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Version 1.15

Tiriake

Soothsayer
Marindor said:
@Tiriake : Please read my post directly above yours. It seems you were typing yours while I was placing mine :) Please take the time to read it and you'll understand that it's not about blaming/punishing/whatever. If you still think it is after reading my explanation, there's just nothing more I can say about it, sorry :)
Click to expand...

@Marindor I did read your post after I wrote mine. So you claim that it was not INNO's intention to punish us. Am I getting that right? Perhaps you are telling the truth. However I think you are missing an important point here. Why people are so angry.

Inno decided to implement a really big change. Maybe after months this update turns out to be ok and people won't be angry anymore. And we see this mysterious awesome balance you keep talking about. But right now this change is not giving out any positive effect. We are stuck. We are told over and over that it's because we are not were we are supposed to be. However nobody ever told us that scouting was wrong and that's how we got to that point.
I can't speak for other people. But I personally feel punished for being active player. I feel that I am stuck. And I feel that team INNO focuses right now only on saying what a great update they cooked up, while completly forgetting players. Players who got hit the worst by this update. I don't see any plan suggested to us how to go on with this wall ahead of us. How to adjust to the change. And I feel that the reaction from lets say team Inno is very dismissive and we are not being taken seriously. Basically big part of the problem is bad PR. If Inno wants this game to have actual players who would play it. Something will have to change. Give us hope. Because right now 2 and 3 part of the battle update is not doing it. Give us something that would ease our progress until we reach that place when we finally are in a place where we are supposed to be. Right now you are not doing it. It's really not helping at all that in the promo video for the battle we were promised that this change will make fighting "fun and easy". Seriously what is right now fun about this update? Like seriously. I have to wait months maybe even more until I get to a point where I'm supposed to be.

Since you claim that there is a plan involved. Logic to this update. I have few questions and I would like to get direct answers. Right now team Inno is doing nothing about the fact this update has closed one part of the game for months (fighting in provinces) for me. So I have to figure out what to do and how to not make this situation worse for myself. So as I said I have few questions. In order to catch up to where I am supposed to be so I would find fights in province that are possible to win.
Right now I have scouted 217 and conquered 215 province and I'm at the very beginning of the fairy chapter.

1)When I am allowed to scout again? (Which chapter)
2) In which chapter I can find provinces where it's possible to win a battle?
3)How many provinces I am allowed to conquer/scout per chapter?

I would seriously like to get an answer from team Inno to those questions, because if there indeed is a plan for this mess somewhere then it should be an easy answer.
 

DeletedUser9

Guest
Thanks again for the feedback guys!

On these questions I can give you a quick insight:

Tiriake said:
Right now I have scouted 217 and conquered 215 province and I'm at the very beginning of the fairy chapter.

1)When I am allowed to scout again? (Which chapter)
2) In which chapter I can find provinces where it's possible to win a battle?
3)How many provinces I am allowed to conquer/scout per chapter?
Click to expand...

Basically the chests that are required to unlock new chapters, are a good guideline for that. Regular/Casual players are expected to be around the minimum number of required provinces, active players are expected to be 10-30 provinces ahead of them.

To unlock Woodelves, you'll need 190 provinces to open the chest at the start of that chapter. That means that you'd be in line with what we call an active player at that point, so from Woodelves on you should be able to win fights again (provided that you also research your Squad Size upgrades of course) and that will make it possible to scout new provinces as well.

For players who are currently at 300+ prvinces and now get the feeling that they'd have to wait for another 5 chapters: Please don't be afraid of that. As explained before, the Squad Size upgrades now have way more influence in your armies, because they now work exponentially (meaning the increase in squad size becomes bigger and bigger with every unlocked tech) so of course you'll find yourself stuck on the World Map for now but it won't take the ages it might seem to take at this moment.
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
Marindor said:
To unlock Woodelves, you'll need 190 provinces to open the chest at the start of that chapter. That means that you'd be in line with what we call an active player at that point, so from Woodelves on you should be able to win fights again (provided that you also research your Squad Size upgrades of course) and that will make it possible to scout new provinces as well.
Click to expand...

Just be prepared for going through the Orcs with no fighting :cool:
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
Anyone who is foolish enough to judge the new system in its entirety while it is still incomplete deserves to feel 'punished'.
Anyone who has to be told what is evident by observation deserves the additional pain that is due from not learning from experience.
Anybody who believes I am receiving any largesse from InnoGames clearly doesn't know me or Inno, and "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

When I buy a game (yes, it has been known to happen), and I don't like it, I delete it and blame myself for laying out the cash.
When I play a free game, if I don't like it, I stop playing and try another.
It amazes me that people will jump up and down and scream a lot at the developers of a game that need not cost any money because they are taking the game in a direction they want to take it. It is their game, and if they take it somewhere I do not want to go, I will stop playing. No blame and no animosity. Certainly no "do it my way or I'll quit!"

Some of the people who are moaning in this thread about how bad the game is have been doing that since June last year, and, despite all their promises, still have not quit. Why would you do that to yourself?

I play Elvenar because I enjoy it, and I enjoy the challenges it poses. With all the changes over the last year and a half, I still enjoy it, and I still enjoy the challenges it poses, even though those challenges have changed. I may not have a high rank (1100 when last I looked), but I have already beaten many of those above me, because I am still here, while they have quit. At this stage, there are only two possibilities that will take me away from Elvenar: Inno abandoning the game (which would be a shame, because it is still a unique concept) or my heart giving out (and don't get your hopes up about that).
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
No, I have beaten them by staying. While they were concerned about rank, I was developing a city. A city which still stands, not overcrowded, not overproducing, but there, waiting for the next stage of development.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
@Marindor, thank you for the long message, although it seems to be basically the same I have read both in English here and in Finnish translation in our local forum.

Marindor said:
There were several reasons why the redesign/rebalance of the battle system was necessary. I'll try to list them here for you, hopefully that will help:

Unresolvable bugs
The old system was technically limited compared to what we now have and due to this, there were bugs in it for moths that couldn't be resolved without breaking the code. This means that if we kept to the old system, these bugs could never be resolved.

New Battle Units
As I said, the old system didn't allow us to implement the new battle units. That's exactly the reason why the Fairy Units were on "coming soon" for several months. The only solution here in the old system, would be to keep upgrading existing units, which isn't fun at all.
Click to expand...

To me it seems Inno's communication was not successful and clear enough, because there are so many unhappy players even among the most loyal ones. May I propose that PR should also be redesigned? I had no idea that there were serious design and coding problems behind the scenes. To me Elvenar has been running smoothly without big bugs compared to other company's Flash Player games I have played.

I worked 20 years as a programmer and I know very well how end users (like players in Elvenar) don't have any idea whether a design is good or headache for the programmers. End users just don't care as long as they don't have any problems with the software. In my career, I was involved in several projects where software had to be redesigned and it is a really big demanding challenge. But I have also worked at customer service and learnt how important it is keeping your loyal customers because they bring the most of the cash.
 

DeletedUser219

Guest
Tikococo said:
I am sure your existence in the game was the last thing on their minds, they would probably think anyone that stayed an idiot to continue putting up with the rubbish INNO keeps chucking at us (and yes, I mean US, coz I've also stayed):p
Click to expand...
Nobody, aside from me, really cares about my existence in this game. Anybody who thinks I'm an idiot has no idea who I am and again, I don't really care what Internet people think because they have no way of knowing me.
Software developers have been putting out rubbish for over 2 decades since Microsoft discoved it did not really have to put out a complete operating system for it to be bought. Some of this rubbish becomes successful because a few individuals can find the pony amongst the horse poo. Some individuals don't look for the pony because all they can see is the poo.
 

DeletedUser2361

Guest
Having worked my way through several threads I have an observation. A lot of what I read is about having advanced too quickly and scouting too many provinces and that is why we cannot win battles as we are facing armies much greater than ours. Many people have hundreds of provinces scouted and are larger players.
As a smaller player my concern is this - I have only scouted 58 provinces and at my widest point have reached the 7th ring, Some only the 5th or 6th ring. Battle is still suicide for me now as I have only just gotten my sorceresses. I thought they would help - but they die almost immediately too. I am miles from any other type of troop and in order to reach squad upgrades i\ have to invest KP in multiple unboosted manufactory research.
I don't play the game for the battles but still should I not have some hope of winning the odd one?
I would say I had a 75% chance of winning before and did cater as well but now am down to suicide missions so can only cater.
Are we to anticipate an additional update to perhaps balance a bit more at the lower levels?
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
Meridann said:
I have only scouted 58 provinces and at my widest point have reached the 7th ring, Some only the 5th or 6th ring.
Click to expand...
The view of the dev's would probably still be you have cleared too many provinces, unfortunately :(
 

DeletedUser2361

Guest
Sadly I believe you are correct. I forgot to mention that I have not conquered all of those provinces either as I can no longer win even in the 5th ring.
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
Meridann said:
I forgot to mention that I have not conquered all of those provinces either as I can no longer win even in the 5th ring.
Click to expand...

Yep, fun now isn't it, the only option is to use all your goods, so you can do less trades, and therefore help people less by fewer trades:(
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
If anyone is looking at clearing provinces with goods as their only option...wait until Wonky Walter starts as you need to get relics as some of the quests;)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Meridann said:
Having worked my way through several threads I have an observation. A lot of what I read is about having advanced too quickly and scouting too many provinces and that is why we cannot win battles as we are facing armies much greater than ours. Many people have hundreds of provinces scouted and are larger players.
Click to expand...
@Meridann, I second to you. If Inno tried to 'balance' there is now serious flaw. One player in my Finnish FS had as many scouted provinces as she should have according to Inno. Still she hadn't won battles since last update. For her battles have been the most important part of this game. We fellows pleaded her in our chat to hang on or just to take a little break to cool down. Yes, she had also sent her feedback herself. She wasn't convinced by the response she got and today she quit.

Yesterday AM of my Finnish FS cast a vote whether we join the protest started by top Finnish players. The results were overwhelming and now we are part of the protest. We keep on playing, but don't buy diamonds until Inno changes this new unfair battle system and stops punishing good players.

For me the changes in battles didn't hit so bad because I have mainly negotiated provinces in Finnish server. It was my chosen strategy from the very beginning. I used to fight only easy crystal provinces and never manually. Later I started a village at the English server trying to learn fighting from the beginning against easier enemies. I found out fighting is not my cup of tea.

In any case I can really feel those disappointed with battle changes. Last summer I was as much disappointed when I couldn't negotiate provinces anymore because of orcs. I was in the middle of fairies. I had no idea I had scouted too far ;) And yes, I feel I was punished for that. Now I've started to produce orcs and I can negotiate again. I don't mind if scouting costs much because my main hall is full most of the time. I don't mind if scouting takes 1-2 days because I'm not in a hurry. Still, it's ridiculous, I have to keep and upgrade armories although I'm not fighting just to get orcs for negotiations.
 

DeletedUser363

Guest
The problem is when we were advancing we hadn't been told there were any limits we should stay within, even when the dev's realised they needed to make changes we weren't told to stop clearing provinces...it was suggested to use up our troops before the update...which meant clearing more provinces, putting us further ahead of where the dev's want us...anyone notice a theme here :confused:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I’m not sure exactly what the intention is from INNO. If it’s because a lot of players are far ahead with clearing provinces then I don’t understand why it suddenly has be so hard to clear a province when you’re struggling with provinces you HAVE to clear before you can advance. This is my situation

If INNO think the fights have been too easy then I don’t understand why they now have to be so hard. Maybe they should have changed the balance just a Little? If they prepare us for new units then I don’t understand why they haven’t implemented those units yet. Do we have to struggle a couple of weeks before those units are released that will turn the tide?

People should be careful when they claim that 90% do this or 90% think so, no one of us really now. The only concern I have is my own way of playing this game. I just want to advance in the tech-tree. Unlock those things that make my city better. But to do that I have to clear some provinces and it’s this I don’t understand. If we play at the pace INNO wants us to do why do we suddenly have such a hard time just survive a battle. I have to admit that I still win the fights but as I wrote in an earlier post the amount of lost units is just too high. They are so high that I just don’t feel to start any fight anymore.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Hello. This half made update is like a surgeon' s job who starts an operation and planning to finish it after a long holiday. I think now is the time for a holiday for active players. Let' s stop playing this game for a week and let's see what will happen. Let' s see what INNO says when clicks number will drop dramatic.
Unfortunately, few players read this forum. So, if anybody agree my suggestion, please help to spread this message among players using game messenger.
 

DeletedUser1161

Guest
Tiriake said:
@Marindor I did read your post after I wrote mine. So you claim that it was not INNO's intention to punish us. Am I getting that right? Perhaps you are telling the truth. However I think you are missing an important point here. Why people are so angry.

Inno decided to implement a really big change. Maybe after months this update turns out to be ok and people won't be angry anymore. And we see this mysterious awesome balance you keep talking about. But right now this change is not giving out any positive effect. We are stuck. We are told over and over that it's because we are not were we are supposed to be. However nobody ever told us that scouting was wrong and that's how we got to that point.
I can't speak for other people. But I personally feel punished for being active player. I feel that I am stuck. And I feel that team INNO focuses right now only on saying what a great update they cooked up, while completly forgetting players. Players who got hit the worst by this update. I don't see any plan suggested to us how to go on with this wall ahead of us. How to adjust to the change. And I feel that the reaction from lets say team Inno is very dismissive and we are not being taken seriously. Basically big part of the problem is bad PR. If Inno wants this game to have actual players who would play it. Something will have to change. Give us hope. Because right now 2 and 3 part of the battle update is not doing it. Give us something that would ease our progress until we reach that place when we finally are in a place where we are supposed to be. Right now you are not doing it. It's really not helping at all that in the promo video for the battle we were promised that this change will make fighting "fun and easy". Seriously what is right now fun about this update? Like seriously. I have to wait months maybe even more until I get to a point where I'm supposed to be.

Since you claim that there is a plan involved. Logic to this update. I have few questions and I would like to get direct answers. Right now team Inno is doing nothing about the fact this update has closed one part of the game for months (fighting in provinces) for me. So I have to figure out what to do and how to not make this situation worse for myself. So as I said I have few questions. In order to catch up to where I am supposed to be so I would find fights in province that are possible to win.
Right now I have scouted 217 and conquered 215 province and I'm at the very beginning of the fairy chapter.

1)When I am allowed to scout again? (Which chapter)
2) In which chapter I can find provinces where it's possible to win a battle?
3)How many provinces I am allowed to conquer/scout per chapter?

I would seriously like to get an answer from team Inno to those questions, because if there indeed is a plan for this mess somewhere then it should be an easy answer.
Click to expand...
So well said Tiriake they have not took into consideration the players that have scouted more provinces, I have completed 246 provinces and now i'm at a standstill, cannot fight just get beat all the time and cannot negotiate as I need orcs, I have stopped training troops as it's pointless I am now at a standstill, my fellowship has to negotiate when they can now or they will not win the fights. Something needs done about this and quickly before people start to leave. Please take into consideration the higher players that are now stuck and cannot fight ty
 
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