Imbalance in Tournaments

[forictori]

Quick question.

Does InnoGames planning on making the late game players just observers to the Tournaments? Seems to me that in the new Chapter there's instead of balancing a major imbalancing...
The tournament-ing is one of the principal aspects of the game, if you (dear InnoGames) kill that for the late game, you will lose many players who have stuck around here for quite a while. Thanks for the time.

kind regards,
forictori.

Just to add a postscript.

Don't get me wrong, I don't whine. I can afford to spend few extra hours to smash those creeps in the Provinces. But I am just concerned about the other players who will be working on the latest Chapter and be as well doing Tourneys.

 

[DeletedUser]

Waiting with interest to find out the answer to this question, as someone who has been playing for over 2.5 years anything which makes tournaments harder will be the quickest way ever to see me quit.

Its quite ironic that we've been waiting months for Elementals to arrive during which time we've been told its so that more people will be in the right place for the release, however if this imbalance is rolled out then the numbers will drop further than they have already and what is the point of waiting for months then?

 

[Lelanya]

Yes this goes on tandem with a post I made on News from Beta. Will this make it possible for top players to fight in the provinces again?

 

[LazyTony]

Scrolls is certainly one of the hardest tourneys. They won't all be as bad as this week.

But yes, 3 mandatory squad techs and no barracks upgrade in elementals will make tourneys much much harder for those in late game. As it stands, before anyone progresses to elementals on live servers it is much much easier to score 2, 3, 4k points for low chapter players. This imbalance is about to get more imbalanced.

I understand that most of the game is running to stand still. However, with elementals we might run out of breath and go backwards

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes this goes on tandem with a post I made on News from Beta. Will this make it possible for top players to fight in the provinces again?

I doubt I'll ever be able to fight on the world map again, clearing 447 provinces with another 21 which are scouted but not cleared has put paid to that, however I fight in tournaments which has worked out just fine up to now as scouting is in excess of 85 hours which gives me plenty of time to gather the needed goods to negotiate, and then I can save my troops for the tournament.

If Inno changes the way the tournament works for the top players then I'll have to reconsider whether or not to continue playing as they're a major part of the game for me. I can't think that I'll be alone with this.

 

[forictori]

I totally feel you Lisica. You guys know me and seen my city, as a buyer I've got the chance to have plenty of Manufactories and produce in massive quantities of goods. This increase of catering costs and harder fights won't hinder me from achieving the my regular Tournament score. However what really bothers me is the outcome for the rest of the players. For non-buyers it would be real tough to hold any high positions and maintain a good tournament performance. And as Tony is saying the new Chapter will squeeze the most the late game players.
That will most definitely drive players away, because it is Tournaments what we do when we get done with Chapters.
With all due respect dear InnoGames you should definitely review the tech Tree and the mandatory SS. I hope you get my point, I don't want to remain competing with 2 months old accounts who will probably quit in two more months. I want players with experience, who have been here for years..... I really hope you heed our outcry and consider changes.

Kinds regards,

 

[LazyTony]

I'd love some moderator feedback on this. As fori says, those of us that have completed the tech tree only play regularly for tourneys. This a game ender for some.

 

[forictori]

I think Forictori you are misplacing balancing thoughts with other players learning. You are suddenly not getting first in every tournament and feel the need to blame something. Understandable, however you had a way longer run than you should have and need to realize that getting first in such a big field requires preparation. You can go for top 10 every tournament but not first, and I think Inno has started getting it right, not wrong.

HI Mickeymano,

Look, sorry if I have confused you, but my post is not about the need to blame something about not getting first in every Tournament, actually if you check my city's name out, you can find out the reason of why I'm not doing good on the Tournaments atm, I prefer to stay focused on RL for the moment.
And to clarify, my post is about that higher ranked players do not stand as good chance to perform well on Tourneys as lower level players do.

regards,

 

[DeletedUser6458]

HI Mickeymano,

Look, sorry if I have confused you, but my post is not about the need to blame something about not getting first in every Tournament, actually if you check my city's name out, you can find out the reason of why I'm not doing good on the Tournaments atm, I prefer to stay focused on RL for the moment.
And to clarify, my post is about that higher ranked players do not stand as good chance to perform well on Tourneys as lower level players do.

regards,

So you are saying you could still be getting first every tourney if you had the time and still hold to this claim that higher level players have a harder time, confusing sentiment... LazyTony was agreeing with this imbalance perception and both of you are getting top 5 nearly every week. I don't see any low level players in top 5 every week, so the imbalance still seems to be in the higher ranked players favor.

 

[LazyTony]

I looked up the last 4 tourneys on elven stats. I think you just recognise certain names and not others Mickey.

Number of players in top 10 below 100k points:

Silk ending 14/04 - 6
Scolls ending 07/04 - 8
Crystal 31/03 - 3
Planks 24/03 - 5

All 4 of the last 1st places are by below 100k players.

You can look it up on Elven stats.

 

[DeletedUser3337]

I do not think you should take accounts in to account that are used to transfer KP and barely show growth.
These small accounts are present in the top 10:
Silk ending - 3
Scrolls ending - 6!
Crystal ending - 2
Planks ending - 2
And than there are 2 accounts each week that benifit in this way, so not sure if they represent a certain group in a correct way.
It surely colors the perspective diffently, no?
This is what stats do not show you, I am afraid.

 

[LazyTony]

On what basis should some accounts be excluded? The point is that its easier for low chapter accounts to score big than later ones. Any comparison between those 2 groups is valid, removing certain members of a group is arbitrary. Are they in a low chapter? Did they score a lot? Then it counts. Players at the end of elementals have nothing except tourneys to spend their resources on, and players at lower chapters that choose to spend all their resources on tourneys are a valid comparison.

 

[Killiak]

I would really appreciate if we would NOT contaminate this specific discussion with the "pushing"-discussion.

FACT of the matter is that lower chapter accounts whom are ignoring optional SS tech are in a far better position cost-wise on tournaments than players in Elementals, who got some hefty mandatory tech upgrades. On the beta/us forum, SoggyShorts has stated that he is now at 20% lower effectiveness in tournaments because of it.

Let's all just recognize that this is an imbalance and that the current form of the tournament is actually negatively impacted by researching those techs. It NEEDS a fix.

 

[DeletedUser6458]

I looked up the last 4 tourneys on elven stats. I think you just recognise certain names and not others Mickey.

Number of players in top 10 below 100k points:

Silk ending 14/04 - 6
Scolls ending 07/04 - 8
Crystal 31/03 - 3
Planks 24/03 - 5

All 4 of the last 1st places are by below 100k players.

You can look it up on Elven stats.

what you are not considering though is that they are not the same low level accounts always showing up in high tournament rankings like the higher ranked players are. They may be able to do one big tourney a month but then they need time to replenish where us bigger accounts are pumping out these points every week. If the bigger accounts actually stopped for 3 weeks and built up they would be able to do way more. There are a few who are consistently getting high tourney ranks and are low level but not many and not very low level as they would not even have enough provinces open to compete with the high ranking players. In my opinion this imbalance perception is just all out wrong. All those stats prove is that there are alot more players under 100k than over and we all know this already. There are simply good tourney players and not good tourney players. Inno has done a very good job balancing the equation to give lower levels a small chance at placing well.

 

[m4rt1n]

I have to disagree with your last point, the tournaments are not balanced at all for players who have taken every optional squad upgrade. I play every week manual fighting, and catering and know for a fact my maximum tourney score has dropped from 3500 to 2500 over the last 6 months due to the fights becoming much more difficult with the addition of opponent fighters from the mercenary camp, while I am no where near getting them even unlocked.

 

[DeletedUser6458]

I have to disagree with your last point, the tournaments are not balanced at all for players who have taken every optional squad upgrade. I play every week manual fighting, and catering and know for a fact my maximum tourney score has dropped from 3500 to 2500 over the last 6 months due to the fights becoming much more difficult with the addition of opponent fighters from the mercenary camp, while I am no where near getting them even unlocked.

but what are you doing to balance? What are you doing to improve your situation? I have already stated I am doing better at end of elementals than before, but if I wasn't upgrading my battle AW's that would not be the case. Just because your situation is one way does not say that the entire setup is that way. People seem to be of such narrow mind in their opinions that I guess they are assuming I am just crazy but I see what see. Tourneys ARE easier for me after 4 additional upgrade sizes in 3 months. The fights are harder, but I am more prepared and able to deal with it now.

 

[m4rt1n]

but what are you doing to balance? What are you doing to improve your situation? I have already stated I am doing better at end of elementals than before, but if I wasn't upgrading my battle AW's that would not be the case. Just because your situation is one way does not say that the entire setup is that way. People seem to be of such narrow mind in their opinions that I guess they are assuming I am just crazy but I see what see. Tourneys ARE easier for me after 4 additional upgrade sizes in 3 months. The fights are harder, but I am more prepared and able to deal with it now.

Have you taken every available squad size upgrade in the tech tree?
That will make a difference (BIG) in my experience of the game after a year playing and participating in the weekly tournaments.

We are not all narrow minded either on the forum, I hope not anyway.

 

[LazyTony]

The 4 1st places are the same account. The account has no martial wonders at all. We will just have to agree to disagree, I know its easier to create a low chapter tourney account and score highly week after week than it is to do the same at higher chapters. It shouldn't be so.

 

[Killiak]

People seem to be of such narrow mind in their opinions that I guess they are assuming I am just crazy but I see what see.

I'll take the word of the math guys at Beta over your personal anecdote any day.

Especially since you bring no argument or calculation, other than an insult.

 

[Lelanya]

I think Mickey has hit on the key with his battle Wonders. I too level mine after a SS upgrade and it helps me.
But Fori has already done that. The man does not win tourney from that but from spending bucket loads of time in front of his PC manual fighting. RL permitting ofc
Ah but perhaps there is some kind of mistake? I hear the same from other Elementals and we need to get this sorted out