of questions.

In the above hypothetical situation - would Inno expect to spot the suspicious behaviour automatically (or do you need it to be reported) ?

Secondly once Inno is aware of such suspicious behaviour - does it always investigate and act (if justified), or does it require a certain number of complaints before this happens ?

There are suggestions which we could make to improve the situation (reduce cheating) depending upon the answers. Automatic detection is certainly possible, and an approach such as capping the proportion of the kps needed to level a Wonder which can come from donations (say to 50%) would greatly reduce the impact of pushing.

 

[Alcaro]

IMHO if @InnoGames wanted to do something against push accounts, it would have been done already. I think the problem resides on the fact that the big cities who use push accts are Premium players, therefore they can't be disturbed
Yes, I could report dozens of Main cities which are using push account but IT'S NOT MY JOB. InnoGames has the means to find them easily or better, not to let them exist in the first place.

 

[FieryArien]

an approach such as capping the proportion of the kps needed to level a Wonder which can come from donations (say to 50%) would greatly reduce the impact of pushing.

It would, bit it would also give more options to wonder hunters. Also for regular player it would be confusing when some chests would be left unassigned because of already depleted 50% donation limit. And that could happen easily with KP swap threads.

 

[Alcaro]

[...] and an approach such as capping the proportion of the kps needed to level a Wonder which can come from donations (say to 50%) would greatly reduce the impact of pushing.

NO and NO again. I don't want a solution that creates more problems than it solves. I do not like people using push accounts but at the end of the day they don't have an impact on my city or my playing style.
Actually, I pity them, they must have a problem that they need to do that.

 

[Far Reach]

It would, bit it would also give more options to wonder hunters. Also for regular player it would be confusing when some chests would be left unassigned because of already depleted 50% donation limit. And that could happen easily with KP swap threads.

One simple way to implement this would be to allow donations only once 50% of the required kp were filled. (After that all donations would be allowed)

I agree that this could mess up some kp sharing mechanisms, but others (which are as good or better) would be completely unaffected. The bottom line is that the chest rewards account for about 15%-20% of the total kp requirement. There is no reason for any kp exchange scheme to require an aggregate donation of significantly more than that.

I'd be happy to hear other suggestions though (if Inno are open to considering them).

 

[Raghalthor]

I'm nor here, nor there.
Personally, I don't mind push accounts. If you have the time and energy to do that, go right ahead.
Plus, it's in Inno's interest to have more players, more accounts, to gain from.

An older players point of view, would be against it, as they worked hard to get to where they are.
A newer players point of view, would be a great opportunity to gain speed and catch up.

So what is THE RULE?
Is it what you posted and still have up in your list of rules of conduct?
If so, where are the penalties for not obeying them?
(I mean, at least block the small push accounts and a slap on the wrist to the main one...nothing major. They still put up the work after all)

But if this is not to be done(even though this is the correct one to fallow, in my opinion), please let us know.
There are people who would love to legally do just that.
Create a second, third...whatever city to help themselves out.
Which is not a bad option either.

But I am interested which one is going to be agreed upon, in the end.
Stand by YOUR own rules, or give the choice to people.
Atm it's a hazy situation we are in!

That's my 2 cents on the matter.
Have fun out there and remember to tip your waiter/waitress

 

[Raghalthor]

@Solanix
I understand all what you are saying. And agree 100%.

Can I propose a "no-names" kind of document? Just an example...you can shape the idea into something else, similar and easier for you to do.

Ie: This month Admin 'Forum Police', has tracked down 24 push accounts on server Collyflower.
Forum Police also identified 3 main accounts, which were sent a warning message about their illegal activities.
Out of which, one account was found guilty of the same crime, a second time.
Said account was blocked for 48h.


If you give us a list, everyone loves a list or an excel sheet...everyone would be happy.
If you DO keep track of stuff, I bet there is already a list like that somewhere.
We just need to see the crunched numbers, that's all.

Like in a hurricane. We know there were damages, ITS A HURRICANE.
We just need to know the estimated total damages, you know, to sleep better at night.

 

[Pauly7]

One simple way to implement this would be to allow donations only once 50% of the required kp were filled. (After that all donations would be allowed)

No definitely not. It is not a good strategy to donate to your own wonders and I don't want all the KP swap threads and Wonder Societies out there to be immediately un-useable just for an unnecessary fix of a bigger problem.

 

[Pauly7]

I agree with most of the points here. Particularly, to begin with, I am never happy when threads get locked just because the subject of push accounts comes up. We all know that specific cases cannot be discussed openly, but time and again mods shut down threads that have any mention of this topic and it seems to me that it's just because they don't want to answer the question that they don't have a good answer for.

The answer is, as hinted above - Inno doesn't really care about push accounts. There is a rule saying don't do it. There has to be one of course. They have no interest in enforcing this rule though. The people that care enough about playing the game enough to cheat are doubtless often the same people that care enough about the game to spend money on it. Inno is never going to do anything about those people.

So people can report as many of these people as they like and nothing will ever happen... they're just never going to admit that nothing is going to happen.... and the threads all get locked to avoid getting near that explanation.

The very real question, raised originally, is whether this should be listed as a rule at all, given the developers' attitude to it. Personally I would rather see it addressed and the rule-breakers dealt with, but I am way beyond believing this will ever happen.

 

[Raghalthor]

@Pauly7 You probably know if this was discussed before.
I figure tones of times, but is the idea of a summary of admin activity ever come as a subject from your experience?
It's not too much to ask, it's reasonable, but again, it's my question, it seams like that from my point of view

Would love an input on this one from everyone aswell.
Is it too much to ask for a proof, that 'actions are taken'.
"I can asure you that...", "We are definitely looking into the matter..." and all this fancy way of not addressing the actual subject, is lawyer talk.
Doesn't really makes me happy.

And if this was sorted before, I apologise, I'll take the link to the previous post and head out.

 

[Silmaril]

@Far Reach To answer your questions:
It is part of our Game Rules that we are all asked as players to report any suspicious behaviour in the game directly to Support. Be that Push accounts, game sharing, harassment etc: Why when players here have in the past named and shamed, the post cannot remain up as this is a direct breach of not only the Forum Rules but also GDPR which pretty much locks data down, including Personal Information (why we have no personal information whatsoever shared here).
Support investigate every report we receive a ticket for and actions are or are not taken depending on if a player has indeed violated either or Game Rules, Terms and Conditions or Forum Rules - as we handle all within the ticketing system.
Depending on the nature of the report an investigation can take from a few hours to several weeks and months as we conclude fully.
We do indeed ban players,we do indeed 'slap wrists' and remove items form player accounts: We do actually prefer to work with players to help them to understand why we have the rules, to make Elvenar a fair game without the need to want to cheat.

 

[Far Reach]

Thank you for the answer @Silmaril .

I gain the impression from this, that no action will be taken against any particular pushing player unless a ticket is raised to report suspicious behaviour by them. A single ticket is sufficient to trigger an investigation though.

It might be possible to partially answer @Raghalthor 's question by indicating roughly how many tickets Support gets for "Breach of Rules" in an average month or year, and what sort of distribution of outcomes result from those tickets.

 

[Raghalthor]

Thank you @Silmaril
This is great to hear, and thanks for taking the time to, probably yet again, address this point.

I do enjoy playing this game, very much, and of course when you are interested in something, you want to know all aspects of it.

Regarding the last idea, about a summary of "punished" accounts.
Is that possible? No is a reasonable answer
Again I am just curios to know about it.
I know it would make me feel better, and not just me, but I bet everyone would feel more involved with the work that you put up for us.
And sharing something like that might be beneficial for both sides.

Thanks.

 

[Raghalthor]

@Far Reach
You have an answer to a question. You are free to interpret and form your own opinion.
But please try to keep it to yourself.

As Silmaril said, if you get to name names, it conflicts with forum rules, and we get locked again. Just a few would have gained some knowledge then.

I'd love to continue to ask questions and get some more answers, wouldn't you?

 

[Far Reach]

@Far Reach
You have an answer to a question. You are free to interpret and form your own opinion.
But please try to keep it to yourself.

As Silmaril said, if you get to name names, it conflicts with forum rules, and we get locked again. Just a few would have gained some knowledge then.

I'd love to continue to ask questions and get some more answers, wouldn't you?

I think that you might have misinterpreted my post. (I have never sought to name names on the forum and nor was I advocating it. @Silmaril obviously wanted to stress that point, but it wasn't relevant to any questions I asked.) She only indirectly responded to the first question I raised, so I stated my understanding of her answer in case I'd got that wrong.

I completely agree with the thrust of your post that we all need to be constructive.

 

[Silmaril]

Please just keep the tickets coming in to Support and far far away from the Forum
We react to every single report we receive.
Unfortunately we cannot discuss tickets as such here other than to say we of course get reports in frequently.
Does that help guys?

 

[Raghalthor]

It's an answer we can understand, yes, thank you