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Spire max team score.

CrazyWizard

Shaman
If your FS gets enough boosters, it is not a problem. (If not, you gotta save them). I finished the Spire in one hour. Because in three many of my precious buildings are going to expire in three. Add the buildings one hour after the tourney starts. So you can do Spire, wait the whole 3h in the 2nd door. You will have still two hours to complete the rest of the spire boosting the doors. You get even more out of the buildings, and a happy-tummy fire bird.
What is that supposed to be?

In general I get 6 light ranged boosters in a 9 week period, I have no clue how you like to smear those out over 9 spires?

In fact I plan my tournaments in such a fashion I can do 2 tournaments with the same building, that way I can double the effective use of my booster buildings.
This means during half the spires there is at no point any booster building active. Icebear was a godsend in this regard, as it removed the strict regime required for such a play. It's now a walk in the park. 15-20K scores and 700-850 KP in about 4 hours of time and you decide where those 4 ours fit into a 24h timetable. awesome!

Also you say I need time boosters to retrain my troops in the spire, then I need time boosters to pay of all my waiting times so I can use tourney boosters in the tower.
Where are my time boosters to shoot my tourney scores to ridicule levels? by this time there ain't that many left anymore.
One reason I play the spire is so I can extract 300kp more out of my tournaments than without the spire. not every now and then but every single week.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
I agree with this, it makes sense, even though it does look a bit funny. 1330 is what is needed for the waypoint that is displayed. They have achieved more than that and it should also show that they did. So no problem with the display.

For those that wonder why 25 finishers are not 1575: One (or more) of them must have joined during the spire and has done part of the spire before they joined. Since it is 21 points missing it is most likely 1 person that had completed lvl 1before joining.
Makes sence, but that wasnt the case.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
yup tho I dont need it gold is gold, who cares who got first, I have seen people been thrown out a guild just because they wanted to get first that week, insane!

They don't mind keeping the loophole open since you cannot win anything with placing first.

It's also an advantage fellowships can use to improve motivation, if you can guarantee the players they will get the top prize if they make it to the top, they are more inclined to reach the top, by then so many reach the top you reach is without a bag of tricks, but that initial hurdle can be overcome with it.

We simply said it it doesnt happen, we make it happen, and BOEM instantly people got to the top as they knew they would get a return on there invested diamonds to reach te top. it was kinda funny to see how much of a difference that "call" made from a psychological point of vieuw.

I think that might be by far the biggest benefit of this loophole. that giant step to the top is a pretty big hurdle for many fellowships to overcome.
Some players actualy liketo compete and crush others by a ton :)
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
Here is my issue, both buildings and squads give me massive rewards at the tournaments,
And those buildings are my most precious inventory to deal with tournaments.

My entire tournament play revolves around managing my inventory of combat buildings, how much do I get on average on a 9 week cycle and how can i distribute them as effectivly as possible in the 9 different tournaments for maximum result.

The only thing I use less and less (except for scrolls tournaments) are goods.
While I am always struggling managing my coins (I craften a huge stack of coin rains for comming chapter) supplies and goods are a perfect match for the towen and those are just stockpiling higher and higher. I can manage the tower with 1 T4-5-6 factory boosted by wonders and running magical productions 24/7, even growing my stocks a bit each week.

So I feel that the tower is a place you can negotiate yourself to the top better than fighting yourself tot the top.
And while my productions are high so are my penalties in the tower for having too many wonderslevels :(
1. Every squadsize upgrade incrases dificulty in tourney & spire, skip every one who dont lead nowhere.
2.spire is for fighting as primary option, i clear spire every week, no matter if i have boosts or not, i got my fire phoenix only during this even.... 90%fighting/10% negotiations.
3. you want decent spire team as from spire team rewards you will get a ton of 5hr boosters back, use those to boost barracks when producing troops for next weeks spire & toruney.
4. Spire gives a lot of options, even offers to complete it with only manual fights. Learn to use troops, it will make huge difference, even for autofights - who goes first, positioning (order that you add units to a fight - slot1,slot2,slot3,slot4,slot5).

Hope it helps.
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
1. Every squadsize upgrade incrases dificulty in tourney & spire, skip every one who dont lead nowhere.
2.spire is for fighting as primary option, i clear spire every week, no matter if i have boosts or not, i got my fire phoenix only during this even.... 90%fighting/10% negotiations.
3. you want decent spire team as from spire team rewards you will get a ton of 5hr boosters back, use those to boost barracks when producing troops for next weeks spire & toruney.
4. Spire gives a lot of options, even offers to complete it with only manual fights. Learn to use troops, it will make huge difference, even for autofights - who goes first, positioning (order that you add units to a fight - slot1,slot2,slot3,slot4,slot5).

Hope it helps.
I absolutly loved this response...:eek:



I clearly noted that I want the recources free for tournaments, not to make 1600 points but just a tidy bit more than that ;)

As for your points
1, No one knows how the spire forumula works so thats a bold claim, unless you have access to the server side source code, in that case please enlighten us,
@MinMax Gamer is trying to solve the puzzle but he still has a few trips to the moon and back to go. and thats just 1 section of the equasion.
2. I totally disagree, tournaments on high levels can't be played with goods alone as demonstrated by the french
https://fr.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/de-léquilibre-entre-combat-et-négociation.20493/page-2#post-1010456
His absolute record is 25 provincies, compared to 80 with just troops.
The Spire on the other hand is playable week in week out with just negotiating if your city is prepared for it. there is no way to prep your city for a full tourney after chapter 4.
3. I hope this team is good enough for you
1587140281199.png
4. https://nl.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/gevechten-de-knokbijbel-gevechtsgids.2111/
and my former website
http://crazywizard.info/en/index-en.html

I rest my case.

Fyi, in 99% of the cases on autobattle as default you want to use 5x the same unit, there are some exceptions
The second you start mixing and matching units from different categories you run into autoloss and many unpredictable results with overall much higher losses. it might work on a single battle but thats the exception. Autofight and manual battles are 2 completely different ballparks.
Also Manual battles.. nty I am alrady doing up to 1920 battles a week, manual only comes out of a really good locked safe only once per 9 weeks during steel tournament and event them only less than half the battles with 95% going on semi automatic where I just control the first round to avoid the AI from doing dumb stuff.
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
I absolutly loved this response...:eek:



I clearly noted that I want the recources free for tournaments, not to make 1600 points but just a tidy bit more than that ;)

As for your points
1, No one knows how the spire forumula works so thats a bold claim, unless you have access to the server side source code, in that case please enlighten us,
@MinMax Gamer is trying to solve the puzzle but he still has a few trips to the moon and back to go. and thats just 1 section of the equasion.
2. I totally disagree, tournaments on high levels can't be played with goods alone as demonstrated by the french
https://fr.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/de-léquilibre-entre-combat-et-négociation.20493/page-2#post-1010456
His absolute record is 25 provincies, compared to 80 with just troops.
The Spire on the other hand is playable week in week out with just negotiating if your city is prepared for it. there is no way to prep your city for a full tourney after chapter 4.
3. I hope this team is good enough for you
4. https://nl.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/gevechten-de-knokbijbel-gevechtsgids.2111/
and my former website
http://crazywizard.info/en/index-en.html

I rest my case.

Fyi, in 99% of the cases on autobattle as default you want to use 5x the same unit, there are some exceptions
The second you start mixing and matching units from different categories you run into autoloss and many unpredictable results with overall much higher losses. it might work on a single battle but thats the exception. Autofight and manual battles are 2 completely different ballparks.
Also Manual battles.. nty I am alrady doing up to 1920 battles a week, manual only comes out of a really good locked safe only once per 9 weeks during steel tournament and event them only less than half the battles with 95% going on semi automatic where I just control the first round to avoid the AI from doing dumb stuff.
why would you want spend any goods on tournaments ? tournament has never been easier than nowdays, if you understand game mechanics. You can craft stuff, you get a ton of time instants. Only hard battles are sometimes found in spire encounters.


1. every 6year old can chek it by simply playing the game.
2. what goods? i havent said, you need to do tournament with goods, fighting in spire is primary, also in tournaments, just use troops. why the hell would some1 would spend goods on a tournament ? :D :D :D
3. if you brag with your page, then do at least decent guestrace guides and tournament guides. Info found in either crazy wizzard or GOK are for beginners only.

who cares about unit looses ? this week i will do 5x35 tourney provs, full spire and still have 1.5k + unis sitting and passing the pipe in my barracks. And i dont even have brown bear. Only place for autofights now are in few spire battles, thats it, if you love your time that is. If you play 2k manuals per week, then wake up, its 2020, not 2016.

And last ... NO, you do can mix units in 3/2 combos by 2,3,3,2,2 or ,2,2,2,3,3 types, if you know how to use them (understanding of game mechanics).
 
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DeletedUser4003

Guest
I absolutly loved this response...:eek:



I clearly noted that I want the recources free for tournaments, not to make 1600 points but just a tidy bit more than that ;)

As for your points
1, No one knows how the spire forumula works so thats a bold claim, unless you have access to the server side source code, in that case please enlighten us,
@MinMax Gamer is trying to solve the puzzle but he still has a few trips to the moon and back to go. and thats just 1 section of the equasion.
2. I totally disagree, tournaments on high levels can't be played with goods alone as demonstrated by the french
https://fr.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/de-léquilibre-entre-combat-et-négociation.20493/page-2#post-1010456
His absolute record is 25 provincies, compared to 80 with just troops.
The Spire on the other hand is playable week in week out with just negotiating if your city is prepared for it. there is no way to prep your city for a full tourney after chapter 4.
3. I hope this team is good enough for you
4. https://nl.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/gevechten-de-knokbijbel-gevechtsgids.2111/
and my former website
http://crazywizard.info/en/index-en.html

I rest my case.

Fyi, in 99% of the cases on autobattle as default you want to use 5x the same unit, there are some exceptions
The second you start mixing and matching units from different categories you run into autoloss and many unpredictable results with overall much higher losses. it might work on a single battle but thats the exception. Autofight and manual battles are 2 completely different ballparks.
Also Manual battles.. nty I am alrady doing up to 1920 battles a week, manual only comes out of a really good locked safe only once per 9 weeks during steel tournament and event them only less than half the battles with 95% going on semi automatic where I just control the first round to avoid the AI from doing dumb stuff.

I will also add, that im curently in research sweetspot. @ch9, got barracks 25, but hasnt grabed a single SS upgrade and never had been requested a mana in negotiation game(i cheked full spire for last two weeks). Guess what will happen as soon as i will research my first ss upgrade in ch9 ? :)
 

CrazyWizard

Shaman
why would you want spend any goods on tournaments ? tournament has never been easier than nowdays, if you understand game mechanics. You can craft stuff, you get a ton of time instants. Only hard battles are sometimes found in spire encounters.


1. every 6year old can chek it by simply playing the game.
2. what goods? i havent said, you need to do tournament with goods, fighting in spire is primary, also in tournaments, just use troops. why the hell would some1 would spend goods on a tournament ? :D :D :D
3. if you brag with your page, then do at least decent guestrace guides and tournament guides. Info found in either crazy wizzard or GOK are for beginners only.

who cares about unit looses ? this week i will do 5x35 tourney provs, full spire and still have 1.5k + unis sitting and passing the pipe in my barracks. And i dont even have brown bear. Only place for autofights now are in few spire battles, thats it, if you love your time that is. If you play 2k manuals per week, then wake up, its 2020, not 2016.

And last ... NO, you do can mix units in 3/2 combos by 2,3,3,2,2 or ,2,2,2,3,3 types, if you know how to use them (understanding of game mechanics).

...

I have stated before in this topic that I feel spire is a negotiation place. so how are you connecting the dots that I need goods in my tournaments?
Amazing,

Also guides are written for beginners, thats the whole point of a guide in general, know your audience.

from your PM to me:
For your info, i held tournament highscore on this server with score over 10k back when people couldnt do back to back 8 k. Time instants were not acsesable so easy and troop dmg buildings were rewards during only big events as dailys.
Talking about bragging,
Anyone can throw everyting they have got in 1 tournament and get an awesome result, skill is show by having consistent stable results in all situations.
If you did this every week, I would gladly take my had of. but you mix 10K with 800.

Putting all you eggs in one basket doesn't show any skill, in that time I never used a single combat building just because I wanted to save them fire more dire times. I still got 6K scores every single week, sometimes a bit more, and sometimes a bit less (scrolls) Those rogue monkeys that went all in, I just ignored them as it would hurt my result in the long run. let them have there moment and i'll pick up place 2 or 3 instead.

Lets brag a bit more,
*bragging rights on*
My average Tournament score is like 17k, My lifetime tournament rankingpoints are 174K, and in 2018 when I started to record my squads I started with 3186 squads, currently I am running 13402 squads, each tournament on average I use about 1500 squads. thats your entire stock
*braggin rights of*

This topic is about learning from others,
It was just hilarious that someone told me to learn how to play a game trying to teach me the basics while I wrote whole guides for others.

I do understand the game mechanics well but always eager to learn from others, as I have done in the past from people who figured out some troop combinations are bad on paper and good in reality :S.
But when you claim that in auto mode using troops "smart" and learning game mechanics shows me that you are at best a troll,
In auto mode you cannot see the map, as such you have no clue if your unit on spot x can reach unit Y since there might me obstacles in the way,
This results fairly quick in total losses.

Also in manual the thing you do most of the time is "wait"and avoid in the first round, this is because sending in your troops all out is to often a suicide mission and dumb action.
This is increased 10 fold then you mix and match units with different move / initiative rates.
And what does the AI on automode? It runs ahead like a chicken without a head.

When people struggle in the tournaments we often ask for examples and each and every time they are trying to do what you suggest, "being smart"
Each time we tell them to start unsing 5x the same unit and each time there results improve by 50-100% and they start having more fun in the tournaments.

Are all these people wrong? are there instantly improved results magic?
No the AI is just dumb, and if you analyse it's movements you notice a pattern where it simply can't properly handle units of different types (and obstacles) and then makes stupid mistakes, things if you play manually are constantly exploiting.
The AI behavior becomes more predictable with units of the same type, improving it's results.

Lets be fair there are a few viable combinations possible that you have to learn by experimenting, but in general you can say they are combinations of similar units. Hunters with Archers, golems with strategist, frog prince is a bit more versatile with it's insane range which might be exploitable but to it's poor initiative he is so slow then most of your dumb running ahead units are already punished.
But even if you are using "different units" in general there pretty much the same, as for example archers and hunters are both light ranged units and strategisg and golems are the same unit with different accents.
 
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AstralSoul

Illusionist
What is that supposed to be?

In general I get 6 light ranged boosters in a 9 week period, I have no clue how you like to smear those out over 9 spires?

Time boosters haha, as we always called them. Not the platoon spells, but the 5h boosters.

3. you want decent spire team as from spire team rewards you will get a ton of 5hr boosters back, use those to boost barracks when producing troops for next weeks spire & toruney.
4. Spire gives a lot of options, even offers to complete it with only manual fights. Learn to use troops, it will make huge difference, even for autofights - who goes first, positioning (order that you add units to a fight - slot1,slot2,slot3,slot4,slot5).

Hope it helps.

Exactly what I have been trying to say. It can be done mindlessly too, spending about 100 elite archer squad, with good needles, plenty of armories, and workshop, you will do fine. Feed the bird, add a couple of power buildings, and in two hours you finish the 3rd boss floor. Easier and cheaper to fight, it is only,I think, four times your squad size each squad size for three rounds.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Hi everyone!
Just a quick reminder that this is the initial question: ...

Inno mathematcis or should i say, Inno methematics?

Team did full complete spire run and got 1554 points, so 63x25 = 1554 ? :D

Tourney Bandits broke the game xD
 

DeletedUser

Guest
... And this is one of the closest replies to the initial question: ...

I agree with this, it makes sense, even though it does look a bit funny. 1330 is what is needed for the waypoint that is displayed. They have achieved more than that and it should also show that they did. So no problem with the display.

For those that wonder why 25 finishers are not 1575: One (or more) of them must have joined during the spire and has done part of the spire before they joined. Since it is 21 points missing it is most likely 1 person that had completed lvl 1before joining.

As much as it is fascinating to have all sorts of varied opinions on the answer, one must admit that, lately, replies have gotten a bit...shall we say... off-topic if not driven right into the ditch. Let's re-focus a teeny-weeny bit ;)
 

DeletedUser4003

Guest
...

I have stated before in this topic that I feel spire is a negotiation place. so how are you connecting the dots that I need goods in my tournaments?
Amazing,

Also guides are written for beginners, thats the whole point of a guide in general, know your audience.

from your PM to me:

Talking about bragging,
Anyone can throw everyting they have got in 1 tournament and get an awesome result, skill is show by having consistent stable results in all situations.
If you did this every week, I would gladly take my had of. but you mix 10K with 800.

Putting all you eggs in one basket doesn't show any skill, in that time I never used a single combat building just because I wanted to save them fire more dire times. I still got 6K scores every single week, sometimes a bit more, and sometimes a bit less (scrolls) Those rogue monkeys that went all in, I just ignored them as it would hurt my result in the long run. let them have there moment and i'll pick up place 2 or 3 instead.

Lets brag a bit more,
*bragging rights on*
My average Tournament score is like 17k, My lifetime tournament rankingpoints are 174K, and in 2018 when I started to record my squads I started with 3186 squads, currently I am running 13402 squads, each tournament on average I use about 1500 squads. thats your entire stock
*braggin rights of*

This topic is about learning from others,
It was just hilarious that someone told me to learn how to play a game trying to teach me the basics while I wrote whole guides for others.

I do understand the game mechanics well but always eager to learn from others, as I have done in the past from people who figured out some troop combinations are bad on paper and good in reality :S.
But when you claim that in auto mode using troops "smart" and learning game mechanics shows me that you are at best a troll,
In auto mode you cannot see the map, as such you have no clue if your unit on spot x can reach unit Y since there might me obstacles in the way,
This results fairly quick in total losses.

Also in manual the thing you do most of the time is "wait"and avoid in the first round, this is because sending in your troops all out is to often a suicide mission and dumb action.
This is increased 10 fold then you mix and match units with different move / initiative rates.
And what does the AI on automode? It runs ahead like a chicken without a head.

When people struggle in the tournaments we often ask for examples and each and every time they are trying to do what you suggest, "being smart"
Each time we tell them to start unsing 5x the same unit and each time there results improve by 50-100% and they start having more fun in the tournaments.

Are all these people wrong? are there instantly improved results magic?
No the AI is just dumb, and if you analyse it's movements you notice a pattern where it simply can't properly handle units of different types (and obstacles) and then makes stupid mistakes, things if you play manually are constantly exploiting.
The AI behavior becomes more predictable with units of the same type, improving it's results.

Lets be fair there are a few viable combinations possible that you have to learn by experimenting, but in general you can say they are combinations of similar units. Hunters with Archers, golems with strategist, frog prince is a bit more versatile with it's insane range which might be exploitable but to it's poor initiative he is so slow then most of your dumb running ahead units are already punished.
But even if you are using "different units" in general there pretty much the same, as for example archers and hunters are both light ranged units and strategisg and golems are the same unit with different accents.
yes, funny ... 17k avg .... tournament is only about province numbers and invested time, brainless clicking nowdays ... even in scroll tournament all you just need is pet food, craft few booster buildings and barracks archers only. Where all you tourney heros were few years ago with highscores? doing back2back 5ks xD

Not to mention its ridiculous to even talk about loses nowdays, because you can have as many units you need every week. My opinion is its about efficiently using troop boosters, not units, boosters are harder to get than units...by far.

About spire, at first i played on negoation game too, have dont a lot of full runs, when switched to 90%troops/10% minigame , the coast for full diplomatic run is insaine compared when fighting. If some1 loves mini game, he can open on other realm (windy/Fely) a ch 3 city to play diplo run and make extra diamonds for hes main city. Same as you can do with wwells.

and yes, ofcourse i had some 800 point games, because back then you should actualy put in some work for that kind of score, when it was hard, thats the reason why only i think 3 people have done it in world, not this server.

that was the time, you build 1050 squads with needles 11, no time boosters & ELR was as a daily in grand events. :) Have done at that time back 2 back 2 backs, all over 5k manual fights only, insaine time waste, but at that time saving units was worth something.
 
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