KP balance improvements

[Far Reach]

These suggestions are inspired by the discussion thread about the recent introduction of KP balances along with Rune-shard changes.


1) Instead of counting kp donations against the balance of the recipient immediately, defer this until the AW is upgraded.

This change means the recipient will never be disadvantaged by unsolicited donations into AWs which they don't intend to level further.


2) When a player upgrades a wonder, report their kp balance back to them. For example: "Your people are happy with your fair trading, and come willingly to assist with the upgrading of this great wonder. Your new balance is xxxxx".

This gives the player a periodic awareness of their kp balance.


3) Instead of preventing donations, having a negative kp balance instead prevents the player from upgrading their Wonders.

This is probably a stronger deterrent, but hides from other players that an individual has a negative balance. It also allows the affected player and their wonders to remain involved in Fellowship KP sharing schemes.


4) Be clear about the intended effect on those who invest in other player's AWs with the aim of making a profit (via reward chests). If there is not an intention to penalise these players then cap the maximum kp balance deficit which they get from a reward chest to the size of their corresponding donation.

This addresses ambiguity about the effect of the change on KP investors.

 

[Solanix]

@Far Reach, I think those players fishing KP for their Ancient Wonders are well aware that they are adding more to their Ancient Wonders than to those of other players. Stopping them from upgrading their Ancient Wonders has the same effect as stopping them from adding KPs: They will be stuck at one point. If this happens sooner or later does not matter; they will still be upset.

We have many threads on this forum where people complain about KP fishing. They might be happier now that this KP fishing is not as beneficial as before. There is hope that things will calm down eventually. All the current upset is caused because the game was made more balanced, and there are fewer possibilities to work around this balance.

 

[OldHag]

@Solanix How about addressing the rest of @Far Reach suggestion. start from the top.

 

[FieryArien]

@Solanix, it seems to me that Far Reach’s idea doesn’t aim the players you speak about. Those would get into “trouble” just as they are now. From what I see in the suggestion it’s kind of protecting the other people.

@Far Reach, these are interesting ideas. They indeed address some new problems we now have with the new system, I like that. There is one thing I need to get clarified: so let’s say I upgraded my wonder and I got into red numbers. What are my options to get back to positive balance? There is I suppose the small daily allowance still in function. But other than that? Am I then fully at mercy of other player(s) upgrading wonder(s) I contributed/am contributing to?

 

[Solanix]

@OldHag, are you talking about this permanent reporting back to the player or moving the cap from donating to upgrading?

 

[Far Reach]

@Far Reach, I think those players fishing KP for their Ancient Wonders are well aware that they are adding more to their Ancient Wonders than to those of other players. Stopping them from upgrading their Ancient Wonders has the same effect as stopping them from adding KPs: They will be stuck at one point. If this happens sooner or later does not matter; they will still be upset.

We have many threads on this forum where people complain about KP fishing. They might be happier now that this KP fishing is not as beneficial as before. There is hope that things will calm down eventually. All the current upset is caused because the game was made more balanced, and there are fewer possibilities to work around this balance.

Thank you for your response. I think that you might have slightly misunderstood the thrust of my suggestions though. They aren't specifically focussed on KP fishing. I was attempting to address the principal areas of complaint in the feedback thread. (I didn't actually read the debate about KP fishing as central to that.)

Simply put, as @CrazyWizard said, and as @Sir Derf has been implying with mathematics, it IS an Anti Push Feature! Unless you are hardcore Pushing, you should not really come across this limit as it tends to cancel out if KP Donations are fair and above board between players

The above quote about the KP balance feature (which was taken from the RuneShards thread when it was still in Beta) led me to believe that aspects of the feature weren't working quite as intended by the Developers. The ideas above are potential ways to fix these aspects whilst maintaining the core anti-pushing property. Obviously if the devs also aimed to reduce KP fishing (for example) then that one of my suggestions isn't likely to fly.

 

[OldHag]

@Solanix -
it's a bit of a rare event to see a mod post on an idea or suggestion thread.

But I would have liked to see you comment on the idea in general, particularly the part about informing players of their kp balance in/out (number 2)

I did suggest some kind of visible icon, either a set of scales, a meter, a bar or whatever Inno can come up with, to give players a rough idea on their balance without showing actual numbers. Similar to @Far Reach suggestion.

I think that has to be better then having some players being locked out of their aws, particularly being that a lot of those people whom are locked out of being able to upgrade their aws have done nothing wrong.

I myself am currently locked out of being able to upgrade my aws, I'm guessing due to the 2 separate donations from fs mates for a total of 983kps on Day 2 of this new feature. I've tried rectifying this by donating small amounts (max 45kp) to other players, that did work for a day, then I received 80kp doing a 0 sum - then went back into the red and was unable to cover all the chests in my 0 sum.

I cleared the deficit a 3rd time and today I'm back in the red again and all I'm doing at the moment is 0 sums. No swaps, no donations, but still locked out.

I'm sure there are much better ways to stop push accounts without punishing the players who don't cheat.

p.s I forgot to mention I do happen to really like the new feature of being able to use Rune Shards in this way, but there is certainly room for improvement, imo.

 

[Solanix]

@OldHag, what would a warning help you when somebody donates tons of KP to your AWs? It would not stop them from doing so? This will all calm down over time, mainly when everybody starts looking after the other players and not only after themselves. Is it not always a question of time when new features get introduced?

 

[Stucon]

I have noticed some cooling down on my FS over the last couple of days. Seems less frantic and more measured ... or it's simply not the weekend so there are fewer people about!

 

[C-Nymph]

This will all calm down over time, mainly when everybody starts looking after the other players and not only after themselves.

Did you just plainly insult all players by calling them selfish...?

 

[Solanix]

@C-Nymph, nothing would be less in my mind than doing that. Our players are, in general excellent, which makes it more confusing that things are going a bit wrong at the moment.

 

[OldHag]

@OldHag, what would a warning help you when somebody donates tons of KP to your AWs? It would not stop them from doing so?

I don't think of it as a warning, more as an important piece of info about your city status.

@OldHag, This will all calm down over time, mainly when everybody starts looking after the other players and not only after themselves.

How very noble. I like you @Solanix but I don't like Inno speak. That says to me like it or lump it, pretty much the same as the tournament formulae change discussion.

 

[Killiak]

How very noble. I like you @Solanix but I don't like Inno speak. That says to me like it or lump it, pretty much the same as the tournament formulae change discussion.

You'll never see any meaningful changes to the game's structure and formula's. The best you will ever get is QoL updates (quality of life), like overflow now working for FA badges, extended notifications with tabs, and/or being able to run all your productions with a single click.

Are these things nice to have? Yes, they certainly are! It helps in playing the game, speed things up a bit. I will not deny that it is great that these suggestions are listened to, even if takes a loooong time for them to be implemented.

But back on track; Inno has never, ever, changed anything meaningful in the big updates, the big formula's, the large changes. This post explains why. Not only is the game planned out for years to come, suggestions are only sparsely forwarded. Only a select few make the cut, various forums have very different ways of selecting them (EN forum has no vote, and no feedback on that) and even then there is no guarantee they are picked up by the Dev team.

Tl;dr: You are right. It's always like it or lump it. Has been this way for years.

 

[Lil Elfette]

Shame that there isn't a direct root to the DT for these suggestions, could a thread for them be added here perhaps, in the forum or maybe an email address to send suggestions too, I for one would like that very much, even if my ideas do not make the cut it would be good to know that they were read at least by someone who could make a decision and infact use them for the betterment of our game

Sorry to butt in, apologies

 

[Jake65]

Shame that there isn't a direct root to the DT for these suggestions, could a thread for them be added here perhaps, in the forum or maybe an email address to send suggestions too, I for one would like that very much, even if my ideas do not make the cut it would be good to know that they were read at least by someone who could make a decision and infact use them for the betterment of our game

Sorry to butt in, apologies

There's a link in Killiak's post above that gives some explanation regarding how suggestions are handled. Click "This Post" in their message. It's a long read, make tea first.

 

[Silmaril]

@Lil Elfette This is why all moderators pass every new idea and suggestion back to myself and why we have a whole section on the Forum for idea's and suggestions