DeletedUser4843
Guest
A radical idea, I know, but when InnoGame trials an idea on Beta which is met with storms of protests from the players, then perhaps it would be prudent not to ignore that and roll it out to the International worlds.
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DeletedUser
Guest
To which storms of protests do you refer?
Pauly7
Master of the Elements
My experience of this forum thus far is that nothing said here is responded to by the developers. I have no idea if they are even seeing any of it.
Even posts in the suggestions forum or the bug reporting forum aren't replied to which makes me wonder why they would even take the trouble to set up this platform.
Even posts in the suggestions forum or the bug reporting forum aren't replied to which makes me wonder why they would even take the trouble to set up this platform.
DeletedUser1772
Guest
I used to be a Mod in a different game and my experience there was...
Mods are too low in the food chain to have any power over the devs. For the most they do their dandiest to be the bridge between the players and the devs. The devs don't sweat much, if the Mods look silly when devs don't provide them with sufficient and|or timely info to be conveyed to the players.
And the devs usually have a long-term game plan of several months. When they incorporate changes to accommodate something they plan for a few months from now, it is VERY difficult to persuade them to not do it after it's tested, no matter how many complains, as it would mean changing their long term strategy, too.
If the Mod-devs relationship in this game works differently, my sincere apologies to both!
Mods are too low in the food chain to have any power over the devs. For the most they do their dandiest to be the bridge between the players and the devs. The devs don't sweat much, if the Mods look silly when devs don't provide them with sufficient and|or timely info to be conveyed to the players.
And the devs usually have a long-term game plan of several months. When they incorporate changes to accommodate something they plan for a few months from now, it is VERY difficult to persuade them to not do it after it's tested, no matter how many complains, as it would mean changing their long term strategy, too.
If the Mod-devs relationship in this game works differently, my sincere apologies to both!
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Pauly7
Master of the Elements
I've never been a moderator, but I don't blame mods for any of this. The way I see it either they are getting no information from the devs, or they're getting information that they are being asked not to pass on. In either case if that was me I would soon take the decision that there's not much point being a mod in the first place.
I understand that there is probably a long term plan and I understand that they are probably not going to have their minds changed by a hundred or a thousand people complaining that they are not being given the rewards that they used to. However what I found and continue to find unacceptable is for there to be no dialogue at all from them. The only reason that I have been inciting people to stop spending diamonds to try to force action is that they should be out here explaining what is going on, giving their real reasoning and listening to the things that are upsetting people. If they are never going to do this then, as I have said, why on earth would they even set up this forum and community? The intention may be just to bring players together to share ideas and bond, but if they set up an "ideas and suggestions" section and a "bug reporting" section then they should also be taking the time to respond to the posts in them.
I understand that there is probably a long term plan and I understand that they are probably not going to have their minds changed by a hundred or a thousand people complaining that they are not being given the rewards that they used to. However what I found and continue to find unacceptable is for there to be no dialogue at all from them. The only reason that I have been inciting people to stop spending diamonds to try to force action is that they should be out here explaining what is going on, giving their real reasoning and listening to the things that are upsetting people. If they are never going to do this then, as I have said, why on earth would they even set up this forum and community? The intention may be just to bring players together to share ideas and bond, but if they set up an "ideas and suggestions" section and a "bug reporting" section then they should also be taking the time to respond to the posts in them.
DeletedUser1772
Guest
Yes, that is how it should work in an ideal world. But in the real world, things don't always follow the voice of reason.
DeletedUser4843
Guest
The downgrade of the effect of the Lighthouse and Bell Tower AW that followed the version 3.19 'upgrade'.
You may not be aware of this, because many of the posts complaining about it have been deleted.
Timneh
Artisan
I am in no way implying this about all people that are mods on forums but i think a few of them do it to have a little bit of power over others. Overall i think most of them do a good job for little or no thanks. It must make their jobs even harder when the real powers behind the forums do not and will not take notice of what the members are saying especially when it is feedback on something that they have introduced. The deleting of posts in threads for being off topic although still linked to what is being discussed is what i mean when i say that some mods get a little power crazy. The thing about this forum is that it does have a place in the support section where you can report mods for not doing their job correctly but sometimes your complaint will go to one of the mods you are complaining about, that is a conflict of interests and it should not be allowed to happen. Just another thing that Inno can't get right.
DeletedUser1772
Guest
Of course you have the right to your opinion and I will state mine which disagrees with yours. None of the Mods have more power over the other. They are all the same (unfortunate) bottom of the food chain. If they gain more power, they are no longer called Mod but... dunno... UberMod...?
And read what you wrote yourself. You condemn Mods for deleting posts that are "off topic"? It does not matter the off bit is linked to the topic, it is off. There are rather rigorous rules for Mods what to allow and what not. If they don't stick to the rules to the dot, but allow for some digressions... where and when do they draw the line?
Seriously... everyone complaining about Mods... you think you can do a better job, please do apply for the position. Personally I am getting rather tired of the ingame prompts about them 'seeking you'. Sacrifice your (free) time to do the difficult job of being the messenger (and everyone shoots the messenger), be the person who on top of trying to do the best they can, needs to take all the crap from players who find it a daily high to complain about everything.
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Timneh
Artisan
I think you misunderstood what i meant or maybe i did not explain myself right. I did not mean they wanted to have more power than other mods but more power than the normal members. I hope this clears that up>
I have been a mod before(not here) but gave it up because i can not defend things that i do not believe in or things that i do not think are right. The way that Innogames treat the players of thier games (or at least this one) with disrespect and contempt is not something i could keep quiet about so being a mod here is not something i would ever even consider.
Timneh
Artisan
When the off bit is connected to the topic and being used to make a point it should be allowed. Mods need to use a bit of common sense, just don't let these things take the thread off at a tangent and there should be no problem.
DeletedUser4528
Guest
Every post is read, every suggestion considered, and every moan and gripe are studied. The development staff create the game, and the players and us mods are who make the community and play the game.
We do gets lots of info from the developers, passed through the management structure that is in place . Some things we can tell you about, some things we can not. That is the same with any company I think.
There is certainly a long term plan, for without those there is no game, but the best projections in the world can sometimes be wrong, and when that happens they have to be corrected. There were several reasons that the AW was changed, all different in their nature, but together they made up the reasons that the developers took, in the way that they took it.
One of the main reasons that the AW was changed, is that it was too strong, and the rewards were too high. So some players were getting far more than was ever imagined. The mobile app is being tested in the UK and France, and the visits to neighbours take around 1 to 1.5 seconds each, so you can easily work out that the small number of people (and yes, it was very small) spending such a long time every day doing visits was going to shoot through the roof.
If an idea does not work, or go to plan , the development staff will change it, and nothing in the game is ever set in stone. So please, air your opinion, but do so in a civil and respectful way, some of you have been getting out of line recently. We are people like you all are.
The forum is a huge resource and the staff are very few. Lizzie does an awesome job running things, and even though I am a game mod, I will do all I can to help.
Timneh
Artisan
Sorry but i don't believe that. The devs are the ones that made that AW the way it was so they must have known what it would be like, Timon even boasted about it in a live Q&A.
DeletedUser4528
Guest
You have the choice to believe it, or not believe it. That is your prerogative.
Pauly7
Master of the Elements
Thank you Shamy.
This is certainly the first step towards a constructive and more honest answer about what has happened here even though it kind of flies in the face of the only official InnoGames statement to date.
Had Marindor's statement used words more akin to this (which was what most people realised from day one anyway) then the storm which is raging now would have been smaller, even though it may still be a storm.
It doesn't answer all of my personal concerns. A statement more along these lines should have been issued as an in-game announcement to all owners of this ancient wonder. There is also very legitimate bad feeling about the KP that has been invested by players based on what was promised from this AW. This should still be addressed.
Globally, my point still remains about the lack of response to players' questions, concerns and gripes. I realise that this organisation is probably not set up with the right staffing levels to get involved in every single conversation. Equally, not every conversation requires intervention, but if something in the suggestions forum has been raised and backed up by many people, then Inno should be equipped to give their views on the matter. To make a customer feel as if they have no voice is never a useful strategy. On a personal note, for example, I have had a post in the bug reporting forum regarding things that don't appear to be functioning correctly with the mobile app for over a week now and it still hasn't attracted a reply.
If truly the developers are reading what is said in this forum then I hope they are now taking note of what happens when people get no response or when poorly thought out statements are issued in an attempt to sweep a problem under the carpet. I don't know whether they authorised you to say what you did, but if not I hope they will also look at that as what would have been a much better way to handle this.
Timneh
Artisan
In a way they are set up for it. Muf-Muf admitted that it is his job to forward concerns from players and get answers to questions that are asked in the forum but so far he has not said one word on this subject.
DeletedUser4528
Guest
Yes, I was authorised to make this statement, and looking forward, we can all learn a great deal from the last week or so, and employ this moving forwards.
You made some very constructive and valid points, and these are certainly how we would like to see discussions take place. Moving forward, I have voiced my opinions internally on this subject, and whilst i can not share that at this time, I will say it is from a players perspective. That is my role both in support, and on the forum.
As for your post on the mobile issues, I will take a good read through those tomorrow , and see if I can shed any light on any posts that got missed.
As for Muf Muf, what can I say, what can I say, OMG, oh , ,, wait, Muf Muf has gone to the knee knockers convention for knock knee knocker society in Knocksville. Either that or a beach somewhere, but he will return.
DeletedUser
Guest
If this was one of the main reasons for the change, then this is what should have been told to the players in the release notes. Trying to pass it off as a way to increase neighborly help and that the rewards were increasing which any player who has upgraded and uses this wonder could see was obviously not true was a bad way to go. Players still would not have liked it, but I don't think it would have generated the anger that the change as caused so far.
On the merits of this wonder being to strong, I tend to agree for the following reasons.
1) The developers have been making changes to the game to discourage what they view as over exploring.
2) The previous change made this wonder give out goods based on the number of provinces scouted ( encouraging more scouting for better reward ).
3) The much higher reward in goods caused by the change in #2 just made it much easier to bribe your way through more provinces.
The previous update created a loop that just keeps feeding itself to encourage and make province exploration much easier than I'm sure the mods intended all without the culture and population requirement that would be needed to produce that amount of goods with manufactories.
Again, being honest about the reasoning for the change, "game balance", would be much better than trying to disguise it as like a snake oil salesman.
DeletedUser1772
Guest
So if I took your post, shred it to pieces, reply every single point you are making and counter it, while being disrespectful and rude to you, and even call you names...? Each of my points would still be related to the topic (Listening to your Customer)... You think such a post should not be removed by the Mods?
Just to be clear, I am not suggesting I would actually do the above. no reason for it! I am also not saying that deleted posts got to the severity of what I list above. I am simply trying to make the point that rules are in place for a reason and should be followed, or else where and when do the Mods draw the line (at what point it becomes too much?). As also said before.