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Intruders in AW

Scythian75

Seeker
Hello, in my opinion, the chaos has been escalated in case of AW donation by intruders and tbh so annoying to see, when intruder takes chest reward! Some of them do it as a new form of "business" and as it seems, it is so beneficial cos more and more Players do it but what is good for them, so disappointing for the FS members! My suggestion would be that to solve this situation, any external Player could donate an AW just with the AW owner's confirmation/permission. I am not sure it would be the best solution to block all foreign donations cos somebody likes to donate his neighbouring for example so should give a chance for these Players to help but a jump up message/bubble text to the owner's screen, he got a donation request what he can accept or deny would be very useful to deny undesired donation. I am talking about external donation only.
Thank you!
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
I don’t think that undesired donations are the core problem. They only become a problem when your fellows don’t help you out with enough donations to move intruders out of rewards. What kind of KP exchange system do you have? Do you offer your chests to your fellows to move intruders out of rewards?

Also, even with 1KP donation you’re still better off by 1KP rather than not getting anything at all. Ok, someone else gets a bigger reward than you but that can be easily avoided. Also, these players put quite a bit of effort into finding chests and most of the time they lose out so they don't get the chests for free.

It’s like you’ve thrown something away, someone finds it, takes it, gets a reward for it and leaves a little present for you. If you don’t want that to happen, don’t throw your chests away, offer them to your fellows.
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
I used to be a "hunter", I searched for unattended wonders, but all in the limit of common sense - players without FS or with a FS who didn't care about completing fellows' wonders.
Since the rune conversion, we (as a FS) we stopped completely since is too time consuming to check the game files for each potential "target", to see what is their receiving limit, to avoid them to be blocked.
What I see instead, are some players who are dumping tons of KPs and bringing us too often and too near to hit the limit.
There are some who targeted our FS. Me, for example, at this moment I have over 2000 KPs placed in most of my wonders, from the usual suspects.
I honestly dunno why they are doing it because they rarely get a chest (we use WS system) unless they donate hundreds of KPs and there's no place to over pass them.
When Inno came with this new feature, I was happy because I had so many runes accumulated over the years, also, I saw the opportunity to block the push accounts but I didn't see this coming - me being blocked from receiving KPs from my fellows. TBH, I don't see a solution at this problem and I am against limiting ppl donating wherever they want - inside or outside their own FS.
As you can see, I still am puzzled by this problem and can't figure out anything having the slightest resemblance with a solution.
 
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Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
I honestly dunno why they are doing it because they rarely get a chest (we use WS system) unless they donate hundreds of KPs and there's no place to over pass them.

Maybe they're trying to remove the lock as they received too many KPs themselves.

When Inno came with this new feature, I was happy because I had so many runes accumulated over the years, also, I saw the opportunity to block the push accounts but I didn't see this coming - me being blocked from receiving KPs from my fellows. TBH, I don't see a solution at this problem and I am against limiting ppl donating wherever they want - inside or outside their own FS.

Wouldn't donating KPs to someone else unblock you and remove your problem?
 

Silly Bubbles

Necromancer
I can't do what they do and beside that, we are talking about thousands of KPs which most players do not have them, me included.

Some player might be very grateful for your help. Also you did get a lot of help yourself, thousands of KPs is a BIG gift. Personally, I'd be happy to get that many KPs. Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your problem.
 

Jake65

Sage
For me the biggest issue, if I were to become KP blocked, would be that fellows wouldn't be able to take any remaining chests prior to upgrading. Which is a waste of good chests.

It was mentioned before in another thread (I think) that a "status bar" in the AW window would show potential donors whether you are in a position to receive KP. This would help prevent any unintentional blocking.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
For me the biggest issue, if I were to become KP blocked, would be that fellows wouldn't be able to take any remaining chests prior to upgrading. Which is a waste of good chests.

It was mentioned before in another thread (I think) that a "status bar" in the AW window would show potential donors whether you are in a position to receive KP. This would help prevent any unintentional blocking.
If by now you are still blocked or in dager of being blocked, you are either a hunter or a pusher.

There has been plenty of time passed since the introduction to make that statement.
Each day you get a royal amount of extra KP space and those are cumulative. anyone not of the above by now should have thousands and soon 10's of thousands of KP space in reserve before being blocked
 

Jake65

Sage
If by now you are still blocked or in dager of being blocked, you are either a hunter or a pusher.

There has been plenty of time passed since the introduction to make that statement.
Each day you get a royal amount of extra KP space and those are cumulative. anyone not of the above by now should have thousands and soon 10's of thousands of KP space in reserve before being blocked
Good point about the time that has passed. Most blocked players should be clear by now.
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
Some player might be very grateful for your help. Also you did get a lot of help yourself, thousands of KPs is a BIG gift. Personally, I'd be happy to get that many KPs. Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your problem.
I am grateful to certain level, then it becomes a burden. Some players might be happy but as well they might be annoyed.
If by now you are still blocked or in dager of being blocked, you are either a hunter or a pusher.

There has been plenty of time passed since the introduction to make that statement.
Each day you get a royal amount of extra KP space and those are cumulative. anyone not of the above by now should have thousands and soon 10's of thousands of KP space in reserve before being blocked
Do not throw allegations just because you can. I'm not a hunter (last hunt was in the first days of rune conversion) nor a pusher.
As far as I know, that "royal amount" is 80 KPs/ day. I don't see it as a huge help once you are blocked with an excess of thousands of KPs.
 

kimkimkim

Summoner
If by now you are still blocked or in dager of being blocked, you are either a hunter or a pusher.
Sorry @CrazyWizard but I have to disagree with this statement.....I am not a hunter nor a pusher and when the rune exchange first started, I became blocked from receiving anymore help.......maybe someone is just really liked that they would receive a lot of help eh :p
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
I am grateful to certain level, then it becomes a burden. Some players might be happy but as well they might be annoyed.

Do not throw allegations just because you can. I'm not a hunter (last hunt was in the first days of rune conversion) nor a pusher.
As far as I know, that "royal amount" is 80 KPs/ day. I don't see it as a huge help once you are blocked with an excess of thousands of KPs.
exactly. 80kp per day is a lot, and it has been introduced over 4 months ago. 4*30*80= 9600kp + start was around 3000 + extra days say 14.000 points?

If after 4 months you are still blocked you either hunted or pushed. we can argue about the initial blockades but 14.000kp is a deliberate act nog accidental. adn the more time passes the more obvious it will become.

So yeah it's a fair allegation that if you have an "unfair" advantage of 14.000 points you are either a hunter or a pusher.
Else give me another example how you could possibly be blocked?

Unless you are going to claim that people "accedentilly still get 80+ kp per day more than you give away" from other players "unwanted".

Sorry @CrazyWizard but I have to disagree with this statement.....I am not a hunter nor a pusher and when the rune exchange first started, I became blocked from receiving anymore help.......maybe someone is just really liked that they would receive a lot of help eh :p
I wrote today not after the introduction. yes the inital flurry could have got you blocked as people pushed without bad intentions in the flurry of so many KP's but now 4 months later.... many runes are already used, the novelty is gone and the bandwith of being blocked or not is much much larger.

ps. I am blocked, I am a hunter and hunters (not pushers) are the only ones able to get get themselves deep into the red.
for me it will take a long long long time to get into the green again, but thats because I am a hunter.
 

Jake65

Sage
exactly. 80kp per day is a lot, and it has been introduced over 4 months ago. 4*30*80= 9600kp + start was around 3000 + extra days say 14.000 points?

If after 4 months you are still blocked you either hunted or pushed. we can argue about the initial blockades but 14.000kp is a deliberate act nog accidental. adn the more time passes the more obvious it will become.

So yeah it's a fair allegation that if you have an "unfair" advantage of 14.000 points you are either a hunter or a pusher.
Else give me another example how you could possibly be blocked?

Unless you are going to claim that people "accedentilly still get 80+ kp per day more than you give away" from other players "unwanted".


I wrote today not after the introduction. yes the inital flurry could have got you blocked as people pushed without bad intentions in the flurry of so many KP's but now 4 months later.... many runes are already used, the novelty is gone and the bandwith of being blocked or not is much much larger.

ps. I am blocked, I am a hunter and hunters (not pushers) are the only ones able to get get themselves deep into the red.
for me it will take a long long long time to get into the green again, but thats because I am a hunter.
Do shards count as 15kp going out from you. ie adds to your 'green'?
I can understand getting in the red for 1kp bringing you a good chest but for 15kp to consistently yield a better return..... you need to teach me please :)
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
exactly. 80kp per day is a lot, and it has been introduced over 4 months ago. 4*30*80= 9600kp + start was around 3000 + extra days say 14.000 points?

If after 4 months you are still blocked you either hunted or pushed. we can argue about the initial blockades but 14.000kp is a deliberate act nog accidental. adn the more time passes the more obvious it will become.

So yeah it's a fair allegation that if you have an "unfair" advantage of 14.000 points you are either a hunter or a pusher.
Else give me another example how you could possibly be blocked?

Unless you are going to claim that people "accedentilly still get 80+ kp per day more than you give away" from other players "unwanted".
As usual, you quote only the parts of a comment which can sustain your opinions. Sorry, but even though you are an old player, you became boring.
Show me where I said that "now I am blocked"!!! Instead I said twice that I do not hunt and don't have push accounts. I also just pointed an issue, did not say that donations should be restricted. Did it matter to you? Of course not. All what matter to you is your precious opinion. I said instead that I have donations of almost 2000 KPs in a week. I checked the file games and most of them were blocked so they used my wonders to save themselves. I would say that they might be hunters but I do not make assumptions (just because I'm allowed).

I will repeat myself now - from the helpful and kind player you used to be, you became arrogant and vain, you think you own the absolute truth about this game. Mwelll, nope, you don't.
 

schadenfreude

Enchanter
Do shards count as 15kp going out from you. ie adds to your 'green'?
I can understand getting in the red for 1kp bringing you a good chest but for 15kp to consistently yield a better return..... you need to teach me please :)
Yes. Each rune gets credited as 15KP if you donate out.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
As usual, you quote only the parts of a comment which can sustain your opinions. Sorry, but even though you are an old player, you became boring.
Show me where I said that "now I am blocked"!!! Instead I said twice that I do not hunt and don't have push accounts. I also just pointed an issue, did not say that donations should be restricted. Did it matter to you? Of course not. All what matter to you is your precious opinion. I said instead that I have donations of almost 2000 KPs in a week. I checked the file games and most of them were blocked so they used my wonders to save themselves. I would say that they might be hunters but I do not make assumptions (just because I'm allowed).

I will repeat myself now - from the helpful and kind player you used to be, you became arrogant and vain, you think you own the absolute truth about this game. Mwelll, nope, you don't.
Which part? the part about being blocked for thousands of KP?
I actually pointed out that that is ONLY possible IF you hunt
ps. I am blocked, I am a hunter and hunters (not pushers) are the only ones able to get get themselves deep into the red.
for me it will take a long long long time to get into the green again, but thats because I am a hunter.
I quoted your entire post, did not leave anything out. I also adressed your thousands of KP concern.

once you are "blocked" you can no longer recieve knowledge points. therefore cannot go into the red. (you can for a tiny bit and a tiny bit more in more extreme examples)

The only way you can go in the red is if you recieve donation chests

  • every donation you give adds points to your recieverlimit
  • Every chest your wonders give away adds points to your reciever limit
  • Daily you get added 80 points to your reciever limit (current time)

  • Every donation you get removes points from your reciever limit
  • Every wonderchest you recieve removes points from your recieverlimit

  • Once you do not have a positive amount of recieverlimit you can not longer gain donations in your wonder (blocked)
When we look at these points the only way to get negative is by recieving wonderchests when you are already at 0 points.
Lets presume you have swapped "fairly" and when reaching 0 another 10 wonders are filled and you gain 80kp per wonder. for 800KP.

Then 10 days later you are unblocked.
To get into such large amounts that many months later you are still blocked you need to hunt, hunt hunt and hunt.
There is no way you can accidentely recieve 10's of thousands of kp more from wonderchest than you give away wihtout hunting.

Out of this there are only 2 conclusions.
to be blocked:
  • You need to recieve 80KP or more than you recieve every day, this gives you an "unfair" advantage and is by the rules the definition of pushing
  • You put less kp in wonders than you recieve from then (hunting), you need to sustain an average of 80KP per day tot sustain being blocked or push you massivive into the negative since it's introduction / or when you started playing which was first.
This has nothing to do with arrogance but with simply stating facts.
The longer this feature exists, the more "impossible" it becomes to be "accidently" locked

Even with my massive stack of runes, I cannot "lock" a player anymore without there consent. they can easily block my attempt. and in a fe months from now even when I want to I am unable to. unless that person keeps leveling that wonder and destroying it again to level it over and over again.
When this feature was introduced, this did happen, both to get rid of the negative bonus (not by me), and to "help" another player by giving that players your excess runes (which by the rules is still pushing btw)
Now many months later those excuses are simply no longer there.

So my statement if you are blocked today after your recieverlimit has been raised for months you are either a hunter or a pusher is a fair statement based on the facts.
So it's not an allegation, it's the truth.
 

Herodite

Forum mod extraordinaire
Elvenar Team
Hi Guys!! I know this is an emotive subject but lets keep it kind! :D

Kind Regards

Herodite.
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
wow @CrazyWizard - you are incorrigible. I said already, I will say it again - I AM NOT BLOCKED ANYMORE! Can you read that???
My issue was related to those donating gazillion KPs to others. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM!!! We can't control how many KPs we get from outsiders. I do not like to waste my KPs on outsiders, I want to use them in my WS system and make it work as fast as possible.

*ppl should excuse my capital letters, I am not shouting just hoping that CW can see what I say. :D

There is no way you can accidentely recieve 10's of thousands
Are not 10's of thousands, are about 1-2k almost every week only from donations from strangers. If you don't believe me, just go to my city and check my wonders.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
wow @CrazyWizard - you are incorrigible. I said already, I will say it again - I AM NOT BLOCKED ANYMORE! Can you read that???
My issue was related to those donating gazillion KPs to others. I AM NOT ONE OF THEM!!! We can't control how many KPs we get from outsiders. I do not like to waste my KPs on outsiders, I want to use them in my WS system and make it work as fast as possible.

*ppl should excuse my capital letters, I am not shouting just hoping that CW can see what I say. :D


Are not 10's of thousands, are about 1-2k almost every week only from donations from strangers. If you don't believe me, just go to my city and check my wonders.
I didn't say it about you, but you said I could not make that statement.

I am not saying you are blocked because,.....

§7 Pushing​

  • Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.

Sounds unbelievable, and abolutely unsustainable on a grand scale so of anyone recieves 1-2k a week from "strangers" you are an (un)lucky few. but if that bothers that person you can always report them for pushing, or at least ask them to stop.

Because if a person knowingly recieve unbalanced massive amounts of kp each week so that you get blocked you are involved in pushing and still a pusher. the rules state that it not being your account is not a valid reason. any incidental large amount of KP recieved doesnt get you blocked. only structural recieving to much knowledge points does.
I don't even have a clue why you are even try to argue somthing else. and try to wiggle in all kinds of bends to argue something else.

It's not that the system is a unknown black box. we know exactly the rules of the system. and we know the rules of the game.

ps. without the logdata from innogames "looking" at your wonders doesn't say anything. it doesnt tell me who they are, to whom they are connected. whats there relation is ect is there a share pool ect.. I can have suspecions. at best I could determine there is a case of pushing after analyzing it over a longer period of time.
Without accusing you of anything, there are people in the past that use different IP adresses and coockie id's to create a situation to make create there narrative and a non existing situation.
We can just look at the imperical data, how many accounts are needed to sustain a 560KP+ push a week and how does that relate to each other if it's >1 it's by default not a regular situation nor an accident the bigger the difference the more unlikely it's to happen.
 

Alcaro

Necromancer
lol, I give up. I am not a "pusher" since those KPs are unsolicited. I am not the only one in my FS. There are more of my guildies who get the same gifts from the same players.
There are some who targeted our FS.
I messaged them and asked them kindly to stop donating because they start to cause trouble. I didn't get any response and the donating is still going on. With the help of WS system we managed to keep a decent level for KP limit but many of us dropped from around 10k to 3-4k only.
Anyway, sooner or later the runes will be gone and I hope all will go back to normal :)
 
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