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merc camp

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cherri, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. cherri

    cherri Alchemist

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    i wish to get rid of my merc camp its bloody useless and a waste of space i dont use it at all, when i did during a tourny i could have cheerfully burnt the thing to the ground. So after all that is it worth keeping in the hopes it gets better or just dump the thing. fel free to move this a sto b honest o just clicked on the first think that let me type this out lol
     
  2. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    i don't use a merc camp or training grounds. they are slightly useful, especially for those that don't have tactics good enough to fight w/ the regular units they were given from their barracks. those extra buildings are an even bigger waste if you have a decent needles wonder, since only regular barracks units get the extra production boost. i'm sure some people will probably tell you it's a good thing to have. but i'll bet those people often run low on units. so far, every chapter quest i've seen that involves using a merc camp can be declined.
    [​IMG]
    seems best to adapt your style to using the regular units than to have the excess baggage and penalties from using units that mostly just offer more variety.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  3. Lelanya

    Lelanya Shaman

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    At high level the Merc Camp helps level the playing field for elven players with the Blossom Mage. She is useful, so are the Drone Riders and the Vallorian Guards. I've tried Faineant Frogs but have had a weird error with erratic damage that the mods are unable to duplicate in the live realms! Lol

    Had the Merc Camp built in Fairy, sold it when I got the quest for Pond of Rec, put it back during an FA in late Woodelves, in my elven city. My barracks and Training ground are perfectly fine in my human cities. This coming FA, the 3 are useful for Guard badge building.
     
    m4rt1n likes this.
  4. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    One important advantage of Mercenary Camp is that even at level 1 its training speed is MUCH better than the speed of low-level Barracks. In my Felyndral city my Barracks have barely been upgraded, so whenever I need to train X units for an even quest I use the Merecenary Camp - in a few hours it trains more units than my Barracks in a day (and that's without the Flying Academy, so no boost on its training speed).

    As for the units it offers...
    The Mercenary Camp units are great for Elves: Blossom Mages are the only long-range mage unit we have, Frogs are the only long-range Heavy Ranged unit we have (great when there are a lot of obstacles to slow down enemies), Valorian Guards are our only Heavy Melee unit with a range of 2 (again, great when there are many obstacles that would force Treants to go around them), Drone Riders are not bad (though I rarely find a use for them), and Rangers are actually better than Elven Archers most of the time - Rangers have better movement, higher initiative, have strike back, and have 90% defense again mage units compared to the 0% of Elven archers (both Rangers and Elven Archers also have 90% attack bonus against mage units; Elven Archers also have better bonuses against Heavy Melee, but I prefer mages agaisnt Heavy Melee, so that makes no difference to me).

    The Mercenary Camp units are considerably less useful for Humans: The Mortar is a long-range Heavy Ranged unit obtained long before the Frogs, the Paladin already has range of 2 and is obtained long before the Valorian Guard, andtThe Priest is a long-range mage unit that gets its final upgrade shortly after you unlock Blossom Mage (thugh the Priest has more HP at the cost of lower damage and lower initiative). That leaves only the Ranger and Drone Rider.
     
  5. Lelanya

    Lelanya Shaman

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Drone Riders are great! They are excellent against mages/walker combos, with a reach of 5 as they have move of 4; and tougher than dogs. Try them out
     
    FatOldElf likes this.
  6. Dr.nYo

    Dr.nYo Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    never had Merc Camp so i wont comment about but for any1 whos fighting tourney/provinces Training Grounds is a must have. they has almost same production time in end game chapters and both have their respectable aws. each type of units has some kinda advantage against 2 types of units but its only op against 1 type actually. this is why u has to have both. example : Human holy paladin- op against heavy ranged, good against light melee; orc warrior- op against light melee, good vs heavy ranged. those are both heavy melee. mixing both vs heavy ranged/light melee will always have alot better result then just going with barrack type. i hope u catch my point ;)


     
  7. FatOldElf

    FatOldElf Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    2star mc units > barrack units

    mid/end of halflings is where you want to start using them, start working on flying academy as you get it.
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  8. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    according to elven architect and wiki, the production times for merc camps and barracks are all the same if we measure them at the same points in the same chapters. an amuni barracks starts at a speed of 270 and has a max speed of 350 when fully upgraded, just like a merc camp. it's more likely people will have a stronger needles wonder than flying academy. again, merc camp units need an extra building and maybe an extra wonder to compete w/ barracks units that all have more health than merc camp units. merc camp and training grounds units might have some slight advantages vs some units, but they come w/ extra costs and those advantages can turn into disadvantages easily since we almost never fight an enemy group that has all units of the same type. the barracks units' extra health becomes an advantage in those cases.
    if you have a needles wonder that's better than your flying academy, i wouldn't use or have a merc camp. i wouldn't waste the kp on a flying academy either. i also wouldn't waste months worth of goods in a single week's tournament. that doesn't seem like a sustainable tactic for the long term growth of a city.
     
  9. FatOldElf

    FatOldElf Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    That is a casual players opinion.
    For people who like to compete ....MC is a must have same as Flying Academy wonder.
    MC units are a LOT better then barrack units, when they hit 3 stars, they are already better when they hit 2 stars.
    Barracks units are not working very well when you hit S&D chapter ... rounds 5 & 6. Sometimes even round 4, it depends on tourney and human/elves race.

    I actually had an idea to not level barracks past level 25 ...and from end of halflings play with only MC + TG units, but i haven't done research is that's possible, so cant confirm yet. If that would be possible, it would save a ton of cult and pop by not upgrading barracks & downside is ....weak tournament potential during chpt 11.

    I believe we could get 4th type of units and a new military production building in next 3 chapters 14-17, considering current system.
     
  10. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    i would like to see a 4th building w/ new units. an undead guest race would be a great idea and could give us all sorts of cool new units, like skeleton archers, vampires, mummies, zombies, etc.

    i am actually finished w/ elementals and my barracks units are still winning plenty of fights for me, sometimes even in round 6. i also have pretty much between 250 to 300 full squads of each barracks unit, even at amuni sized squads. it seems like those who use merc camps and training grounds are the ones that are often running low on troops. that's probably because most people build and invest in a needles wonder well before they can build a flying academy and because even 15% extra production speed from a level 1 needles wonder outweighs any of the slight advantages of merc camp or training grounds units. those units mostly just offer a variety of range and movement that aren't often needed. they have some other advantages, like offense and defense bonuses that only apply to certain types of matchups. but those advantages are usually negated because every barracks unit has more health, sometimes is better in almost every other category, and can be produced at a faster rate if you have a stronger needles than flying academy.

    merc camps and flying academies come w/ costs-land, people, culture, and kp. that could be a good route for someone who needs dust and scroll relics and wants cerbs and drone riders. for anyone w/ a needles wonder w/ any kp invested into it that uses a merc camp or training grounds, you're sacrificing faster troop production and using more land for mostly a better variety of units to choose when barracks units can do the same job. you can't use a needles wonder to increase troop production and a merc camp at the same time. you should choose one or the other.
    cherri is right. she probably should burn it to the ground and add an armory if she wants to be more successful in combat.
     
  11. FatOldElf

    FatOldElf Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Baisicly what you're saying is... No point to upgrade residences past level 15, since level 15 residences gives population too.

    You are very close to discover the true power of MC units.
    When you compere health, please consider those bonuses (defense & attack).

    You really should do some auto fighting to understand that there is not only basic unit stats, there are these advantages: offense & defense bonuses, range, movement, doing first hit to enemy & applying spells instead of receiving hit first and getting spells on yourself, when to focus fire enemy squad or when spread first hits to cripple all enemy squads.

    And production speed is up to you, since you want to have your MC units at mid/end of chpt. 11.
    But to get decent training speed at that point, you want to start working on your FA asap (end of chapter 9).

    MC units are a LOT BETTER vs barrack units, if you know how to use them that is. That's a fact. (next tier units)

    Its up to you, how fast you produce them. No excuses ....

    The correct question here is do your play style requires this effort.

    There are players who compete for top spots in tourneys, there are players who compete for 30th place in tourneys.
    There are also players who compete for top100 and there are players who don't compete at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  12. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    what happened to your city? why isn't it functioning anymore?
     
  13. FatOldElf

    FatOldElf Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    it is functioning, i had 5.4 k in tis tourney :)
     
  14. yo momma love me

    yo momma love me Conjurer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2017
    your city that has been abandoned for months, the one w/ the tournament score you are always showing off, why would you quit so early in your research since you obviously want to keep playing?
     
  15. FatOldElf

    FatOldElf Bard

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    ^ Read my previous post.
     
    Lelanya likes this.
  16. Viskyar

    Viskyar Alchemist

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Without going a long way in theory and numbers, I will say about the principles.
    A 1 and 2 star army is useless against a 3-star army.
    The battles are too short, on a small area and with many obstacles on the pitch.
    As the player progresses, the size of the army is increasingly important. It follows that whoever first hits, he wins. And it follows that losses are lower for soldiers with more blood / health.
    I am at the end of the Amuni chapter, a squad size of 2508. In the current tournament already in the 7th province, second round, the enemy army has 3 stars!
    Two or three times I built a merc camp and then sold it.
    I do not see any benefit from him, as the soldiers he produces do not get 3 stars.
     
  17. shadowblack

    shadowblack Necromancer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    That is actually not true. 2-star and 3-star uinits have the same stats, however 3-star units have a special skill 2-star units lack (or, or the case of mage units, 3-star units have a second special skill while 2-star mages have only one special).

    Again, not true. Health only matters if you get hit. If you move first and kill the enemy before he gets to attack, health is irrelevant. Mercenary Camp units have better initiative and higher damage than Barracks units, so they can kill more enemies before they get hit.

    There are other issues to consider, but I already explained them in my previous post. So if you are an Elf player don't be so quick to ignore the Mercenary Camp (if you are a Human player, better focus on Training Grounds instead).
     
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